Thread: Mahmoud Reda Tour - Low Enrollments?

I've heard that many of the locations that are hosting Mahmoud Reda on this year's tour are seeing low signups, as few as 15 people in some places. (But I also heard that Madison had a great turnout this past weekend.)

I'm surprised, and disappointed, that people aren't taking advantage of this opportunity to study with a world-famous master choreographer and instructor. Even if you don't choose to perform in his style, I've noticed there's a lot to learn from a Reda workshop.

• By analyzing the structure of his choreographies, you can get insight into how to adapt the energy of your dance to the varying energy levels of the music.
• By analyzing his choreographies, you can get an idea of how to make a dance that is pleasing to watch by using a collection of moves that are actually fairly simple. He doesn't need high-drama moves and props - he creates interesting dances from a reasonably finite set of building blocks.
• By studying how he structures his workshops (warmup, go-across-the-floor, choreography) you can pick up ideas for dance pedagogy.

Why aren't people going? Has interest in him become saturated in the towns that have hosted him before?

hmm I didn't hear about that but my friend and I are flying to CT from FL just to study with him, and spending an extra two nights there so we can make sure to absorb it all. Sad to hear that though

Certainly the economy is part of the problem. It can be quite expensive to go to an out-of-town workshop, and money is tight. If students are dropping out of weekly classes to conserve finances, it's not surprising they're not looking to shell out money for an expensive workshop AND hotel AND transportation costs, even if the instructor is amazing.

The belly dancing fad has peaked. If you wandered away from MED to study pole dancing and Zumba, you probably don't care about workshops any longer.

The Reda style itself has peaked in popularity. I don't have a sense that any one single thing is really hot in the dance community right now, but Reda-style folkloric choreographies aren't high on the list. I think to a lot of students, that style feels very dated. Been there, done that. Come back in another decade when those choreographies can hop unabashedly on the "retro" bandwagon.

Some people are just stupid. Apparently there are imbeciles* out there who think they can learn everything Ustaz Reda has to teach in one day, so why should they come back to learn it again? Very few teachers can pull in good numbers for repeat attendances, no matter how famous they are. It's one thing if you take a workshop and think, "This really wasn't me," but there seem to be a lot of students thinking, "Checked that box and put that teacher's name on my resume. Next!" Don't get me started on misplaced budget priorities regarding education vs. costumes.

I do wish Ustaz Reda would mix up his itinerary a little. He keeps going to the same places, and they're still as inconvenient to the people they were inconvenient to now as they were the last time. Obviously, new sponsors aren't dying to jump into the deep end if the word's going around that he can only pull in fifteen folks per stop, though. Maybe they need to upend the marketing strategy. I'd have been way more interested in rearranging my life and spending a ton of money if I thought I could have been person #16 in a large, semi-private lesson, than I would have to think I could have been swimming in a crowd of 100, which was closer to the attendance he pulled the last time he was within driving distance of where I'm at (almost a decade ago).

* I'm talking about people who claim to be interested in the Reda style, not dancers from other styles who just wanted a taste of what he was about.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I'm surprised, and disappointed, that people aren't taking advantage of this opportunity to study with a world-famous master choreographer and instructor.

Well, almost everybody I know has already been to one workshop with him, and I think most people who AREN'T into his style think once is enough.

The economy is in the toilet right now, and I know I'm not the only one pinching pennies when it comes to workshops. That's probably the biggest reason. I had planned on going to the Atlanta workshop last weekend, but they moved the date and that screwed it up for me.

Even if you don't choose to perform in his style, I've noticed there's a lot to learn from a Reda workshop.

True -- BUT, there are a lot of people out there now teaching his "method" -- if you want to call it that -- and I don't think there is near as much interest in his work NOW, as there was when everybody thought it was real folklore, and there were only a handful of Egyptians actually touring the US.

By analyzing the structure of his choreographies, you can get insight into how to adapt the energy of your dance to the varying energy levels of the music.

Yes but how many other people are also teaching this? Energy patterns and use of energy is a common workshop topic 'round the midwest/south. Bahaia, Amaya, Ranya Renee -- they've all done in-depth workshops on the same thing.

By analyzing his choreographies, you can get an idea of how to make a dance that is pleasing to watch by using a collection of moves that are actually fairly simple. He doesn't need high-drama moves and props - he creates interesting dances from a reasonably finite set of building blocks.

Yes but this is nothing new, at least for around my area. K*I*S*S is also a common workshop topic.

By studying how he structures his workshops (warmup, go-across-the-floor, choreography) you can pick up ideas for dance pedagogy.

That's not enough to warrant the price, for me anyway.

Why aren't people going?

1. Money
2. Lack of interest
3. Saturation is a possibility.
4. Dancers feeling of a lack of relevance to their own style? I can't see Tribal dancers getting all excited about a workshop with him, any more than I an get uber excited about a workshop with Carolena.
5. Would rather spend the money on real folkloric workshops.

?? Just a thought.

I'm going! And I have to drive [S]5[/S] 6.5 hours to get there. I don't mind though. I figure we only have a few (if that) years left with him touring the US and I don't want to miss it!

ETA: Just looked it up on Google and it will take 6.5 hours!

Originally Posted by aziyade

The economy is in the toilet right now, and I know I'm not the only one pinching pennies when it comes to workshops. That's probably the biggest reason.

He's coming to Denver, which is within my traveling area, and I'd love to take his class, but I only have so much time and energy. It's the same month I'm taking Amaya's Wise Woman Retreat so money is definitely in short supply. And we're still paying off our June CA vacation.

So, I agree with Aziyade about why attendance is low.

Edna

Madison had ninety people show up for both days. He hasn't been here for probably 15 years, so he got

(a) his Iowa diehards who love him
(b) Chicagoans who drove to Madison, closer to them than Iowa city
(c) Twin Cities dancers ditto

So yes, I think that if somebody in a less-usual geographical location hosts him, they will get a pretty good turnout.

As far as the economy goes... well, I was vending at the workshop and did very well indeed. I talked to a couple of the other vendors and they ALSO had a good weekend.

I went last year and it was a nice experience, but I originally decided not to go this year because the price of the workshop and the price and time of traveling to CT are not worth what I get out of a class with 100+ people where I can barely see what he is doing.

I don't regret doing it the first time, and I would come back in the future, just not that soon (just a year) after the first time.

With that said, I recently decided to give it a second thought since I heard the class will not be as full. So I actually probably will be going, but I would not go again otherwise... not yet at least.

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

I went last year and it was a nice experience, but I originally decided not to go this year because the price of the workshop and the price and time of traveling to CT are not worth what I get out of a class with 100+ people where I can barely see what he is doing.

I don't regret doing it the first time, and I would come back in the future, just not that soon (just a year) after the first time.

With that said, I recently decided to give it a second thought since I heard the class will not be as full. So I actually probably will be going, but I would not go again otherwise... not yet at least.

the ones in CT that my friend and I are going to were closed off at about 25 students and we were given the option to do a private class with him on Thursday as well. So it was a pretty good deal

For my part, I'm actually dying to go, especially as I've never been to one of his workshops but have heard and read so much about him and been exposed to a "taste" of his style (e.g. through Sahra's Journey Through Egypt workshops).

But sadly, I just can't afford it right now. At the moment it's a stretch for me to even go to any of the workshops that are happening in my area; I have to carefully select the ones I most want to do, out of a very good selection of tempting offerings. Adding on to that plane fare to get to another city, plus a place to stay, just knocks it out of consideration.

I will certainly be taking any opportunity I can to study with him. I think he is someone who everyone who has an interest in Egyptian dance will want to study with *once* but not again unless they adore him/his style. I mean, he's so influential. It would be like a ballet dancer taking a workshop with Balanchine - you'd want to even if you knew you were never going to be in his company or even loved his style above all, just so you could say you did.

I had plans to go see him in Madison, but when I heard how huge it was going to be, I decided not to. Funds aren't good right now, so to commit hundreds of $$$ to barely be able to see him on the other side of a huge ballroom- wasn't worth my precious workshop funds, in my opinion- especially since my husband would've had to take off of work for me to go out of town, and it wasn't a good time for him to take PTO.

Interesting comments from those of you who talked about people perhaps doing one-time classes with him just so they can tick off a box. I do think you're correct, that that's what some people do.

I've personally never been of that mind set - I'll cheerfully take the same workshop more than once if I found it valuable the first time as a way of deepening my understanding of the topic. I find that each time I re-take the workshop, I pick up new things that I missed on previous times. Sometimes it's because the instructor injects new comments/insights, but even if they're identical each time, I find that the more foundation I already know on the topic, the more nuances I absorb the next time I hear it. That's also while I'll buy a DVD from the workshop instructor to work with at home.

Of course, I've been to many workshops in which I thought once was quite enough, but those were situations where the material just didn't resonate with me as something I wanted a deeper understanding of.

In the case of Mahmoud Reda, I think a lot of people look at the point of choreography workshops being to learn the choreography, whatever it may be, so they can go off and perform it, which is fine. However, I think a lot of people don't really think in terms of how they might be able to convert the classroom experience of learning that choreo into a deeper knowledge of technique, transitions, musicality, etc. I know I used to not think of choreo workshops as being anything more than the choreo itself. Anyway, for such people, they may think, "Well, I wasn't overly fond of the choreo last time, or it wasn't my style, so I'm not in the mood to learn another."

At the end of the day the guy is a legend who has influenced and shaped Egyptian dance both past and present.

It might seem an appropriate/inappropriate thing to say, but Mahmoud Reda is in his 80's and may not always been willing to cross the Atlantic to teach students. If it is a toss between him and someone you can access more regularly then it might be worth a serious think.

In addition to the above reasons, lower enrollement may also be because he's now so accessible. You only need to search for his name online to find tons of resources, so if you're simply looking for Reda-style combinations or chunks of choreography in the style, it's "not necessary" to go to the workshop (esp if you've studied with him before and are looking for a refresher).

I've studied with Master Reda several times, both in Egypt and in CA (plus I have access to local Reda progeny). I went last year to San Diego for him, but even though the same sponsor is hosting him this year (again on my son's birthday weekend) I think this fall my road trip will be for Yousry, with whom I've only had the chance to study with once (in part because his workshop was more challenging than any I've ever taken). Reda's workshops last year were packed (more crowded than the classes in Cairo even), and yet students wasted more time talking and futzin around than I could bear to tolerate again. Of course, were Master Reda to teach a local master class with restricted enrollment I could easily be swayed...

I went last year and will go again this year!

For me it's a choice of how to use a summer vacation. I have a few things which are still in the air about what to do that week, and depending on which I choose, I may go. but then again, I have a free airline ticket which is about to expire and I need to figure that out!

August is vacation month for many people. So there is that, too.

{{{HUGS}}}

I really think the economy has a lot to do with it, on many levels...
I'll be there because its an opportunity I can't miss :) I love studying with him.

Yay Zana, I'll be at Reda in CT this weekend as well - I think we'll be able to meet with only 25 people there! I am so excited for this workshop and the chance to study with him in a small group!!!

A few other reasons I can think of that people might not go to his workshop -
1. They are SO crowded - like Nasila, I've studied with him in group classes in the US and Cairo and studied with him privately in Cairo. Having 100 people in a room and trying to see him, hear him, etc is really difficult. Plus, people are very rude and would actually have conversations while he was talking - it was infuriating! If I wasn't into him, once would be enough for me. (But of course I understand sponsors and how they need to break even and have a lot of people there.)

2. You would be amazed at how many dancers in the US don't know who Mahmoud Reda is, and why he is important. My teacher and myself are the only people in the Greater Philadelphia area, as far as I know, that teach or discuss Reda style and we do his across the floor patterns and choreographies. When I say I incorporate Reda technique in my classes, most people (including instructors) look at me and say "Huh?!"

Don't buy a costume go to Reda workshop ! sell a costume go to Reda workshop !if you get a gig save your money and go to Reda workshop! he is the foundation of egyptian dance!

I'm fascinated intellectually by Reda technique, even though I'm not really "into" it personally with my own dancing, but I'm wondering if the question for some people isn't

Reda vrs Other Big Name Egyptian

??

I've been in huge classes with Tito, but I'd gladly go back and take a workshop with him, just to watch and study how he moves and interprets the music. I actually got a lot out of just WATCHING him, but Tito's got a style I really enjoy. If it came down to a repeat workshop for either Tito or Reda, I'd choose Tito because he more represents how I hear the music.

Does that make me a heretic?

Originally Posted by aziyade

I'm fascinated intellectually by Reda technique, even though I'm not really "into" it personally with my own dancing, but I'm wondering if the question for some people isn't

Reda vrs Other Big Name Egyptian

??

I've been in huge classes with Tito, but I'd gladly go back and take a workshop with him, just to watch and study how he moves and interprets the music. I actually got a lot out of just WATCHING him, but Tito's got a style I really enjoy. If it came down to a repeat workshop for either Tito or Reda, I'd choose Tito because he more represents how I hear the music.

Does that make me a heretic?

That makes a lot of sense to me.

But where I live, the question isn't Reda vs. Big Name Egyptian. The last Big Name Egyptian in my town was Yousry Sharif and that was a couple years ago. (And guess what? I would pick Reda. )

The number of workshops available has been skyrocketing over the years, certainly. For me sometimes more make my budget via the location of the teachers. This year I was lucky enough to have both Ranya Renee in my town AND Reda, and the reason I could afford both was because I didn't have to pay for a hotel to see them both.

I would guess that if you're somewhere that has the Big Names within two hours' drive many times a year, instead of rarely, you really pick and choose carefully, right?

Originally Posted by tigerb

The number of workshops available has been skyrocketing over the years, certainly. For me sometimes more make my budget via the location of the teachers.

It's not like that everywhere. We used to have a sponsor who was putting on almost a workshop a month five years ago, and she's scaled way back. Fewer events, fewer two-day workshops, more small-name teachers when she does sponsor. Other teachers went from sponsoring a couple of events a year down to one, or dropped out of the game entirely. There are still plenty of dancers who consider themselves "active" locally, but not all of them want the same teachers (tribal vs. not-tribal), and people often skip events they otherwise would have attended, because they don't have the budget for it now.

My excuse is that the CT workshop is sold out and I couldn't find anyone from Boston-area who was going to share a room and carpool. I don't have the money to fly to another area of the country and pay for a hotel on top of the workshops.

Most people are still hurting in this economy and having to make very careful choices on what workshops they take.

Originally Posted by indigostars

I don't have the money to fly to another area of the country and pay for a hotel on top of the workshops.

That's a huge factor for me too -- the workshop could be as low as $50 but if the hotel bill/gas bill is closer to $400 for the weekend ... well, that one might be right out.

Originally Posted by indigostars

My excuse is that the CT workshop is sold out and I couldn't find anyone from Boston-area who was going to share a room and carpool. I don't have the money to fly to another area of the country and pay for a hotel on top of the workshops.

Most people are still hurting in this economy and having to make very careful choices on what workshops they take.

This on top of a 6month old baby is why I can't attend.

Unfortunately, I think the economy is a much bigger element in this issue (and other similar belly dance issues) than most people credit it for. Many of us just don't have the money to drop $300 and $400+ bucks here and there on any workshop we'd like + travel + lodging.

I think Tourbeau mentioned it in an earlier post - and I agree - in many areas of the country we've seen workshop frequency decline, because I'd bet the instructors already know - enrollment is not likely to be sufficient. In Texas, I think we have an AMAZING collection of incredibly talented dancers from instructors, pros, and on down the line, but you don't really see that many BIG 2 and 3 day weekend events more than a 2 or 3 times a year, max, and I've seen workshop instructors struggle to fill the events. I've seen many dancers in my area disregard events almost automatically because it falls into the "Sorry, I just can't afford that" category.

I think Mr. Reda is absolutely amazing, but he only visits Dallas, I'm in Austin, and its just not in the budget this year to make the 4 hour trip to Dallas, pay for lodging, meals and the workshops. Hopefully next year, if he does his tour again, I hope.

Originally Posted by aziyade

That's a huge factor for me too -- the workshop could be as low as $50 but if the hotel bill/gas bill is closer to $400 for the weekend ... well, that one might be right out.

And that isn't even factoring in food, possible loss of wages (I'm hourly part-time). It can get very expensive fast.

I went to his workshop last year and found it to be an extremely awesome experience....one that I'll never forget! Fortunately, I have the funds to attend this year and am looking forward to learning and growing more as a dancer.

I would love the opportunity to learn from this legend! I wish that he could come to Florida! All I can do right now is hope that he will come to south Florida, or even do workshops of this type in New York, I have family there and would love the opportunity to go!