Thread: Would you or have you partnered with someone to help promote your business?

I was wondering if anyone has ever worked with someone to help promote their bellydance business before? How would that work? Let's say for example you need some help in marketing and promoting yourself, and you knew someone who could help you, what would be a fair price to pay them for their efforts? I'm starting out in my business, and I was wondering, if I'm the one who is performing, and this person is the one who is promoting what would that person charge me, what percentage of my profits would seem fair? Has anyone done this before? Does this make any sense?

I'm a bit confused about what you are asking. Are you thinking of hiring someone to manage your promotional material, partnering with another business to share advertising expenses... what exactly are your goals & needs? There are a few threads about what types of advertising have worked for different people. If you are just starting out, I would make a more comprehensive marketing plan for how you want to promote your business before you go looking for an agency. You need to know what you want, to some extent, before I'd trust someone else to take on your public image!

Personally, I have a hard time letting go, even when I need help. I have a very clear image of what I want, and very rarely do the folks at the newspaper, or wherever, draft an ad that I feel really lives up to what I'm asking for, so I usually just draft things myself!

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't word my question properly. I haven't thought of hiring anyone, but in talking with a family member recently, the topic came up that I was needing some help promoting myself, and this person being well known or connected in the community offered to help me, in the promotion aspect, and possibly booking gigs for me. Of course I agree with you, it would be hard for me to completely give her control, I wouldn't want to do that, but just in the promotion aspect of it, if she can book gigs for me, or help promote me, what would seem fair to pay her for helping me? I was just wondering if anyone has come up with that before. I haven't agreed to anything yet, and I'm basically just trying to see if this would work. I understand that first I have to build a website, and set up a real marketing plan, but let 's say she can on her own book something for me, like a bridal shower for a friend of hers, or birthday party, I'm thinking if she can do that, then what would be the percentage of my profit, that would seem fair, to pay her.

I've seen from 10-20% booking fees.

Yep- that's what I've been quoted too. Booking agents here generally charge around 10%, sometimes a little more. There is a party coordinator who does a flat fee instead, but it works out to be pretty close to that (haven't tried a booking agent yet, this is just from asking around.)

Ok, thank you ladies! This is great, this gives me a good idea! thanks for your help!

i just finished a great book and the author stated that business plans are a waste of time..I tend to agree. It's good to have a general outline of where you want to go and a list of available resources but tagging it down to complete specifics is difficult and rather time consuming. I guess if you are approaching a bank for a loan they still want to see business plans?

As far as partnering..if two businesses share a vision but each offers something different yet complementary, why not :) I made contact with a very creative business woman in Bali over a year ago..we've been talking online and discussing ideas for clothing for some time now. While I will continue to make veils and skirts for dancers, she has access to clothing garment production..something I've always wanted to do not only with silk but with other casual fabrics. I just spent a little over a week in Bali meeting her in person and working together on some really neat projects. She wants me to paint some silk so she can have it sewn into some of her garments..and I'll be adding an akai touch to some of her existing designs. We both cater to two different target markets that definitely overlap. While both of our businesses will remain their own entities we will be helping each other to promote so in a sense it's a partnership.

as far as bellydancers..when I was dancing pro in san francisco, I worked with a network of dancers and we always traded or referred out gigs to each other. One of my friends was engaged in finding gigs for us on a full time basis..this is back in the day when Gilded Serpent listed dancers and venues (locally) not sure if they still do that..but building a network with other local dancers worked out really well.

I often send out other dancers to gigs that I book, and my 'commission' depends upon how much work I put into the booking process (below). I charge flat rates, because they're easier to work out than percentages. When negotiating your rates with your 'agent', you just need to put yourself in the shoes of both dancer and agent, and think 'Is this fair for the work I put into it?' Make sure the rates the agent quotes will be high enough for you both to get a decent pay.

This is what works for me:

- If it's a straight referral, where I simply get the client to ring the dancer and deal with her direct, then I receive a nominal kick-back fee of about ~5% (if they book). This reflects the fact that my advertising dollar attracted the enquiry, but i'm not doing anything else to deserve a higher commission.
- If it's a performance gig that i book and collect the deposit for, and write up a contract for, then my commission is about 15%.
- If it's a hen's party workshop that I book and collect the deposit for, and write up the contract for, then my commission is about 35%. It's much higher because there's a lot more work involved in managing enquiries and getting all the required details from the client. I also supply a 'party pack' to give to the hen, and loan out costumes as required. Plus, I can charge more for these gigs, so there's a higher margin and the dancer's pay is still good.

Jewelbellydance, this is an ideal situation for me; I wish someone were in my area doing that. I'm notoriously bad at lining up gigs for myself, and would gladly turn over a fair portion of my earnings to someone to whom I could outsource this. (the whole "X percentage of something is better than 100% of nothing" approach)

Thank you Jewel, this is a great breakdown, the person I'm talking to has told me 20%, and I think it's a little high, especially if the only thing basically she is doing is referring potential gigs. This makes total sense, because I would also have to lay out that the commission is paid upon the condition of an actual booking. If I'm the one doing the advertising, and just tell her look here are my flyers and business cards, let me know if you can get me anyone, but I'm the one puttingmore into it, then I don't see why she's coming up with the 20%. Ok, this is great info, thank you I'm going to think about this some more.

I like Jewel's approach: base the fee on what the refer-er actually does! As to whether it's a flat fee or a percentage? I think that's immaterial really so long as everyone feels he/she is getting appropriately compensated.

Thanks for sharing your process, Jewel.

Deborah

I'm glad if sharing my info helps. It's an approach I've come to after many years of trial and error. I recently formalised these three 'commissions' because I'm now pregnant and no longer want to do my own gigs, yet I don't want to completely lose my income.

Minervabellydancer - I wouldn't be too concerned about getting the cut exactly right to start with. Of course, start with a proposal of what you want and negotiate something that's reasonably fair. But you might find that things change with time - it's hard to know in advance how much work the agent will have to do, nor how much work will come your way as a result. So, as long as you both communicate, you can fine-tune over time.

Here's an interesting thing I've found - different dancers' websites and marketing approaches seem to appeal to different areas of the market. I seem to be good at pulling in hen's party bookings, but far less so performance gigs. So if you can develop a network of dancers that cover all bases, and all agree on commissions, you can refer work back to each other. Then everyone gets a cut of the pie and it's in everyone's interests to be fair in the split of pay.

Just an extra something to cover in your negotiations: will the agent take a deposit and what will you do if the gig is cancelled? It's good to have these policies clear-cut for the client, agent and dancer.

Also, re the agent's fee - it should also reflect who cops potential loss or liability. For eg, if the client is extremely unhappy and demands compensation or lodges a complaint, who has to deal with the flack? Does the agent guarantee payment to the dancer even if the client somehow doesn't pay? Who's forking out insurance to cover the dancer?

In my case, I undertake to sort out any of these problems, and my insurance covers my party workshop teachers (but not performers, go figure). So I deserve compensation for that. With deposits, if a client cancels, I've agreed to split the deposit 50-50 with my dancers.