Thread: refusing business to a factory?

In the past two weeks I've made two sales to two different etsy users (brand new, no feedback) . When I look at the addresses they both look suspiciously like factory addresses, not residences. I regularly receive my plain white half circles from a supplier in China so I've gotten to know what factory addresses look like.

I already sent out the first order but went ahead and asked the second user if they are a factory and that I do not permit factories to buy my items to reproduce them. We'll see if they answer but I'm tempted to cancel the sale. Normally a sale will have a person's name. The paypal address name they use definitely sounds like a factory..I don't want to post it publicly but it doesn't seem to be a dancer.

Obviously factories can set up an individual account and go ahead and purchase my items then forward them to the factory without me knowing. I had a previous dancer/customer send a bunch of my veils overseas as samples (she failed..they turned out banded looking) . So it looks like it's unavoidable . I'm confident enough in my technique so I know they won't be able to produce something other than a banded, similar in color product. What I'm concerned about is that they will use my photos, as other overseas manufacturers have done, to misrepresent what they are really selling.

Any advice on the best way to handle this? I feel compelled to write in all store listings that there may be 'counterfeit' or knock off veils being sold by someone who is also using the photos. I've never had any luck asking other manufacturers to stop using my photos in fact if you read my blog entry about it you can see they are still posted.

At this point I AM starting to get upset about factories using my images especially if they are buying my items and attempting to reproduce them. I've been in business for 12 years now and my long time dancers can spot a fake akai but I'm selling on ebay again and to a fresh crop of dancers they may not know the difference.

Thoughts?

blog entry:
why stolen photos don’t bother me | The Morning Bleat

It's especially a concern when the professional images are being used. The outdoors casual photos we take with my Sony are my problem but I am angered when they use images that were taken by professional photographers like Craig Ellenwood and Sarah Skinner.

Should I start putting a large watermark across the image? It's probably too late the images are all over the place.

According to U.S. contract law, you have the right to refuse business to any potential client so long as your reason for refusing is NOT due to the client's race, national origin, gay/straight status, gender, or age. Ie, you can't refuse service to someone due to personal characteristics of the sort that are protected by equal opportunity laws, but you CAN refuse service for any other reason.

If it were me, I would decline the order. Good luck with your decision!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

According to U.S. contract law...

If it is a company outside of the U.S. would U.S. contract law still apply?

ita. trust your instincts. its not worth one sale, to potentially have a factory try to overtake your market. yes, put a gigantic watermark through the center of all your photos!

Sadly, despite Etsy touting it's down home goodness 100% handmade angle, it's RIFE with resellers and mass producers from China and India. So it really wouldn't surprise me. But how much can they really knock off an A'Kai? You're famous, dahling.

If they don't respond or they are a factory, I'd say refuse sale. Sounds fishy.

And I think the watermark is a good idea, at least to prevent future image theft. So sad that people do this.

It may seem like closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out, but there's nothing to be lost by watermarking your photos now. At least, when the current hacks have fallen by the way, new hacks will be discouraged.

I think it's a good idea to add to your listings a blurb about legit sales. Such as, "unless you are buying this item via XYZ on Etsy, or via ABC on ebay, the item is a counterfeit knock-off based on our design, but lacking our quality. "

Originally Posted by Sirène

If it is a company outside of the U.S. would U.S. contract law still apply?

Typically, if a would-be buyer wants to bring a complaint against a vendor, the would-be buyer needs to bring the lawsuit in the jurisdiction where the vendor is located, and the case would be adjudicated according to the laws of the vendor's location.

The exception would be if the vendor and buyer had mutually agreed in advance that a different location's laws would be applied to any legal actions resulting from the relationship.

Mahalo for the feedback..I waited 48 hours for a response and didn't receive one so I refunded the money and wrote on the paypal note that I do not sell to factories. The paypal account was usagochina@xxxx I don't know sounds like a factory to me. It's unavoidable..a factory can easily figure out how to get their hands on one.

Thanks for the advice, I did start putting a blurb in my listings about factories producing counterfeit items and falsely using akai images. Luckily I have over 3000 feedback on ebay so that should help vouch for the fact that I'm not a new business that sprung to life and am making these claims.

There's a definite advantage to being 'within' our dance community..I've personally known so many of you for 12 + years now..we keep an eye out for each other. I'm flattered that akai has done so well enough that factories have recognized it may be worth creating falsies.

And I think a lot of shoppers are suspicious of ebay sellers ..it's pretty easy to spot a mass seller with super cheap prices. Dima I agree, etsy has become what ebay has..it's over run .

ps if you are a dancer and you are selling a used akai or what not just let me know if you run it on ebay..chances are i'll recognize your user id ..other than a few of my wholesalers who sell from me full time and use the images on their site with my permission most resellers just resell akai in person so there shouldnt be any problems

I'd like to see China try to copy the handpainted stuff :) I can't even copy my own work it's free hand :)

good luck with this one, China :)

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Some of you may remember my trip to Shanghai and Hangzhou a few years ago..I was working with someone who supplied my hemmed silk and skirts for me. He had suggested that they do the dyeing for me as well. I was running full speed on ebay..my sales were averaging in the busy months up to 10,000 dollars a month..I was buried and couldn't keep anything in stock..so the company arranged to host me (had a blast by the way their nightclubs are incomparable..lavishly decorated VIP rooms). Long story short we travelled around to various factories, I had brought a sample and showed them IN PERSON how I do my work ..I watched them try and fail and try and fail again. Artists will tell you ..you can teach someone to paint you can teach someone to dance but in each of us resides something very original ..our own fingerprint? . They just couldn't do it..they tried painting them, dip dyeing, they tried it my way. It was then that I realized that art really can't be reproduced ..techniques can be taught that's about it. So I gave up and settled back into the insanity of full time dyeing and selling :)

Even now as I'm working with a good friend in Bali..I'm being paid by her to dye and paint silk to send to her to be sewn into garments for HER line of clothing.

You just can't replicate an A'Kai

It's like fake purses. They may look close, but anyone who knows their stuff can spot a fake. They're just not the same. Anyone who knows what A'Kai is will know they have to go straight to the source to get the real thing.

Your art is so wonderful and well known you can't possible keep up with the demand. It's good because it shows you're fabulous at what you do. It's 'bad' because now you can't keep up with how quickly they fly off the shelves. It's a shame you can't find a way to take on an apprentice or two to help with demand.

Etsy... oh Etsy. I want to love you, but why must you allow and in some ways encourage resellers and factories despite it being against Etsy policy? It's an ongoing issue in the Etsy community (although talking about it on their forums could get your account banned!) and it's very frustrating for us Etsy sellers. but that's a story for another thread.