Thread: Advice needed with quite hostile sittuation.

It seems to me that these days the more forceful and arrogant you are, the more respected you are deemed to be? I really do not understand this mentality and find myself on the receiving end of it. I certainly do not 'muscle in' on other peoples jobs or try to intimidate people into getting what I want, but I find this happening more and more in my dance community. It deeply saddens me to say the least. SO do I let myself be pushed about and pushed OUT or do you make a stand. Furthermore How would you handle this situation.

I was recently contacted by a dancer in my community who was scouting for work for another dancer she was close to. She offered me an opportunity to teach a one off class that she couldn't teach and in return she asked that I consider calling on this dancer if i were ill or could not dance at the restaurant i have had a residency in for the past 3 years. She explained that this dancer had been sending out cards to local restaurants but she had told her not to send one to this particular restaurant as she knew I worked there and she "firmly believed in not upsetting local dancers"

I was not keen on this idea, I explained I am always in need of work and so very rarely pass up on work but I would bear it in mind, and consider it if I should i ever be in that situation, and got off the phone as politely and quickly as I could.

It is now about 3 months later and the other dancer in question, who had not heard from me decided to take things up a notch. I was dancing on Saturday and in the middle of my set, In walks this dancer, who I have never met. She was wearing full belly dance cabaret costume, she walked through he middle of my dance floor and up to the bar. I could see the staff look and customers look from me to her wondering what on earth was going on. She proceed to stand and give her cards to my boss (while i was still dancing). When I finished she introduced herself and told said, "I was just passing, you know i am going to be covering for you so I thought id drop my card in in person". She then went on to ask me what "tips" i could give her when she was working there. I was so gob smacked I could hardly answer her. I had to change quickly and leave. As I left, she was still there and I could hear her inform my boss of how long she 'will' be dancing and describing her style.

Her attitude was one of , if you wont give me a slice of your job, i will make sure they have my card so I may take it. I was utterly shocked.

How would you handle this. I feel like this sort of blatant pushiness is being classed as "ambition and assertiveness" and Im seeing more and more of it. Its not at all a nice way to do business, its just plain bad manners. Would you contact the dancer concerned directly or keep a dignified silence but make your position clear with your boss?

thank you in advance as this is really playing on my mind.

OMG....Hopefully your restarant owner and the diners present will have total distain for her rudeness.
That is beyond the pale and no one but no one in the community will admire those methods.
Is she employed by a belly dance agenc?..if so complain to the organiser.
Apart from that make sure your employer knows she is nothing to do with you and yes dignified silence is always good.
I would imagine anyone seeing the scene you describe would think she was a total flake.
You could, of course always name and shame but that mght provoke nore confrontation.
I am sure if it happens again, your owner might throw her out on her ar$e..he must have been mystified.
But another thought what about the third party ......has she lead her to believe you have agreed..not that
that excuses her prancing in in costume when you are dancing.

Thanks Ipmluk, thank you for your reply, i agree naming and shaming isnt the path i want to go down, I just really need some input on it. It has actually kept me awake at night, wavering from one extreme to another... from 'what if i loose my job' to anger that I didnt pipe up and say something to her. Ive over-thought it to the point of loosing all perspective of it.

Im very sure the woman was under no illusion i had agreed to it, to me the whole situation just stank of her muscling in.

I will do as you suggest and a quiet word with my boss, is the way i will probably go. Thank you. x

Wow! That is soooo tacky for her to parade in during your set in full costume and attempt to promote herself!! I vote for taking the high road and talking directly with the boss, meanwhile ignoring her classless behavior (even though it would feel good to enlighten her). Stay strong and don't stoop to her level!!

Wow!
Completely unprofessional.
The longest relationships we have in this business are with other dancers. Her actions guaranteed you will NEVER trust her or send her a gig.
I ONLY recommend other dancers whom I have seen dance, whom I know are professional and whom I know are ethical. Hopefully your venue saw through her ridiculous behavior and saw how rude it was.
Take the high road. Tell the owner the back story and let it go. I would apologize on her behalf to them... "Gosh, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I hope her pushiness didn't make you uncomfortable..." Then drop it.

"Just passing"....in full costume! I hope the owner has the sense to realise that this indicates that she's slightly unhinged. Have that quiet word with him. I bet that she offered to dance for a lower free than you, or possibly for free.

Tacky, tacky, tacky behaviour. I wouldn't confront her with it, but if your mutual friend asks about her I would see no problem in saying, tactfully, that it'll be a cold day in hell before you you give work to Miss Pushy.

Is it possible that the dancer who originally contacted you on her behalf has led her up the garden path? Perhaps (over)confidently assured her that she could help her get work by setting her up to be your sub, and then later failed to make it clear that although she did speak with you about it and all, she doesn't really have so much influence as she let on, and you actually did not agree to the idea?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Rosette

Originally Posted by TaliaD

It seems to me that these days the more forceful and arrogant you are, the more respected you are deemed to be?

I'm not sure it's a new phenomenon. I think it's been around as long as there have been obsessed, desperate people clamoring for attention.

It is now about 3 months later and the other dancer in question, who had not heard from me decided to take things up a notch. I was dancing on Saturday and in the middle of my set, In walks this dancer, who I have never met. She was wearing full belly dance cabaret costume, she walked through he middle of my dance floor and up to the bar.

Maybe we should be glad she didn't start dancing along with your music, too? I might be tempted to give her a teeny amount of slack if she actually had been cutting across town between party gigs that night, but what are the odds that was the situation? That wouldn't excuse walking across the stage in the middle of the show, though.

"I was just passing, you know i am going to be covering for you so I thought id drop my card in person".

Tell your boss another dancer contacted you previously about such an arrangement, but no formal agreement was made for you to advance the career of a dancer you don't even know.

Her attitude was one of , if you wont give me a slice of your job, i will make sure they have my card so I may take it. I was utterly shocked.

Save some shock in case she sleeps with the boss to seal the deal, eh? (Wouldn't be the first time that happened, either...)

Would you contact the dancer concerned directly or keep a dignified silence but make your position clear with your boss?

I would deal only with the boss, in the most professional way possible, and steer clear of her. There's little to be gained by stooping to her level, so hopefully the boss will see her for what she is. It would be unfortunate if she manages to poach the job out from under you, but realistically, all you can do is take the high road and hope for the best.

Thanks to you all for your replies. I feel so much better and can see now that i really have to deal only with my boss, In a way its pretty good to know that im not going to have to send one of those 30 emails ive written her in my head.

torbeau, lol... oh no please not the mental image of my boss sleeping with anyone (thanks for making me smile though)

I agree with so many of your posts, I will never trust her again. My other half said a similar thing as a few of you said, when i got home that night. That probably everyone saw what she was doing and so was of a low opinion from the off, but it still didnt stop me thinking it over a million times :D

I will take the high road and hope for the best. IF she were to poach my job out from under me, then I have a funny feeling she would be off in a few months to pastures new.

Rosette, im sure that its not the case, the first call from the friend was pretty pushy too, I may not have described it very well, but im sure there's been no mistake. I was half expecting it in the weeks after the initial phone call, i was on my guard. So it just took a little while longer than i thought for her to turn up.

Thanks again everyone. Its good to know its not that im 'Too soft for this game' and that im not in the wrong for being so furious.

OMG! How rude. That is not how you go about asking for a job. I agree, you definitely need to speak to the owner to make him aware that you are not okay with her behaviour. A similar experience happened to someone I know except in case this other dance walked in the club in full costume and immediately went to the stage during the 1st dancers show. Unfortunately, the 1st dancer was so shocked by the behavior she ended up quiting club work because she didn't think it was worth putting up with such ruthless and rude behavior.

Unlike many of the dancers here, I would confront the offending dancer, in addition to talking to the venue owner about the situation.

There are two reasons for this kind of behavior, ignorance or just a total lack of appropriate decorum. If you address the issue with this dancer then you can rule out the former.

When I say confront, I don't mean in anger. Maybe ask the dancer out to lunch where you can talk face to face. I find that works best. Some dancers will see the error of their ways and learn from the situations, others will be irreparable, at least you can say you did your best to address the problem in a kind way.

If her bad behavior persists and becomes an ongoing problem, then I'm not against the public shame tactic, it is one of the few things we can do to try and defend ourselves from the predatory behavior of other dancers and warn others against falling into the same wrong behaviors. Do you have a forum for local professionals in your area?

What a horrible uncomfortable situation for you to be in and how insensitive for another dancer to put you in it! I agree with all the comments here and add my two bits -
As mentioned, talk to your boss, let them know that you don't know her, can't recommend her to them, and suspect that she is a new dancer and unprofessional (and therefore unpredictable and unreliable as a hire for them), or else she would not have behaved in such a way.

In the past I've known aspiring dancers who were unfamiliar with the general rules of conduct who change their behaviour when someone lets them know it's inappropriate to try to steal someone else's gig. Someone as blatantly rude as this girl probably doesn't care about that. I agree with Shems that you could try contacting her, I myself would probably be more comfortable emailing as I imagine you've probably lain awake at night shaking in rage and would only do so in a confrontation (lord knows I would) and kindly let her know that this sort of behaviour will only alienate her from other dancers who could share gigs.

Then, whatever her response, take consolation in the fact that most dancers only get gigs in the long term (and therefore fame and fortune ) with the support of their dance community. A dancer like that will be yesterday's news before you know it. With behaviour like that her career will be over before it even started .

In the distant past, I have been known to stop by a restaurant where I have previously made inquiries to drop off cards or talk to the house dancer while still in war paint with a Galabaya on, post gig, as it were. But usually I had made an appointment, whether formal of informal, before popping over.

Now, i would take this in 2 steps pretty much as Shems and Tourbeau suggested, talk to the owner AND have a conversation with your friend and the other dancer. Make it clear that while you were happy to have the other dancer on the sub list, there were several other dancer there before her and that there hadn't been any occasion to call for a sub in between the time of the initial conversation and the walking into the restaurant in full costume. Let them both know that due to the unprofessional behavior, it is unlikely that you will be able to use her in the future. While I wouldn't go so far as to blame your boss, I MIGHT infer that HE was the one who found it disturbing. And if that happens to be the case, feel free to use it! back pedaling is a b*tch. But can be fun to watch.

Good luck!

{{{HUGS}}}

I agree with pretty much everything folks have posted on this thread. I'll just add one nuance that I didn't notice anyone else comment on....

I wouldn't EVER refer a gig to Ms. Referrer (the dancer who originally called you on IntruderDancer's behalf). That person showed poor judgment by trying to persuade you to enter into a business relationship with an extremely unprofessional person, and it shows that she can't be trusted either as a judge of character or as a judge of what constitutes professional behavior. A person worthy of your trust would have never tried to push you to enter into any kind of relationship with someone who behaves as IntruderDancer did.

The next time I saw Ms. Referrer, I would say in an off-handed way, "I had a rather surprising experience with IntruderDancer. She came to my gig and ___. Did you know she was going to do that?" Don't say this in a hostile or scolding way. Instead, use a surprised / bewildered tone as if you're quite puzzled that a "professional" dancer would behave in such a way. If Ms. Referrer knows that IntruderDancer operates this way, then confronting her (albeit in a non-aggressive way for this first offense) is a good idea, to show her that you will not tolerate being bullied. If Ms. Referrer had no idea that IntruderDancer would do this, then it's important for her to be enlightened before she talks some poor naive person into getting caught in that web.

I'd go with talk with the owner as others have suggested. I would do it asap, and not let this drag out for weeks. Then it would look like you have drama with the other dancer, instead of just being gobsmacked over such a bizarre thing to do. I'd also keep the discussion brief and along the lines of "just so you know, I don't know that person and we're not associated in any way".

I'd just ignore the other dancer, although I might discuss briefly with the referring dancer just to let her know that you thought what happened was A. Unprofessional and B. Insane.

What BELLA_BELLA just said. I like the idea of feeding a bit of "er, what was she thinking? does someone need to have a word with her?" back to Referrer.

The only reason I'd make any contact with IntruderDancer is if I believed she acted out of cluelessness and would take advice positively. (She believes the backup cover story, didn't realise it would be good manners to talk to you first, doesn't realise that it's horrible manners to swan into someone else's gig in full costume, needs to remember a cover up...hmmm... that's a suspiciously large amount of clueless for one person).

If she's the type who thinks this is an assertive cool publicity stunt, would she listen to advice from the dance community? You don't walk across someone else's dance floor in full costume unless you are trying to provoke a reaction, IMHO - I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of a reaction.

Is this other "intruder" dancer from a small town or has she danced in restaurants before needing to contact a 3rd party in order to land a gig? Coming from a very small town myself (no venues, no mid-east restaurants), I'd be clueless as to professional behavior if it weren't for bhuz and the beautiful dancers of Philthydelphia taking me under their wings.
I hope you can take the high road and assume this dancer is absolutely uneducated and needs your (gentle) schooling. So what if she gets pleasure out of knowing she made you uncomfortable? That's not really the point, is it? You can save face by acting gracefully with this dancer and this situation.
If "intruder" dancer has indeed lost dance gigs at other restaurants do to her aggressive behavior, it won't take her long to move onto other, "better" things. Good luck!

Originally Posted by tantzyebatb

So what if she gets pleasure out of knowing she made you uncomfortable? That's not really the point, is it? You can save face by acting gracefully with this dancer and this situation.

IntruderDancer's misplaced pleasure may not be the point, but why on earth should anyone devote time and effort to mentor a potential competitor in business skills AT NO CHARGE when that competitor has already demonstrated a ruthlessness in the way they behave? Why invite such a person into one's life? Why encourage continued drama and chaos through engaging such a person in a relationship? I don't think Tala owes this person anything.

Remember, there's another person in the mix, the one who tried to persuade Tala to offer work opportunities to IntruderDancer. Since Referrer seems to have some level of interest in helping IntruderDancer launch a professional dance career, I think it's perfectly logical to tell Referrer what happened and let her decide whether she wants to explain to Intruder the error of her ways.

My way of acting gracefully toward IntruderDancer would be this: I would not initiate any contact with IntruderDancer, but if I were to accidentally encounter her at the grocery store I would behave with the same level of pleasantness/courtesy that I would use with any other stranger. I'd helpfully answer her question about which aisle contains whatever she's trying to find, or I'd answer her question about which type of apple is best to use in an apple pie.

Originally Posted by tantzyebatb

Is this other "intruder" dancer from a small town or has she danced in restaurants before needing to contact a 3rd party in order to land a gig? Coming from a very small town myself (no venues, no mid-east restaurants), I'd be clueless as to professional behavior if it weren't for bhuz and the beautiful dancers of Philthydelphia taking me under their wings.
I hope you can take the high road and assume this dancer is absolutely uneducated and needs your (gentle) schooling. So what if she gets pleasure out of knowing she made you uncomfortable? That's not really the point, is it? You can save face by acting gracefully with this dancer and this situation.
If "intruder" dancer has indeed lost dance gigs at other restaurants do to her aggressive behavior, it won't take her long to move onto other, "better" things. Good luck!

I don't think anyone who puts on a uniform and walks into another person's workplace while they are working to hand over their CV to their boss in front of them in order to boost their chances of getting that person's job is "clueless". Ruthless and completely lacking in ethics, more like. Knows exactly what they're doing and believes they are entitled to everything they want. I would not spit on such a person if they were on fire.

I think Zumarrad has the right of it. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing, and wanted to intimidate you. Tacky. Taking the high road as so many others have suggested is right - your classy behavior will be a nice contrast to her rudeness. Just my two cents.:)

Yes, all I meant was by handling your situation with class, you won't lose your grace. By no means should you "mentor" "intruder" dancer, but you can tell her directly how what she did was unprofessional and unethical.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

I don't think anyone who puts on a uniform and walks into another person's workplace while they are working to hand over their CV to their boss in front of them in order to boost their chances of getting that person's job is "clueless". Ruthless and completely lacking in ethics, more like. Knows exactly what they're doing and believes they are entitled to everything they want. I would not spit on such a person if they were on fire.

ps--this is something small town dancers never encounter so thank you Zumarrad and thank you Talia for sharing your experience as awful as it was.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

I don't think anyone who puts on a uniform and walks into another person's workplace while they are working to hand over their CV to their boss in front of them in order to boost their chances of getting that person's job is "clueless". Ruthless and completely lacking in ethics, more like. Knows exactly what they're doing and believes they are entitled to everything they want. I would not spit on such a person if they were on fire.

As a funny aside, we are told when going to apply for a job to dress as though you were working there. I do know more than one high school student who has taken this to heart and shown up to apply for a nurses aide post in scrubs. They were totally clueless.

Not saying that this is the case here. I probably wouldn't let her off the hook until I was sure that this was the case. Much as I am an American and do believe in Innocent until proven Guilty, there are some things where it's simply better to be skeptical. (Which reminds me, I have Jury duty right after Christmas!)

{{{HUGS}}}

Again, Its nice to read your responses. Some of you have mentioned that perhaps this girl was new to the business. This is relatively true, however the person who initially contact me is not, and she does have a vested interested. So im sure it was no innocent mistake, hence my complete fury. I don't think I would have been half as angry if I thought it was a new dancer who had bumbled into a situation and had got it all wrong. It was the opposite of this, and it was indeed intimidating.

However, I do have some good news. I took your advice and contacted my boss, I sent him an email explaining that I apologised for the uncomfortable situation last weekend and that the girl was not known to me, nor had there been any agreement she would cover for me, merely that someone had asked me that I would bear her in mind. I also explained that I have very reliable dancer friends that I can vouch for. And if needed would be more than happy to recommended them (as I have done in the past).

He replied within about 10 mins saying that he had not even thought about this girl since she left the building and that's what I should do to. He finished by saying, "Now promise me you will stop thinking about this and enjoy your week". :D I think he read between the lines of the situation, without me having to say too much and I feel sooooooo much better.

Thank you for your advice and support on this, It makes me realise that there is a bigger and broader dance community out there to give you some perspective on a situation when it is most needed.

So pleased to hear your boss is supportive. It's good to know you are valued.
I cannot for one minute than this girl must have thought what she was doing was in any way moral,ethical or correct.How dim do you have to be to think you try to get a job by turning up in this way?.
Her "mentor" needs to make sure she got her message over correctly and that she never does that again to any da.
I can understand a dancer turning up at a restaurant where they may be a call for another dancer,having a costume with her and asking for an "audition" but that was beyod the pale and I hope she realises what she has done was probably counter-productive.

Glad to hear this had a good ending and your boss has common sense and a clue!
As for clueless and her mentor sometimes all you can do is shake your head and laugh at the desperation. At least that's what I do out here with the local will dance/teach for free crew.

Originally Posted by tantzyebatb

Yes, all I meant was by handling your situation with class, you won't lose your grace. By no means should you "mentor" "intruder" dancer, but you can tell her directly how what she did was unprofessional and unethical.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood what you were suggesting.

I don't think I"d bother initiating any contact with this person, not even to politely tell her she'd acted unprofessionally. I'd leave it to her Referrer friend to coach her in proper business conduct.

That's what my thought was too. Just don't engage with the other dancer or you'll get drama that you have no interest in. Boring and a waste of precious energy.

Im sorry this is happening to you... there is tons of great advice already here... *hugs*
All I can say is breathe and be true to yourself! You will shine regardless!!!

Originally Posted by BELLA_BELLA

That's what my thought was too. Just don't engage with the other dancer or you'll get drama that you have no interest in. Boring and a waste of precious energy.

This must be why other professional artists employ personal managers who take care of these situations for them. I feel so naive that it never crosses my mind that there's such brutal competition in the field of bellydance. Guess us small-towners all sheltered.