Thread: What do you do when the tips dry up?

I've been working at the same restaurant/club for five years now. In the beginning, it was normal to make $30-$90 tips per night, depending on which night you danced. Exactly twice I came away with about $200 in tips there while dancing for a small party on an off night.

In the last couple of years, however, the tips have dwindled away to nothing. That's right, nothing. It is not unusual any more to do a Saturday night 10:30pm show and not be tipped even one dollar. Last night was a good example.

There are, of course, many factors that contribute to this, it's a complicated issue. But my question for all of you is how do we as dancers revitalize the tipping?

In this establishment we are not allowed to accept body tips - only money showers are allowed. I think part of the problem is that the newer clientele does not know this, and perhaps waits for us to go out for tips like other restaurants, and when we don't, we miss out on that opportunity.

My other guess is that they think it's a floor show and that we are paid much more than we are to dance and that we don't need the tips....either that or they are all really really cheap.

So how do we go about revitalizing the tipping in this establishment without seeming like we are begging?

Would a postcard on each table discussing the history of belly dancing and mentioning tipping (but not making that the main focus) help? This has been my idea, but I haven't created and ordered the cards yet. They would be placed in those plastic holders that you see on tables in restaurants so that they don't walk away.

Do you have any other suggestions?

A card or flier on the tables is a great idea. I put one together for a suburban place I worked at many years ago, and it did the trick. I know here in SF Fat Chance Belly Dance used to do that, too. When I did it, I had an informational paragraph on belly dance, a bit about tipping, and something about classes.

If you are not allowed to get tipped on your costume, how about a pot* or basket on your head? I worked in a restaurant in SF (now sadly closed) where all the dancers did this, and it was great. People definitely got it, and many appreciated not having to touch the dancers, and we generally appreciated having many people not touch us. :)

There there is seed money. Have one of the waiters or bartender or owner start the tipping, even with a shower. Hint hint, people!


*The only downside? The venue provided a brass pot that all the dancers used. Once someone threw coins in. It felt like my brains were rattling around in my head for days afterwards!

Tips have been on the low side lately in Colorado too.

I just think it's a function of the economy. which sucks.

Sometimes we have a staff member, waiter, whatever, plant a tip while you are dancing - then people go,
"Oh, we're supposed to tip"

hope that helps.

Would a postcard on each table discussing the history of belly dancing and mentioning tipping (but not making that the main focus) help? This has been my idea, but I haven't created and ordered the cards yet. They would be placed in those plastic holders that you see on tables in restaurants so that they don't walk away.

I've seen this done before and it came across as making it classy to tip, not raunchy; many women in the audience tipped

the seed money idea is also good--get the tip party started!

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

My other guess is that they think it's a floor show and that we are paid much more than we are to dance and that we don't need the tips....either that or they are all really really cheap.

As far as the GP is concerned, I think this is a major factor. I've taken non-BD friends to restaurants with dancing before, and they're always surprised when I tip generously. When make a point to mention that restaurant pay is usually pretty low, so tips make a big difference, I get a lot of confused looks.

At one of the restaurants with dancing here, I was told the wait staff is supposed to come around after the dancer performs and collect tips for her. However, I've been there a few times and have yet to see the wait staff do anything of the sort, so I presume the dancer goes home tipless.

Oh that would be really helpful. Good idea!!

Some of the Restaurants in my area have a blurb on their website about how to tip the dancers, and how tips are appreciated, etc. But having this on the table would really help clear up confusion. I want to tip the dancers I go see, but I want to be respectful AND don't always know the laws.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Would a postcard on each table discussing the history of belly dancing and mentioning tipping (but not making that the main focus) help? This has been my idea, but I haven't created and ordered the cards yet. They would be placed in those plastic holders that you see on tables in restaurants so that they don't walk away.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Originally Posted by *maria*

Tips have been on the low side lately in Colorado too.

I just think it's a function of the economy. which sucks.

Sometimes we have a staff member, waiter, whatever, plant a tip while you are dancing - then people go,
"Oh, we're supposed to tip"

hope that helps.

We have tried seed money, but many times the waitstaff is too busy to help, or it just doesn't catch on. It really seems to be indicative of the state of the economy today. I have a feeling no one is getting tipped the way they used to.

Perhaps it's just Christmas?

I know I get a little bit stingy knowing all the family members I have to buy gifts for.

I'm staying home a bit more around the holidays and not going out to eat or see dancers much this time of year.

Azeeza

Originally Posted by Azeeza

Perhaps it's just Christmas?

I know I get a little bit stingy knowing all the family members I have to buy gifts for.

I'm staying home a bit more around the holidays and not going out to eat or see dancers much this time of year.

Azeeza

No, that's not it. The situation has been steadily deteriorating for a couple of years now.

There are a lot of factors - the city banned smoking in restaurants, which put a dent in patronage, as a some folks like the hookah/dinner/dance show experience.

The management has changed the atmosphere several times over the last few years, and I feel that a great many of the Arab clientele have stopped coming, and they are the ones who understood tipping the best. Now there are more Americans coming, and they don't understand the concept of going into the dancer's space and showering her with money. They wait for the dancer to come to them, which we don't do.

Also, we used to do our late show an hour later, and most of our best tippers don't arrive until after 11pm, which means we are now dependent on the earlier crowds, which have historically been a little more restrained.

It sounds to me like the lack of Middle Easterners is a big problem. Culturally, they understand the aesthetic and set the stage for accepted/expected audience behavior at a belly dance show (you show off your money!).

I'm wondering what happened besides the smoking ban that has turned off the Middle Eastern clientele? Because if YOU can't get tipped, there's really no hope for the rest of us.

Hrm.
The last three months we have had the biggest tip takes in years. Then last night, bleh. But that was because there were two birthday parties in the house who completely IGNORED US. I mean, literally didn't watch except occasionally looking over their shoulders. Didn't clap. And then didn't tip.

I don't mind the not tip (I mean, it sucks, but...). But to IGNORE performers and then NOT CLAP? SO RUDE! And in Seattle that is just unheard of, so to have two parties in the same room behave the same way was semi-shocking. Made for a sad holiday show. :(

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Hrm.
The last three months we have had the biggest tip takes in years. Then last night, bleh. But that was because there were two birthday parties in the house who completely IGNORED US. I mean, literally didn't watch except occasionally looking over their shoulders. Didn't clap. And then didn't tip.

I don't mind the not tip (I mean, it sucks, but...). But to IGNORE performers and then NOT CLAP? SO RUDE! And in Seattle that is just unheard of, so to have two parties in the same room behave the same way was semi-shocking. Made for a sad holiday show. :(

I don't think it's rude for an audience to ignore the performers - we are there for them not the either way around. It SUCKS, yes, but it's not rude. They also don't owe anything to the dancer in way of tipping. Gratuities are supposed to be just that - extra. It's not the audiences probem that dancers take on jobs in whch the pay is low.

Back to the original thread, I have noticed over the past year that a lot of dancers are reporting an overall trend of lowered tips, and smaller audiences in general. Friends of mine from several different cities in the US have made offhand remarks to this effect. Hopefully it will pass and spending will go back up.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

It sounds to me like the lack of Middle Easterners is a big problem. Culturally, they understand the aesthetic and set the stage for accepted/expected audience behavior at a belly dance show (you show off your money!).

I agree. I mean, I understand if the restaurant doesn't want body tipping, but if the *only* way to tip you is with a money shower, you'll find few takers amongst the GP. Heck, when I first heard of it, I was like, "Wha? You throw money at them, then it gets left on the floor?" ..c::

Since the clientele has changed, do you think the management would agree to a beautifully decorated tip basket? You wouldn't necessarily have to bring it to the audience - just have it left out somewhere fairly conspiculous. Most Americans who have been at a place with live music are very familair and comfortable with the concept of dropping a few bucks into a tip jar.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I agree. I mean, I understand if the restaurant doesn't want body tipping, but if the *only* way to tip you is with a money shower, you'll find few takers amongst the GP. Heck, when I first heard of it, I was like, "Wha? You throw money at them, then it gets left on the floor?" ..c::

Since the clientele has changed, do you think the management would agree to a beautifully decorated tip basket? You wouldn't necessarily have to bring it to the audience - just have it left out somewhere fairly conspiculous. Most Americans who have been at a place with live music are very familair and comfortable with the concept of dropping a few bucks into a tip jar.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a good place to leave a tip basket where it wouldn't get pilfered from (the restaurant is HUGE and usually too busy to keep an eye on something like that).

Personally, I feel like passing around (or even leaving) a tip basket is too much like begging for the management to feel comfortable with it. They want to seem like a place that is too nice for such things.

Originally Posted by lotus

I don't think it's rude for an audience to ignore the performers - we are there for them not the either way around. It SUCKS, yes, but it's not rude. They also don't owe anything to the dancer in way of tipping. Gratuities are supposed to be just that - extra. It's not the audiences probem that dancers take on jobs in whch the pay is low.

Back to the original thread, I have noticed over the past year that a lot of dancers are reporting an overall trend of lowered tips, and smaller audiences in general. Friends of mine from several different cities in the US have made offhand remarks to this effect. Hopefully it will pass and spending will go back up.

I see what you're saying, but I don't understand why a party would book itself into a place where the featured attraction is a floor show and then go out of their way to ignore it or even give the dancers dirty looks like we're intruding upon their celebration. It's weird.

Hi, all,

At Sausan's restaurant (Al Masri) in SF, they provide each table with a "tip envelope"; it explains the tradition of tipping the dancer and the customers give it to the wait staff when they pay the check. This assumes that the wait staff is happy to put the envelopes in a safe place for you and make sure that you get them at the end of the evening...

-- maia

If entertainment is there regularly, then they do have no excuse. I'm wondering if those who set up the party did not share the dancing aspect with the others, so they weren't prepared for entertainment or have the extra money for tips.

A story that may explain some: I *have* been at other restaurants that do not regularly have entertainment, and they do happen to that night. One night in particular it was 2 friends last night in in the state, they were moving many many hours south, so we wanted to talk to them. There happened to be a traveling band, and they came over to every table to play. Too loud to talk over, so you listen and feel obligated to tip, but you really didn't bring the money to tip. How does one nicely tell entertainment "not now"???

On the flip side: I'm going to see my teacher perform this week, and I am collecting my money for tips. The the question is how to best present tips, decisions decisions. ..g.:

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I see what you're saying, but I don't understand why a party would book itself into a place where the featured attraction is a floor show and then go out of their way to ignore it or even give the dancers dirty looks like we're intruding upon their celebration. It's weird.

Originally Posted by maiaraqs

Hi, all,

At Sausan's restaurant (Al Masri) in SF, they provide each table with a "tip envelope"; it explains the tradition of tipping the dancer and the customers give it to the wait staff when they pay the check. This assumes that the wait staff is happy to put the envelopes in a safe place for you and make sure that you get them at the end of the evening...

-- maia

I've always been curious, how much does Al Masri pay its dancers? I heard it is run by a retired dancer, so are the rates any higher than what is normal in SF?

Originally Posted by mish_mish

It sounds to me like the lack of Middle Easterners is a big problem. Culturally, they understand the aesthetic and set the stage for accepted/expected audience behavior at a belly dance show (you show off your money!).

I'm wondering what happened besides the smoking ban that has turned off the Middle Eastern clientele? Because if YOU can't get tipped, there's really no hope for the rest of us.

I danced at a restaurant grand opening last night that was attended by no less than 200 Middle Easterners. My show was at 12:30 AM. I was tipped exactly $10.00 by a couple that have seen me perform at another restaurant I dance at. I did however get accosted by some huggy drunk guy and lots of younger men calling my name and dancing with me. I also got some random disapproving looks from some older women in the crowd. Now mind you , I am a very family friendly show. I was so upset about the tipping. I swear I think people are just cheap. Even after getting the $10.00 tip, I still had no others. On the opposite end of the spectrum. The week prior, at the same restaurant that had their grand opening party, I was tipped 35.00 by one table. They called me over after my set 3 times to give me more money. Now that I can live with!! ..l;,

After my show, I used to visit each table and welcome them to the restaurant, ask them if they were enjoying their meal, make small talk, etc. Just a few minutes at each table to make the guests feel welcome.

I found that many people had questions and it was a great way to educate people. I also discovered that many times I would get additional tips from people that were either too embarrassed to tip while I was dancing or had needed to get change.

Of course, this assumes that you manage to get the point across that tipping is acceptable in the first place. We usually had someone in the restaurant "seed" the crowd.

When I worked at Caesar's Palace, we were brazen enough to wear a $5 in our costumes from the beginning of our entrance. LOL. But that was a high-end expensive restaurant, and it was easy to make well over $100 in tips a night. $5 & $20 dollar bills were normal. (Gosh I miss that place..hehehe)

I like the table topper idea myself..

but I'm interested in the part of the discussion about why this might be happening, too. It sounds like the showtime change, lack of hookah, and less of a Middle Eastern crowd all probably have a LOT to do with it. I've always enjoyed the experience of performing much more when theres a significant portion of the crowd that understands the dynamics of the show. If there are several members of the audience that are comfortable with how it works, having fun and perhaps demonstrating how to be a good audience member, their energy and example flows to the rest of the crowd too.

Another thought I had as to why: I'm wondering if it might have anything to do with the fact that everyone's a "bellydancer" now? In the last couple of years, bellydance has really become more of a household word, and maybe there is a lack of interest from both the GP and the middle eastern crowd? About 7+ years ago, bellydance and the middle east were still very mysterious and exotic to the GP, and middle easterners could attend these types of places and still have something unique that reminded them of home. Now their dance is dominated by a bunch of would-be-ers (sorry if that sounds harsh to anyone, I'm one too...) and it's less of a "remind me of home/remind me of something exotic and mysterious" experience for all?

eta: I think the economy could very well be part of it. I'm noticing changes right now as I'm looking for work. Also, I wanted to add that I think our society in general is becoming more rude and selfish with each passing minute. I can't believe how rudely I've been treated this week by "customer service" folk. Or the looks I get from people sometimes, people are incredibly snobby these days. It's really reached an all time high.

Yes, a paragraph about tipping ettiquette eg how to tip the dancer, will give people the hint that it is an accepted practice.

Just curious, are other dancers in your area facing the same situation?

I think it may be a generational thing as well.

Originally Posted by joanneraks

If there are several members of the audience that are comfortable with how it works, having fun and perhaps demonstrating how to be a good audience member, their energy and example flows to the rest of the crowd too.

Joanne, that is really well said.

Excuse me while I go off on a rant for the next few paragraphs. This thread is so timely - I was going to start one almost exactly like it myself this morning after this past weekend!

I was so livid - I danced on Saturday night to a packed restaurant and received almost no tips.

There was a large party for 17th birthday. Thirty 17 year olds who looked like they'd rather die than get near the belly dancer. And a mom and older brother who were uncomfortable with everything about the restaurant, including the belly dancer. In fact, the whole party was miserable over everything (ew, the dancer, ew, we eat with our hands, ew what's that? The waiters were going batty). Why on earth would you have a party at a place that you didn't like?

As soon as I walked out, I could feel the audience was not into it. But I perservered, had fun, got the 17 year olds up and having fun, and felt pretty good.

But no one was tipping - there was almost no one in the audience who had been to the restaurant before or saw a belly dancer before, and they did not know what to do or felt uncomfortable.

But I was SO livid over that party of 30 17 year olds. I didn't get one dollar from that party, after coming out 3 times, getting people up to dance, getting them to have fun, etc. I don't expect teenagers at a party to tip me, but it would have been nice for the mom or brother to slip me some $$$ - if only to say thanks, that they appreciated how hard I worked to get those sulky kids into a good mood.

Middle Easterner's use to tip a lot more in DC, but I think it can be explained by a steady decline in appreciation for live entertainment, Saudi money running dry and economic depression (maybe the third thing caused the first and second, but whatever.) Now, it's just not the same. Good tips seem to only come from older types who are either more financially stable or more appreciative of entertainment. Ahhh...kan zaman...

The Americans don't always seem comfortable giving money while there is dancing, and some try to give me a one dollar bill. Otherwise, most people from outside North America seem comfortable with the idea of giving the live entertainer a twenty...

Seed money and talking afterwards to people who enjoyed your show work wonders, like people suggested here. When I went to Egypt, I noticed that singers and dancers don't do sh--t for you until you tip them, or until they see how much they might be potentially tipped. It's something to think about as a dancer here...

Otherwise, we dancers should charge enough so we are still fulfilled even when it is a slow tipping night. People just don't seem to tip as much anymore, so we have to charge accordingly.

I don't know if this is a Midwest thing, but I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with body tipping. I've spoken to some who like the dancer very much and feel it's somehow disrespectful to the dancer to touch her. And then money showers can feel show-offy - "look at me get up on stage and show how much money I'm tipping the dancer." So alternatives as mentioned above I think would be worth a try.

TH,
you must be reading my mind, I have been thinking about this since starting with you all there. I am sure that all of the ideas have been tried before, but is it worth a shot to try some of them again.
I saw a video on youtube: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f07S-hK2lo8&feature=related]YouTube - belly dancing at Carousel Restaurant 1[/ame]
That shows dancing at the Carousel restaurant where Jillina's students dance. As you watch it you see the same guy collecting the money and tipping the dancer and then showing the dancer who tipped her so she can thank them. I lOVE this idea.
I wonder if the gentleman that we have for "security" between shows on Friday and Saturday nights could act in this position. A sign could be posted in each stage area or on the tables that says "If you are interested in tipping our beautiful dancers, please ask your waitstaff" or something like that.
If that encouraged tipping, I certainly would tip out that person who assisted us. Maybe good for weekends at least.
I do think that some seed money also helps. When I danced last week (on a Wednesday even) there were only 4-5 tables there but Brandy & Lisa came to watch me and they tipped $10 I think. But that led to 3 other money showers and I walked out of there with $35. Not bad for a wednesday!
I could tell that a lightbulb went off for the other tables when they saw Brandy do the money shower. They had no idea how to show their appreciation.
Do you think H & J would go for the signage and using the security guy or a waitstaff for tipping?

It looks so nice on that video, classy and makes a big production out of it.

Originally Posted by yeli

TH,
you must be reading my mind, I have been thinking about this since starting with you all there. I am sure that all of the ideas have been tried before, but is it worth a shot to try some of them again.
I saw a video on youtube: YouTube - belly dancing at Carousel Restaurant 1
That shows dancing at the Carousel restaurant where Jillina's students dance. As you watch it you see the same guy collecting the money and tipping the dancer and then showing the dancer who tipped her so she can thank them. I lOVE this idea.
I wonder if the gentleman that we have for "security" between shows on Friday and Saturday nights could act in this position. A sign could be posted in each stage area or on the tables that says "If you are interested in tipping our beautiful dancers, please ask your waitstaff" or something like that.
If that encouraged tipping, I certainly would tip out that person who assisted us. Maybe good for weekends at least.
I do think that some seed money also helps. When I danced last week (on a Wednesday even) there were only 4-5 tables there but Brandy & Lisa came to watch me and they tipped $10 I think. But that led to 3 other money showers and I walked out of there with $35. Not bad for a wednesday!
I could tell that a lightbulb went off for the other tables when they saw Brandy do the money shower. They had no idea how to show their appreciation.
Do you think H & J would go for the signage and using the security guy or a waitstaff for tipping?

It looks so nice on that video, classy and makes a big production out of it.

I do like this idea and I always have. I wonder if we can get them to agree to it?

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I do like this idea and I always have. I wonder if we can get them to agree to it?

What if you could show them the video and how classy it shows the restaurant to be?
When I danced on the Saturday, the gentleman escorting me between stages was just standing there in between, I would think he could be tapped to do it.
I think they overall just need some new marketing campaign though, you can tell sales are suffering overall in the restaurant. The poker tourney seems to be the biggest hit right now. Those people REALLY don't want to give up their winnings i bet.

On Jillina's Drum Solo DVD, there's footage of her dancing at Carousel with the same tipping/money shower procedure. I remember seeing it as a baby dancer and thinking what an amazingly high-class establishment it must have been filmed in. It just gives an overall impression of great ceremony, and I bet the audience would really dig it.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

And then money showers can feel show-offy - "look at me get up on stage and show how much money I'm tipping the dancer."

I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing, too. I grew up in a heavily Arabic community and it was very common for people to make a show of spending money. Clothes were designer. Cars were sporty. Homes were posh, and holy cow, were the weddings were elaborate. It was about projecting an image of success.

In a lot of places in the U.S., especially among the Midwestern, non-Arab, middle class, calling attention to how much money you spend or make is considered crass. So when you mention that, I can see how showering a dancer with cash might fall into that category, if people are unfamiliar with the tradition. So if there are fewer ME audience members, a drop in tips makes sense.

I also think over the past few years, people have stopped carrying cash very often and they go out and think "Oh, darn, I'd love to give that girl a tip, but I forgot to go to the ATM." Now, it's rare to find even a local hole-in-the-wall coffee shop that doesn't take plastic. I know I personally carry cash a lot less, but if I know I'm going to be some place with performers, or in a crowded bar where I don't want to leave a tab, I get cash.