Thread: undercutting

It's such a mess. This dancer is so used to getting NOTHING and dancing anywhere at any time, that those of us with higher standards just can't make it. When I was more motivated to dance for pay, I was closer to her and she just didn't understand why I didn't want to take the gigs she offered me. I didn't like that the owner of one of the places felt no qualms about canceling us after we showed up. She just sided with the business and felt like the owner was like family to her and so she would take his misogynistic sh*t. She was also willing to give dance slots to women who clearly weren't ready to dance because they lacked professional costumes. They weren't bad dancers, but it made me realize that maybe I wasn't all that either, since her standards were so low and she was ready to hire me in a heartbeat. It just breaks down the quality across the board. I want to be hired because I can dance, not because I will dance.

The big employer of dancers here pays $50 for 1, 2 or the very rare but occasional 3 sets. Yeah, you got it. You get paid regardless of how many sets you do. What's wrong with that picture? It's been this way since before I even thought of dancing. This isn't undercutting per se, but it's much lower than the newer restaurants in the area. The dancers around here have formed a sort of "guild" where most all retaurant gigs are scheduled by one lead dancer. We don't have terrible undercutting issues for that reason, but we're also a small community. I can see how it wouldn't be possible in larger cities.

It's really hard to argue with people who think $50 is good pay--because it is better than what they got before, so in their eyes, things are improving!

A client is not only paying me for a 20 minute show:

They are paying me for every minute I have spent in the dance studio since I was 2 years old.

They are paying me to "rent" my costume for 20 minutes.

They are paying me to put on precision makeup, fake hair, false eyelashes.

They are paying me to dance through menstral cramps, colds, pms, breakups etc.

They are paying me to put together a custom cd for their event.

They are paying me to tolerate/ignore/make light of the occasional off color comments about my anatomy.

I should charge a lot more!

[QUOTE=mish_mish;101911]We have cheap dancing down to a science here. Hubby and I went out a few nights ago to a local hookah restaurant/bar place. We walked in and the dancer was performing. I immediately recognized her and she's nice, but she's notorious for underselling herself. Her back was to the door when we came in but I immediately recognized her by the ratty costume she's been wearing for at least 4 years. Before we could be seated, I just turned and walked out. I couldn't face her. It just disappoints me to see her. She is a good dancer too, but she's a product of the belly dance biz in Sacramento. It is really sad. She cannot afford a better costume. Everything she has is worn out and falling apart. She's beautiful, but she just looks unpolished all the time.

She sounds like a Jodette dancer. Oh, how I wish people would stop calling that quacky old woman! It disgusts me how the local media salivates over her and refers to her as the "only authentic teacher in Sacramento" - there are PLENTY of genuinely talented dancers that have NOT let Jodette's whore-dancing influence them in Sacramento!

Check out the date on this thread---it's a zombie.

I have a day job that is non dance related. I run a studio and gig.
I don't think it has anything to do with having another job. (I think if they didn't they'd still do the same thing) I have another job because in my area I simply have to, I could never make it on gigging. That being said, I charge higher than almost everyone here. I don't give away gigs for almost nothing because I have another job. Just the opposite, I don't have time to go out and dance for nothing! It better be worth my while! After working 40 hours and teaching/running the studio all week I only want the good paying gigs. I think the undercutters do so because they simply, underneath it all, don't feel they are good enough to get the going wage and in some cases they are right but they wont stop gigging and go get more training. Same can be said for undercutting teachers.
It will always happen, undercutting, in everything. So, steal yourself against it by keeping your prices as you see fit and don't worry about the rest!

Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar

(PS...the calls from clients who say 'I just talked to a dancer who said that she'd do the party for $100', I interrupt them and say 'PLEASE get off the phone and call that dancer back! You've found yourself a bargain basement deal and if price is more important to you than quality, you should absolutely book this student....yes...student.'
Gia

Gia, this is brilliant! and I plan on quoting or paraphrasing you the next time one of "those" clients is on the phone, if you don't mind.

Originally Posted by samiramirage

A client is not only paying me for a 20 minute show:

They are paying me for every minute I have spent in the dance studio since I was 2 years old.

They are paying me to "rent" my costume for 20 minutes.

They are paying me to put on precision makeup, fake hair, false eyelashes.

They are paying me to dance through menstral cramps, colds, pms, breakups etc.

They are paying me to put together a custom cd for their event.

They are paying me to tolerate/ignore/make light of the occasional off color comments about my anatomy.

I should charge a lot more!

AMEN!

Originally Posted by Susanna

well, they asked me to help them promote (I put it on my myspace page, the end).

So I guess that was a motivation for me promoting for them. The more I promote, the more people come, the more money I get? Except they forgot one thing, I'm a belly dancer, not a promoter. Those are two different professions. Sorry, just venting.

Unfortunately, these days having to wear the promoter hat isn't uncommon - it's happening to instructors also.

It's always been a part of the fine artist's nightmare too - nightmare that is for people who aren't natural born promoters - people who are very shy and hate to go around to galleries schmoozing and talking themselves up may never get into a gallery in the first place - same with the dance - one might be a very good dancer and get work but promoting and becoming really well known is something else.

It's a sad fact of life that people who are good at promoting are going to get more attention. In hard economic times we are all kind of stuck having to invest time, money and energy on advertising, making connections etc - it isn't enough just to be good - maybe it never was.

But when times are hard it's especially difficult just to do your job and do it well.

As far as the economic angle - obviously workers and artists SHOULD NOT have to spend their own money promoting restaurants, galleries, clubs etc but increasingly this is becoming the business model - and as I say in the fine art world it's always been an aspect of it.

In fact it's difficult for poor people to get going at all because that old adage is true: it takes money to make money.

Regardless, performers in nightclubs, when I was working at it we were pretty much expected to pull our own weight economically. We weren't window dressing. Either you had a following or you did not. If not, you didn't work for long.

But not getting paid?

That that did happen and sometimes people went along with it - I did not. The night I didn't get paid is the night I walked.

On the other hand - look at the tipping system.

For workers who depended primarily on tips that essentially really is what transpired - if it was slow you got a certain base that often wasn't much and if you didn't get tips on top of that you suffered. On the other hand you could really make out on nights when the money was flying.

I like to think about those nights.