Thread: A question for studio owners . . .

. . . past or present (or for anyone who has information about this topic):

In selecting your studio site (sites, if you've relocated), how important was studio visibility to foot/street traffic?

In other words, was one of the primary reasons you chose your studio space because it was very visible from the street?

If you've had a couple of studio locations, was one more visible than the other? Is/was there a difference in your student population between the two sites (allowing for natural growth by word of mouth)?

How do your new students find you? Do you track how your students find out about you?

Anything else you can think of that's related to these questions?

Should I just sign off and wait for responses now?

Probably?

Okay.

Deborah

Hi Deborah!

I have not been a studio owner (other than teaching out of my own studio on my private property, to which these questions would not apply) but I would think that if you were planning to lease a space that would be yours 24/7, at the very least you would want it to be easy to find and get to, even if not street visible. Funny enough, I think easy freeway proximity can be a factor, unless your studio is in a neighborhood where you already have a strong student base. Also, consider the parking issue, as that can be important. Is there plenty of parking so that students won't arrive for class and find they have nowhere to park?

Hey - if you are planning to open a studio anywhere near me and you need to fill time slots, let me know... I'll rent from you! Right now I can only get Sundays and Mondays, and I would sure love some Tuesday and Thursday slots...

: ) Lilla

Actually, your situation did come to mind as I was posting, Lilla! I was thinking that you actually could provide a lot of information, particularly because you are "invisible" from the street.

Deborah

You haven't had a lot of responses so I'll chime in as a student...

Easy access via both car AND public transport is more so an issue for me rather than being able to see the studio from eye level on the street... somewhere within walking distance of a bus stop or train is very important.

If you are a good teacher students will find you via word of mouth but advertising in local papers and perhaps having 'flag' signage out the front of the building definitely helps...an old teacher of mine was in a strange area which had a lot of passing traffic so she hung a professionally made banner from the building which said it was belly dancing studio and had the studio name and phone number on it.

Also, in terms of the studio being 'visible' I hope you just mean the front desk...I'd hate to be in a class where people could watch just as they were walking past...

wow, when i think of some of the places I've gone to for classes over the years...the most interesting one was in a semi-vacant building in the city where you had to go up loads of stairs and then through a rabbit warren of corridors to (eventually) find the place...you would have thought we were a secret society rather than a belly dance class! LOL

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Actually, your situation did come to mind as I was posting, Lilla! I was thinking that you actually could provide a lot of information, particularly because you are "invisible" from the street.

Deborah

Well as far as my home studio, there has been no problem filling my classes because most of my students either followed me from the studio I used to teach out of before that, or referred by other students, or through the internet. (In fact the biggest problem has been not having enough space and having to turn students away every session, so I definitely vote for more square footage!) But that's a whole different ballgame because all I had to do was fill my own classes, not seven days a week worth of classes day and evening. At the studio I used to rent, they were in an odd location with very little visibility, and my classes and the owners yoga classes were the only ones that were full all the time - the rest did not bring in enough revenue to pay the bills and eventually they had to shut down, which was how I came to teach at my home studio.

I think that if you have enough teachers with a solid following, visibility doesn't matter that much (though parking still does if you don't want to anger your neighbors...) so if you are thinking of leasing a space by the month, you would want to consider how many classes a week at what income per class you would need in order to make it profitable, and determine if between yourself and other teachers, you think you could bring in that kind of business. Remember that the weekday hours are a lot harder to bring in students for, as kids are at school and adults are at work, but some weekday classes can definitely help.

My home studio worked great for me (though now I'm teaching most of my classes out of a commercial studio again) but if I had needed to pay a monthly rent on it, it might not have been so great.

I've only had one location, and I chose it 'cuz I can get there on my scooter.

Seriously, though, having only one location leaves me with no hard comparative evidence so I don't really know how I can help you.

When I read your question my initial thoughts were that yes, visibility is important. But then, I operate all my classes out of spaces with zero visibility - I hire space in other locations (a university, a community gym and a primary school) and have only just got permission in one location to put a sign outside. Yet many of my classes are full, and have been successfully running for a few years now. I think that, while visibility is great to have, you can make up for it if you don't have it by advertising, advertising, advertising. Every single term. No advertising, no new students.

My website has probably been my most successful marketing tool, followed by Yellow Pages and local paper advertising. Also, I put maps of the venues on-line so that, when new students do decide to come along, they can find the place (they're all a little tricky).

To be honest, I only operate one-two days a week in each location, so it's possible that a visibile studio would be necessary if I wanted to fill up a whole week.

Our studio is on the 2nd floor of an old dept store. I get more phone calls from my sign in the 2nd floor window than anything. It's high enough so that more people can see it across the parking lot and other buildings, whereas having one on the ground level, no one could see anything because the parking lot full of cars is in the way.

It's also a comfort level for the students. I wouldn't want to learn to move my body with a window so that people could watch!

Just food for thought.

So it seems that visibility, although desireable, is not necessarily required.

That makes sense, especially with a dance form that is so specialized like belly dancing.

Thanks, everybody, for your feedback!

Deborah

Deborah, I have a slightly different view on studio location. I chose my teaching location for its proximity to a major highway that links 2 prominent cities in my area. I consider that a major selling point in attracting students. However, when it comes to visibility, I maintain a low profile. There is a small poster in the window (I rent a very nice yoga room at a natural food/alternative health treatment center) but there's no big sign, and I don't list the exact location on my webpage. The address is given to students after they register, although I will tell them where it is in general terms. I worry about weirdos lying in wait and accosting my students at night. Maybe I'm overly cautious. I teach two nights a week, ending at about 10 PM, and I worry about the safety of my later students.

I would love to have a studio that's accessible by public transportation, but the bus and light rail service is pretty pitiful. ,f::

Proximity to your expected student base and to major thoroughfares is often very important. I know of some rental units about 30 seconds from the freeway here and, at least at one time, the rent was more than reasonable (one of my old bosses had an office there). Maybe I should check it out.

Deborah

Well...I'll chime in here. I co-owned a franchised ballroom dance studio for 7 years. Our market is different, but I'm going to share my thoughts anyway.

Our national office felt that street exposure was very important. High visibility on a prominent street. It pays for itself. I don't think it's impossible to have a location that's a bit more hidden, but you should take a few things into consideration. Is the area safe and well-lit at night? Is it busy enough that single-women are going to feel comfortable walking to their cars?

Even though some students don't like classes being visible from the street, the reality is that activity inspires activity. So when people can see dance classes going on from the outside, they are more likely to walk in or inquire about lessons. From a marketing standpoint, it works wonders (even though some people don't like it). And as the owner, you'll set the tone. If you act like it's no big deal...then others will follow your lead.

*other random thoughts*: Don't spend a ton of money on yellow pages advertising. Get a small in-column ad. Keep it simple and make sure you include a website. Spend more on having a nice website and SEO than yellow pages. Truly...it will pay off in the long run.

Hope that helps.

Samira
www.bellydanceintensive.com

Oh yes, I didn't mention that I had 2 locations. Both were on busy streets, but the one in the "nicer" area was always busier and attracted higher end clients than the one near the college...even though it wasn't as centrally located or as easy to access. But, in the Ballroom world, we would marketing to upper middle-class singles & couples...people with more disposible income. And we primarily sold private lessons, not group classes. Anyway...consider your own market.

Samira

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Proximity to your expected student base and to major thoroughfares is often very important. I know of some rental units about 30 seconds from the freeway here and, at least at one time, the rent was more than reasonable (one of my old bosses had an office there). Maybe I should check it out.

Deborah

Hmmmm....is it time, Deborah????? ..g.:

Visibility is great if you can get it, IMO. I do get people who discover my studio because they were in the little shopping plaza where I'm located. But that's only a few.

The bigger issues I found were
- Having enough parking available (this was a dealbreaker with lots of locations)
- Well-lit, safe area for women at night
- Neighbors who won't mind the noise/aren't there in the evening

Other than that, people will travel out of their way for BD classes IF they feel safe.

If I could do it over, though, I'd have held out for more space. My little studio (1,000 sq ft, studio itself about 30' by 25') is already full for most classes, and I'll be lucky if I can make a living, even with full classes since I can only hold 12-15 at a time. If I had more space, I'm certain I could bring in more students, I'm barely promoting things as it is!

i'm looking for a studio, and my main concern is "accesibility", by car and public transport, rather than visibility... i doubt i'll get many students from passers-by, they all come through flyers and the website now

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Hmmmm....is it time, Deborah????? ..g.:

If I could do it over, though, I'd have held out for more space. My little studio (1,000 sq ft, studio itself about 30' by 25') is already full for most classes, and I'll be lucky if I can make a living, even with full classes since I can only hold 12-15 at a time. If I had more space, I'm certain I could bring in more students, I'm barely promoting things as it is!

Oh, Lauren, it's "been time" for a decade!!!

<stifles a wail>

There are so many dance studios in my area that I wonder if the market can handle one more. I have found a couple that will actually rent by the hour but most, of course, want on-going classes that have no beginning and no end. I don't like to work that way -- I can't stand that as a student and I can't stand it as a teacher, either. I haven't yet approached anyone with the "session" idea, like parks and recs have, but I think I'll do that and/or discuss renting by the hour. I have no place to teach more advanced classes (not even intermediates) and I need to teach those folks.

Okay, that's it:

I hereby state that within the next 10 days I will contact per-hour studios and inquire about teaching there.

Thanks for the kick in the pants, Lauren! ..g.:

Deborah

Do you mind if I check back with you in 10 days to see how it's going?

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I have found a couple that will actually rent by the hour but most, of course, want on-going classes that have no beginning and no end. I don't like to work that way -- I can't stand that as a student and I can't stand it as a teacher, either. I haven't yet approached anyone with the "session" idea, like parks and recs have, but I think I'll do that and/or discuss renting by the hour. I have no place to teach more advanced classes (not even intermediates) and I need to teach those folks.

Hi Deborah!

If you are required (or forced!) by the studios that rent by the hour to have ongoing classes, find out if it is because they really care about that (perhaps they are helping you advertise and are worried about having to add in a bunch of information? All their other classes operate that way?), or because they want the steady income from your rental fees.

If it is the former, you might still be able to pull off teaching in sessions if you don't take too many breaks--so classes are ongoing but with suggested start dates, for example, especially for beginners.

If it is the latter (they want to know you will be consistent), maybe you can negotiate both a class and a rehearsal rental fee. In other words, let them know you will teach for 10 weeks at $X/hour, then will still rent the studio for $x/hr on your break. You can use that time for your own or your troupe's rehearsals and/or to recharge your own dance batteries, perhaps.

If you are looking for a place to teach intermediate and advanced level folks who are already with you, though, I would imagine you could accommodate a place that has an hourly fee easier, as they are already committed to ya and will be comfortable with your style of running classes.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I've only had one location, and I chose it 'cuz I can get there on my scooter.

Seriously, though, having only one location leaves me with no hard comparative evidence so I don't really know how I can help you.

Scooter queen!!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Do you mind if I check back with you in 10 days to see how it's going?

Update #1: Today, Saturday, May 12, 2007, I, Deborah, did drive to the relatively low-rent space mentioned in a previous post; nothing was available for lease at that location. I, Deborah, then drove about 1/4 mile up the road and checked out another business park. Again, nothing available for lease in the size I desire. I, Deborah, then drove to a known dance studio farther up the same road and picked up the class schedule; in addition to a class calendar and fee listing, the schedule announced that I should contact XYZ for studio rental. Yay!

Next step: call dance studio to inquire about rates and availability; to be completed by 5:00pm Tuesday, May 15, 2007. Continue contacting studios re: rental.

End Update #1

Deborah

Go Deb-orah!



Go Deb-orah!

Update #2:

We'll I've called two studios, no answer, messages left, no response thus far. I will now attempt email inquiries, if I can locate wesite/email addresses!

Located more studio space in my immediate vicinity (within my town): although location of my town isn't bad, it is not on the beaten path and might be considered "too far" from the freeway, although toll road access is fabulous.

Also remembered another studio space where the folks were actually calling for renters. Hope it is still in existence. It would be a terrific location: within 15-20 minutes (max) of home, good freeway accessibility, formerly a very large and well-known dance studio.

Will make these inquiries this week.

Have decided that working from an existing studio is my best course of action at this time. If rents are reasonable, I think renting space (as opposed to being an employee or opening my own studio) is the best option for me.

Deborah