Thread: Is it possible to make it on your own?

I have been trying to get a restaurant gig for the last several months, to no avail. Went around to restaurants, and handed out my card. I have also contacted some singing telegram companies. I have a website. I don't really have any interest in teaching right now, so I haven't been pursuing that. Does a dancer really need to be with a group to get gigs? I don't really see solo acts at festivals, and all the restaurants seem to be dominated by troupes.

BTW, how expensive are Yellow Pages ads?

I'm getting highly frustrated, and wondering why I spend so much time learning, practicing, etc. just to dance around my living room! Arrrgghhh! My head is going to explode!

Yellow pages ads are very expensive, and IMO, unnecessary in the age of digital information.

Around here it's not necessary to be a part of a group, but it does seem that groups get more opportunities as well as larger gigs than individuals.

How long have you had your website? Have you done any auditions? Have you contacted any of the groups that do have the restaurant gigs offering to be a sub? It wouldn't hurt to make contacts within the groups that are working in the restaurants. Unless they do all of their shows together, you may find an in as a sub in that way.

Hey, my head just exploded on the Bordello thread!

But with regard to your topic...

Paula, the problem in our city is that our market is flooded, and we have too many bad business practices going on. I resolved a long time ago to focus on teaching, doing festivals/charity events/theatrical shows, and just the occasional restaurant gig/private party, and I am happy with where I'm at right now. However, I realize that others have different goals. I don't want to discourage you, but it is going to be a tough enterprise to break into our market and secure a regular restaurant booking.

This gets me to thinking...I think that in our community, we are brought up as dancers to see restaurant work as the be-all-end-all of being a pro dancer. It took me a few years to experience a "paradigm shift" in that regard. I think we need to aim higher. Restaurant work is fine in it's own right; I enjoy doing it and I enjoy the income it can provide (when people aren't undercutting me...sorry, baggage!), but there is so much more to do/be.

I've had my wesbite for probably 5 or 6 months. I haven't done any auditions. I haven't had any requests for them. I will try to contact some of the other groups in town. I've talked with one group, but they already have a surplus of dancers. Our market just seems so flooded right now. It really sucks.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

I resolved a long time ago to focus on teaching, doing festivals/charity events/theatrical shows, and just the occasional restaurant gig/private party, and I am happy with where I'm at right now.

I would love to do these kinds of shows as well, but it seems I'm always out of the loop on these things. I try to keep track of local events, though. One of the appeals of restaurant dancing for me is the chance to perform regularly. I like having a regular chance to perform.

For example, Nisaa, I think an e-mail went out about a meeting about rates being held. I never got that e-mail. How do I get on that list? I contacted Nandi, but have gotten no e-mails yet.

Nandi's not always quick to respond to e-mails...I think she is a flight attendant and out of town a lot. I think Lauren might have posted something on my undercutting thread, but here's the scoop:

Feb. 1, 7:30 PM, at Lauren's studio in Belleville. If you need directions, you can get in touch with Lauren through Bhuz. She might pop in here eventually.

I suspect Nandi will also put something up on Welcome to St. Louis Belly Dance! at some point.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Yellow pages ads are very expensive, and IMO, unnecessary in the age of digital information.

I worked in the Yellow Pages industry for a dozen years. Yes, it is a very expensive medium - in a major city like St. Louis, a 1/2" ad (in column, all text, maybe 1 or two lines of text in addition to your name & phone #) is going to run you at least $300 - $400. And good luck getting a Yellow Pages rep to even return your calls for such a tiny ad. On the Local level, they are comissioned salespeople who tend to care only about the heavy hitters with display ads - a Full Page ad in a large metropolitan directory could be upwards of $30,000 - $50,000, depending on how graphically complicated it is.

I think tradiational priont Yellow Pages is still valuable for some advertisers; mostly business where people need to start calling around immediately, like Pizza or Plumbers. But for something like an entertainer, where folks will likely not be in any rush and want to look around online, I think a YP ad is unlikely to result in many gigs.

Yes, come to the meeting! Details are on my home page www.lotus-arts.net and on the 'about us' page you'll find directions.

I think networking is terribly important. Most of my dance opportunities (except for the occasional private party) have come from other dancers. Go to other dancers' shows, take a class from them occasionally, come to workshops and haflas.

I think other dancers have to actually SEE you dance -- often enough to think they have a feel for your style and your consistency -- and feel like they know/trust you as a person -- before they'll think of offering you a sub slot or include you in a gig.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I think other dancers have to actually SEE you dance -- often enough to think they have a feel for your style and your consistency -- and feel like they know/trust you as a person -- before they'll think of offering you a sub slot or include you in a gig.

For me, this is very true. If someone wants to hire me, and I have to refer out to another dancer because I'm booked, I feel like my reputation is on the line along with the dancer who actually shows up. I only refer out to dancers that I know will provide the same level of quality (dancing, costuming, etc.) and professionalism (puctuality, ability to deal with inappropriate audience or client behavior, etc.) that they would get from me, and that's the sort of thing I can only tell about a person by getting to know them.

yes, i agree. other dancers have to see you perform. also, in addition to the legwork you have done with leaving cards, what has been your follow-up method? Obviuosly, follow the protocols if there is a booker and don't be a pest. it's tricky, especially with places that already have a dancer. But just walking in once and introducing yourself is not usually going to result in a gig in an oversaturated town.

Around here (Boston) I don't think it's troupes so much as networks that control who dances where (though I don't think it's as hard to find work here as where you are!). I've gotten restaurant gigs through my friendships with other dancers, and I've returned the favor by referring private parties that I'm unable to dance at to them. So go out and network! Attend haflas, watch other dancers' shows, etc.

(And yes, I do keep track of referrals...I stop referring parties to dancers who never refer anything to me.)

Paula,

Got to St. Louis Bellydancers and sign up for their email list.

Yeah, it seems like if you want to do restaurant work you'd have to belong to a troupe. And from my experience, even if you are in a troupe it doesn't matter.



Nisaa,
You're right about how we think that restaurant work is the end-all, be-all in making money in bellydance. I guess it's the main thing that I've seen.

Now you and other dancers are going to bust a gut laughing (go ahead and laugh!) For a long time I used to think that the dancers/troupes at Ren Faire, international festivals, county fairs, and dance showcases didn't get paid!!! Yeah, stupid of me to think that. The most we'd get paid was gas money. It wasn't until reading Bhuz that my eyes were opened wide. And I'm still descovering new things.

I'm planning on going to this February meeting as well.

Camille... I know I was told that the dance troupes used to get paid for Loop in Motion, until one troupe volunteered to do it for free... the organizer came to my troupe director and said 'we can't justify paying you any more when the others are willing to do it for free"

Retirement homes were one of the steadiest sources of paying gigs for us -- we all worked on Father's Day and Valentine's Day. But I read on Bhuz all the time about dancers volunteering to do them for free. (well, nursing homes, anyway, which is not exactly the same thing but I think people use them interchangeably).

I don't know about dance showcases and other festivals, though.

I'll be so glad if you all come to the meeting!

I've had my website up for almost 2 years. Although I got a lot of gigs out of it - which paid for webhosting for about 20 years - I didn't get my restaurant jobs because of it.
They were either referrals from another dancer - or a dancer asked me to fill in, the owners liked me and out me on the schedule - or one owner recommended to another. People do talk: restaurant owners, waiters, waitresses. They often go work for another establishments and remember a bellydancer, and recommend them.

I think going around restaurant and dropping of your cards will not do much - they either already have dancers, and if they don't, trust me, others already went there, and there's a reason why the venue doesn't want dancers.

I would suggest to be patient. Things will happen, and they will happen in their own time. It's a good idea to call singing telegram companies, event producers, spice up your website and get the most out of it, advertize it (for free or paid online). Get to know other dancers, take clases from a teacher who offers performance opportunities, let her know you want to dance (a lot of students don't, so you have to make it known).

I think yellowpages cost too much, and not that many people look anymore. I used Partypop, worked great. I tried Gigmasters for 3 months, didn't work for me. (it has worked for others though). So you can always try things, if works, stick with it, if not, move on and don't waste your money.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Camille... I know I was told that the dance troupes used to get paid for Loop in Motion, until one troupe volunteered to do it for free... the organizer came to my troupe director and said 'we can't justify paying you any more when the others are willing to do it for free"

I'm out and out speechless...

Eva, having a website is not enough, unless you do it right. For example, I googled your city and the word bellydance - went through ten pages and your site never came up. People tend to only look through a page or two of hits and are far more likely to select their service/item/whatever from those first few pages. You might want to look into getting your sites tags set up so that you come up earlier in the list of hits. There are articles online that can give you other e-marketing tips as well.

A good, professional photoshoot might also up your marketability.

And, as others mentioned, in the business of bellydance, networking is also a huge factor.

Best of luck to yoU!

Originally Posted by basina

You might want to look into getting your sites tags set up so that you come up earlier in the list of hits.

I just asked my husband, and web guy, to help me do some things to get better Yahoo search rankings. :) Hopefully, we can do that this weekend.

Originally Posted by laura 2

For me, this is very true. If someone wants to hire me, and I have to refer out to another dancer because I'm booked, I feel like my reputation is on the line along with the dancer who actually shows up. I only refer out to dancers that I know will provide the same level of quality (dancing, costuming, etc.) and professionalism (puctuality, ability to deal with inappropriate audience or client behavior, etc.) that they would get from me, and that's the sort of thing I can only tell about a person by getting to know them.

Laura- this is exactly how I see it. It's not about referring my friends. For me it's about providing the client with phone numbers of the dancer(s) who I feel will best fit their needs who have the right balance of dance standards, cultural understanding and professionalism.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

Laura- this is exactly how I see it. It's not about referring my friends. For me it's about providing the client with phone numbers of the dancer(s) who I feel will best fit their needs who have the right balance of dance standards, cultural understanding and professionalism.

Yep - sometimes the callers get a little testy that I can only come up with 2 or 3 names, or sometimes none if there's a show going on that we're all performing in. "Surely you know more than 2 other Belly Dancers!", they whine. My response is usually along the lines of "There are actually quite a few Belly Dancers around here, but we have a limited number of professionals, and I only refer to dancers who I personally known can provide you with the same quality performance as I would have given."

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Camille... I know I was told that the dance troupes used to get paid for Loop in Motion, until one troupe volunteered to do it for free... the organizer came to my troupe director and said 'we can't justify paying you any more when the others are willing to do it for free"

Sorry for the minor threadjack...

This is true...I think there are about 5 groups that dance at this festival, and none of us get paid. I don't mind doing this particular event as a freebie because it's an arts/educational type of event (it gives the public free access to a variety of performing arts that they might not otherwise be exposed to), and because I know all of the troupes there are on a level playing field, so to speak. I also know that the current organizer is always welcoming to new acts, but unfortunately, because the precedent was set several years ago, nobody gets paid. I wasn't aware anyone EVER got paid for this one until Lauren told me, so there you have the benefit of communication/networking among dancers...

I know that most international/cultural festivals (such as the Festival of Nations) in our area generally pay an honorarium. I am fairly certain the ren faire pays.

Back to topic!

The Ren Faire pays.

Eva, may I suggest getting your own domain name to go with your web site? www.AvaAmar.com looks a lot more professional on a card or other marketing materials than a geocities one. Since the words in your URL have the heaviest weight in search engines, you might even consider AvaAmarBellyDancer.com to help your search engine ranking.

Also, have you talked to the head dancers at the places you've looked? You might have more luck asking when the head dancer or scheduler is working and introducing yourself, letting her know you're available to sub, and that you'll happily audition if she wants to see you. Where I've worked, the dancers are in charge of who works and when...so you need to be speaking to them and not the owners.

Dancing at haflas and such will help get you exposure, too...

If you want to do private parties, maybe look into some kind of agency. Before she moved away that is how my teacher got all her private gigs. The agency knew her availability and what she could do and her rates, and would contact her with jobs. I'm not sure if they added a fee to her rate or she priced herself so they could take a percentage of her fee as pay.

I also agree with getting your own domain name. Free sites can be a good starter, but I know I feel a distinctive site is more professional. Also, set yourself up with a Myspace account, it can be a quick way to get more info online if you need to have any web work go through someone who is doing your page (or if you're slower updating your page). Plus you can network with other dancers and likeminded events/people/locations in your area.

Working in Internet Marketing, I would say you need video of you dancing somewhere on your website. People want to see this before booking if they have not been referred.

Originally Posted by gotraqs

I just asked my husband, and web guy, to help me do some things to get better Yahoo search rankings. :) Hopefully, we can do that this weekend.

Personally I would have your page title with the important keywords closer to the first eg

Bellydance St. Louis MO - Eva Amar

Have you done any keyword analysis using wordtracker?

I would also try running a Google Adwords campaign after you have video on the website.

Originally Posted by gotraqs

I just asked my husband, and web guy, to help me do some things to get better Yahoo search rankings. :) Hopefully, we can do that this weekend.

I noticed just then there is no content on you homepage. You need a minimum of 250 characters with keywords. I would move the content from the about Eva page to the home page and get rid of the about eva page.

You then need to get links to the homepage from relevant sites. I'm sure there are online bellydance directories you can do this from. And make sure the link is properly tagged with the keywords "bellydance st louis"

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

I noticed just then there is no content on you homepage. You need a minimum of 250 characters with keywords.

Wow, I did internet marketing in a past life and didn't know about this! I guess I need to do some tweaking to my site too... thanks!