Thread: dancers of age and restaurant work

not sure if THIS is the right forum, but here goes.

for about 3 years i've been dancing in restaurants and lounges, reasonably popular among young american, family, and arab audiences.....every dance job i went for, got, and enjoyed success at.......

now here's the rub.....

in the spring i quit one venue cuz of the practices of one of the owners and THEN found out from the new booking dancer that when they were 'culling' to dancers of choice, i was only selected cuz of seniority.(the others selected were all young, slim, attractive, and a new one was selected over 2 more experienced dancers by the owner in question,....cuz she was the prettiest....plus, another older, but beautiful and amazing dancer was ignored)

just this past month, a venue i NEGOTIATED decided the owners wanted to book the dancers (an interesting trend here, we've a SPATE of such changes), i had no problem with that as long as the pay stayed stable(which it has), he asked for my availability, saw the schedule.........no new names, and i wasn't on it..........tried calling, my calls were being dodged.......to this day he never returned a message (which was simply 'did you get my availability, thank you") FYI, i'm probably the oldest one there....additionally, he says the audience like the dancers 'wild'.......which is neither here nor there

prior to this, i've been complimented numerous times by arab and american and european. i had 'fans' who show up to see me at these venues.....

i understand it's a visual art......i'm 43 years old, and like every bellydancer out there, have been told i look younger.....i'm not fooling myself, i don't look 20 and never will again ......i'm REASONABLY trim, even more so in the last couple of months (tho doubt i'll look like i did at 21, again, not fooling myself).......while i PERSONALLY feel i'm 'plain with potential', i have been called 'beautiful' by ladies AND gentlemen (hell, who DOESNT want to hear that...........l;, ), but again, i take the compliment, but don't assume it's felt by all who see me.

it's also possible they don't find me pretty enuf. again, pm's would help on that........noone tells you 'yer ugly' to your face LOL

i've been dancing a good long time, had a VERY long break after a move, but playing catch-up and have been assured my performances 'don't suck':Alol:
(tho local colleagues are on bhuz, please feel free to PM me if you disagree, sometimes a clue-by-four is in order ..c:: )

my question is, i'm sure there are dancers out there who've been there, done that, wrote the book thru this very thing..........where to go from here? i like restaurant work partially cuz i'm a social creature, but it IS a viable form of income to offset my dance expenses and paying bills...........so NOT dancing in those venues would be a difficult choice.............

outside of parties, what other options would you suggest? the break i took precludes me teaching hi level workshops, (but AM working on that, i have 8-10 years of catch-up n boy am i tired, but happy), how do you deal with it?

tho i doesn't REALLY hurt my feelings, and my self-esteem isn't dashed because of it, but it IS a blow to the ego, AND it makes you wonder if it's worth going into another venue looking for work......

i'm not the only one who'd come across this either....i'm not ready to retire, but i'm also not entirely prepared for what MAY be age-ism and not 100% sure how to handle it.........

before the 2nd 'drop', i had resolved many changes towards long term goals,....changing my body shape successfully, maintaining healthy skin (without surgery or botox, yay! i'm a chicken when it comes to that), and a new stylish haircut were a start, with positive results.....however, the question remains, where to go from here?

venue owners are entitled to their opinion, and dropping due to age is only a supposition(tho many feel it strongly), so 'getting' them legally or thru the community may not be the best approach....ANY feedback is welcome

thanks

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. All I can say is I feel for ya .... and I seriously do.

I started feeling self conscious about my age for performance purposes in my forties and did my last paid restaurant gig at age 47. Everywhere else had pretty much dried up by then and the only reason I did that one was because I was requested by the clientelle. It was clear the restaurant had no intention of hiring me on a regular basis. Looking at the video of that performance, I actually looked pretty good and not just for my age, either. Of course, I'm looking through even older eyes now, so maybe I just didn't look as good to them at the time.

As for the dancing, I consider that a non-issue. There were never complaints on those grounds and always plenty of compliments. I was even the favorite of the owners at one restaurant where I was a regular. They asked me several times to be the scheduler, but I couldn't put in the time for it. People would come in just to see me. But as I stuck to my guns regarding pay and younger dancers started coming in who were willing to stay longer for less, I found myself getting pushed out. Years later, when I returned as an audience member, the owner once again announced to everyone his admiration for my dancing. So all of that doesn't matter when it comes to restaurant work. It's all about the age, girl, and that's just the nature of the beast.

Dancers have a very short life and the beauty of this dance is that it has a longer life than most. As far as payment, if I wanted to look for ways to dance that were profitable, it would have to be in the workshop arena, as you said.

All I can say is, if you're determined enough, you will find a way. For me, I'm done, but that's because I have other issues, too.

pssssssssssst ruta.. you suck! JK!!!
luckily i haven't had to deal with agism. maybe in the reverse for private parties. i always get asked.. how old are you? because you sound really young... i'm not sure if it's a question of too young to do their husband's party or too young you must be really inexperienced and we dont want that.

Originally Posted by latriamou

pssssssssssst ruta.. you suck! JK!!!

*snf* i knew i could count on you *pout/snf*

luckily i haven't had to deal with agism. maybe in the reverse for private parties. i always get asked.. how old are you? because you sound really young... i'm not sure if it's a question of too young to do their husband's party or too young you must be really inexperienced and we dont want that.

not the first time i've heard that...........if they assume you're a 'baby', they don't take you seriously, or worse, try to take advantage of you..........sucks in either end

We do put ourselves out there to be criticized. Performing arts are really tough. Every pound is judged, every wrinkle is scrutinized, every gray hair is gawked. It can be very humbling. I'm in my 30's, and though I do not look it, I have given birth, and no matter how much working out I've done - my tummy does the crinkly thing. And I have had owners mention it to me - of course, not straight forward - they are way too afraid of us to actually tell us to our face - but in the general "I have patrons who want to see another dancer for a short time and then I'll call you back in two weeks" *what is never mentioned by the owners is that the *new* dancer is usually 10 years younger then me and weighs 75lbs soaking wet and dances for less money*- It could be the fact that I'm only 5' tall - that I have dark eyes and dark hair - who knows...what I do know is that these owners end up hiring very young and beautiful newbies who may danced okay or even well - but they don't have my experience, and they (the owners) have usually ended up calling me back. Beauty and youth are blessings - but experience usually outweighs it in the end. I have noticed that especially with Arab audiences - they want a good dancer -not a stick figure with a deer in headlights look that is out of sync with the music.

I'm also 43, and I've had babies.

*sigh*

I figure my performing years are limited -- and that's assuming I can keep the weight off. I hope to do restaurants for 3-4 more years (though not the trendy sort that cater to the younger clientele). When someone calls for a private party, I'm always relieved to hear it's a 60th, 70th, I even did an 80th. I wouldn't accept a 21st, or a 30th at this point.

*sigh again* It's sad, but we ARE in the entertainment business, and looks and age do matter.

After that, there will still be haflas, workshop shows, student shows, etc. so I'll still dance...

Curious; those of you that are feeling the age a little and have had babies, do you still expose your bellies at restaurants because it's expected?

At 32 I'm already feeling like the "old" one at one restaurant (main dancer is nearly 50 but looks friggin incredible) because of baby-related damage. Is it an option to continue with a more full-coverage look, or do restaurant owners shy away in favor of young hotties?

Oh darn. You guys are scaring me - "baby-related damage". I want to make my first baby this year, but it's also only my second year of performing. I don't want to give it up this soon!

I know I have friends that have managed to recover their figures after a year or so. I have been making offerings to the gods that I will have the same luck. If not, I guess I will be investing in dresses.

Nepenthe, try to keep your weight gain in the 35 lb range and take essential fatty acids to help protect your skin. I gained way too much with my first and didn't discover EFAs until the damage was done...I have a feeling I have way worse looking skin than the average mom!

And I still bare my belly, but I literally tape my skin down each night because the owner implied that clients want to see belly.

Also use shea lots of butter.

{{{HUGS}}}

Nepenthe, if you're young and fit you'll probably have no problem getting back into shape. I had my first baby at 26, slathered myself with plain old olive oil every night and had no stretch marks whatsoever. But I do think it can be hereditary. Look at your equally fit relatives to see how they faired.

Even with stretch marks, youth is generally preferred over non-stretch marked older dancers in the restaurant world! Anyway, there are many ways to get around stretch marks with costuming (higher belts) and make-up.

Yes, "baby-related damage" is no fun! I put on a ridiculous amount of weight (like 80lbs) first time around and regretted it. second time I was more careful and put on less than 25. I was lucky enough not to get a single stretch mark. I am slowly getting back to having a reasonable figure, but still suffer from the crinklies -eugh. My tummy looks fine in the mornings, but deteriorates as the day goes on! I try to lie down for a short time before I dance if I feel self conscious, that seems to help a little bit -lol! I'm sure it is mainly psychological, but hey, if you feel like you look good, then you give off that aura of confidence.

I gained 60 with the first (oops - duh!) and it's not so much the stretch marks as the crinkles that bother me. The crinkles mostly disappear (except mid-camel)after my nightly tummy-taping routine tho.

Hmm....maybe I should buy stock in TopStick!!

But, other "aging" signs (dish pan hands, thinning hair) are starting to appear and making me think any restaurant work is going to be short-lived. I'm amazed by those of you still doing regular gigs into your 40s and 50s...

feh, I guess those of use who only get started in our 30's have not much of a chance. By the time I'm "good" enough, I'll be way too old. Hopefully someone out there will still appreciate experience over youth.

if it's not your age, it's something else. my blond (now reddish) hair hasnt helped me much in the restaurant circuit either.

Nepenthe, don't be scared! I went back to performing at restaurants three months after I had a baby... and I lost all pregnancy weight by 6 months ( although I gained a lot - 50 lbs).

if you're fit before the first baby & you get your butt right out & diet/exercise like a nut you'll be "ok". i worked in strip club AFTER my first baby.

hereditary is the big factor. in my family i actually got lucky with a few tiger stripes some women AAGGG!! second, third baby it becomes harder. after my second i didn't get the weight right off & carried it for years. when i did loose weight my skin elasticity was bad so it made loosing the weight kinda a bummer.

i've gained it back (DRAT) but actually look smoother i hate to say.

i have nice skin for my age so i've been told & i live on the desert. my advice for that is creams, peels & sunscreen. i also dab make up on the more obvious stuff. i've always done this since i was a teen. waking up at 30 & doing that is alot of damage to reverse. drink water.

there is also a big different between a young chubby girl & a fat old woman. they are just brighter fresher looking so if a club will concede weight it will still be a younger gal.

after my recent photog adventures i've turned down 2 gig. one about 2 hours ago & feel i'm not marketable up close to do them. poor me. tina

Originally Posted by nasila

Curious; those of you that are feeling the age a little and have had babies, do you still expose your bellies at restaurants because it's expected?

At 32 I'm already feeling like the "old" one at one restaurant (main dancer is nearly 50 but looks friggin incredible) because of baby-related damage. Is it an option to continue with a more full-coverage look, or do restaurant owners shy away in favor of young hotties?

I also want to say - Nasila, I've seen youtube videos of you and I think you ARE a young hottie.! You look beautiful, not older or 'damaged' at all. And a beautiful dancer too. Either way you dress yourself, I would be a happy customer to be in a restaurant where you were dancing.

I'm never sure if I would be getting more jobs if I were thinner. Speaking of young chubby girls. You just don't know. I know I am bigger than a lot of people judging by bedlah sizes and whatnot. Well, I don't get any skinnier than this so thank god I haven't heard anyone complain yet. I do know that I am sensitive enough that if I heard someone whisper that I was fat or old, it would affect me. On the other hand, I _did_ hear a restaurant diner say that she could dance better than me, and my internal response was "well, you probably could but get over yourself already." I guess each of us could beat ourselves up all day about our looks in one way or another. It's probably healthier if we choose to be willfully ignorant of all that. For example, to the original poster, I would say remember the nice things your real fans said to you. Forget the restaurant owner. Who knows, maybe he likes younger dancers because they're cheaper or easier to control. (not that all younger dancers are, but younger people in general seem to let people walk all over them - for many people, you have to _learn_ to watch out for yourself and that takes time.)

On the other hand, I feel like I hijacked the thread but I am totally saving these responses to a document about how to get back into shape/save my skin for pregnancy.

I'm 35. I've been working in restaurants regularly since I was 29, after having had two kids.

I look younger than I am, so I haven't had an issue with the age thing yet, but I have noticed that the crinklies (and the stretchmarks) seem (to me) to have gotten more noticeable with age, so maybe I'm having some collagen issues?

I figure I have maybe five years left in the restaurants. Not because I'll be too old, but because I will probably have moved on by then. I can see myself wanting to cut down on my weekly dance schedule and do more seminar shows, community haflas, and the thing I'm seeing on the horizon that really excites me - the thought of seeing my students out there someday.

Please remember that restaurant dancing is not the pinnacle of success in this dance. More and more I'm starting to define success in other ways that will have a much more lasting impact on the community at large.

I'm 43 and do not look it at all. I have no stretchmarks or crinkly skin after 4 kids, and still have a good figure, and have no wrinkles on the face or lines. (good genes and taking anal-retentive care of my skin since i've been in my teens)
However......I am not 20, nor do I want to be, and don't look 20.
I am getting seriously burnt out on the restaurant stuff, and figure I want to do maybe one more year of it. If I last that long!
I want to concentrate on throwing haflas/community shows/stage shows/teaching

reasons I want to quit restaurant/gig work:

1)I don't want to be dancing in restaurants/parties past 45 - it's best to quit "at the top" so to speak.
2) the time and effort = pay makes it not worth it monetarily.
3) I'm doing 12 hours plus flamenco a week, (there is no age-ism there) and am really interested in performing and doing more and more gigs with my instructor/troupe director (and I must confess, I like the respect I get when I say I'm a flamenco dancer, as opposed to bellydancer)
4) back in school for cosmetology, mon- fri and just don't have the time and patience anymore to deal with gigs, arguing price, dealing with ignoramuses etc. etc.
5) really really really really, did I say really? sick of the trend of the fusion in bellydance and everyone and there mom calling all kinds of fusion stuff bellydance just because there MAY be a hip drop in there

So, bottom line, been there, done that, been dancing in restaurants 10 years now, and am pretty burnt out on it. Actually, severely burnt out.

Originally Posted by nasila

Curious; those of you that are feeling the age a little and have had babies, do you still expose your bellies at restaurants because it's expected?

It depends on my mood. Sometimes I feel frick'n hot - I look at myself in the mirror and say "You are a total MILF"..l;, ..l;, ..l;, , other days, I look at myself in the mirror and say "What the hell happened to you - and where did those lines on my forehead come from"?,m:: ..cr.:

Whenever I feel like I need a bit of extra tummy coverage - I use a tummy net (they are called by many names) but you can get them almost anywhere. I bought my years ago and it's flesh colored. I noticed that whenever I danced in a mainly Arabic restaurant, the owner, staff and patrons actually seemed to prefer it. It makes the dancer more 'modest'.

I didn't gain too much weight during pregnancy - only about 40#'s. I lost it really fast - I think that's what my particular issue was - I lost it faster then my skin could keep up with. I don't have "bad baby damage", but my tummy isn't what it used to be. I did use a ton of shea butter - I lathered up daily and I don't have any stretch marks - I actually heard that the secret to not getting stretch marks was not to scratch yourself...anyone ever hear that before?..c::

Originally Posted by *maria*

5) really really really really, did I say really? sick of the trend of the fusion in bellydance and everyone and there mom calling all kinds of fusion stuff bellydance just because there MAY be a hip drop in there

As in, fusion is showing up at restaurants? That would just surprise me, since the feeling I get in my area, is that fusion is not welcome in restaurant and most mid. east nightclubs. I can only "get away with it" at haflas.

Also, though I do dance fusion, I'm already getting annoyed by some of it when I can't find the bellydance. ,m:: It's almost like the old Wendy's commercials.....where's the bellydance?

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I

Please remember that restaurant dancing is not the pinnacle of success in this dance. More and more I'm starting to define success in other ways that will have a much more lasting impact on the community at large.

Amen sister!

the restaurants where I danced , now and in the past, just like strict bellydancing, amcab egyptian stuff. Anyone who walked in the door and did tribal/fusion stuff found themselves very quickly out of work.

I'm just sick of the fusion trend in general.

Sick of arguing with idiots over my prices, putting up with crap in bellydance in general.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I have noticed that the crinklies (and the stretchmarks) seem (to me) to have gotten more noticeable with age, so maybe I'm having some collagen issues?

Please don't say it gets worse!! Argh!!

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Please remember that restaurant dancing is not the pinnacle of success in this dance. More and more I'm starting to define success in other ways that will have a much more lasting impact on the community at large

I know restaurants aren't everything in this dance (especially with the peanuts they pay here) but I still have a certain respect for the women who can keep it up into their 40s and 50s. I'd rather see a mature dancer masterfully expressing in the music that a young hottie just prancing around any day!

I'd love to be able to dance regularly with a live band in an Arabic club...but I think it takes a certain level of hotness to do that. Especially in L.A. So, it bums me out a little to know that if covering oneself is not an option, it's going to be several more years (decades?) before I can move on to something that's enjoyable and somewhat profitable (i.e. teaching workshops) especially when this city is already chalk-full of amazingly brilliant instructors.

And Nepenthe, thanks for the kind words....but you haven't seen me up close!! And, I think yer pretty damn hot yerself.

nasila - there is always laser resurfacing. . .

{{{HUGS}}}

Does that cost more than a Bella??

Originally Posted by nasila

Does that cost more than a Bella??

LOL