Thread: Sorry for my following rant... but how rude is to rude?

I work in an arabic restaurant in town... this town is by no means big, but its not small either.

Anyways, I have worked there for a year now... and business is finally good ... bellydancing as dinner and cocktail entertainment has been fully accepted here,,, and it only took about a year... AND I'm finally making great tips!!!

Here comes the "but"

When this certain group of dancers come in.. who bring their own music... and dance pretty much from the time they get there to the time they leave..
I make little to no tips!!!!! And sometimes the regulars even leave... asking me
if theres any way I can get them to sit down... How? I ask???

I have no problem with other dancers coming in and dancing...
but not the whole time they're there... I enjoy getting people and other dancers up for my 4th and 5th appearance... this seems to give the crowd time to see the "bellydance show"
that they come in to see... sword dance and all....and well,,, gives them plenty of time to tip me!!!
Then I get them up...I like to leave them dancing...

But last weekend this groupe came in and ofcourse brought their own music... AND
even practiced a routine.. which wasn't pretty... esp. when their dance instructor counted it out for them!!!

Another dance I schedule to work had similar issues her first night with one of them trying to get the manager to play her music when the paid performer was getting ready to go on!!!!

How rude is to rude????
All these girls have been dancing long enough to have some respect for their
fellow dancers venue ... and a couple of them have danced in restaurants before and just know better!
I am trying to put on a show for many people who've never seen bellydance.. and I'm trying to make some money at it to pay for my costuming, classes, dvds, cds,etc... I know some of my fellow restaurant performers hear me on that one!

I would like to know if anyone else has experienced anything like this?

I danced for four years in a much bigger city and never had this problem.
Many dancers came in but always waited to be invited up to dance...
and never brought their own music! and certainly never used the restaurant
as open dance studio practice time!

I would say this is beyond rude. Where is the manager/owner? Shouldn't he/she take this in hand and insist that the intruders sit down or leave?

What kind of place lets customers come in and play their own music?

Why would the owner allow them to use his restaurant for a rehearsal space?

This is a situation that will impact his bottom line if the other customers become annoyed. He should not allow them to come in and take over the restaurant.

Wow. THAT is definitely too rude! I swear... some people just don't have any common sense. It doesn't take an established dancer to understand what's right and wrong here.

What to do? Well, someone needs to talk to them. If you're friendly with the owners or wait staff, I'd have them politely ask these dancers to sit during your show unless, and for only as long as invited to do so. If they won't, then I'd speak to the instructor about it privately (and respectfully).

.. and firmly! ;-)

It sounds to me like they're trying to "show off" for the owner in hopes of stealing your gig away from you.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

It sounds to me like they're trying to "show off" for the owner in hopes of stealing your gig away from you.

I second that!

I wonder if the owner is "getting off" on it. Some of them like the idea of dancers fighting over their place, especially if it gives them leverage to cut your pay/increase your hours or whatever.

We all know that money talks with these guys, so I think it would be wisest to approach the owner about it, but don't mention anything about them taking up your space and ruining you show and tips. He probably won't give a rat's a$$ about that! Talk only about how they are chasing the customers away and ask him if they generate much revenue when they come in. Dancers aren't usually renowned for paying out big bucks at these places. They want to dance, so they're probably just eating and drinking the absolute minimum. Show your concern for how it's ruining his business. It should be obvious to him why you care about that.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

What kind of place lets customers come in and play their own music?

Exactly what I was thinking. Weird.

The manager in charge is a very sweet Egyptian man who doesn't want to make anyone "mad".. so he plays their stuff... next time they come in and ask him to play their music I guess I'm going to have to tell him he's making his main dancer "mad!"
Last weekend I really wanted to scream "would you guys sit the H*ll down!"
I was SO mad... the routine practice thing was so out of line...
regulars leaving and
not to mention giving new customers a scene of complete and ugly kaois...
that I could tell they didn't find appealing....

Shira , as for them 'showing off' you hit the nail on the head! its so obvious ..
one arabic customer actually came up to me and said... 'looks like everyone wants to be a star tonight, but they're making it hard to me to see my favorite star'

I'm no star! nor do I pretend to be with my little restaurant job... but he's a sweet regular... who's alittle heavy on the complements sometimes...
but even he could see how they act.... another arabic customer said "some people need lots of attention I guess"

They have slowed down alot on coming in... it had been over a month since they had... a wonderful month! But the last 2 weekends in a row with them..
is to much crap to deal with!

Is this something they had done prior to your getting the gig there? I'm having a hard time imagining that *anybody* would think this was okay, unless they'd done it before and the owner was cool with it.

Dancers aren't usually renowned for paying out big bucks at these places. They want to dance, so they're probably just eating and drinking the absolute minimum

The wait staff "hates" them!!!! and constantly b*tch about them when they're there.

Is this something they had done prior to your getting the gig there? I'm having a hard time imagining that *anybody* would think this was okay, unless they'd done it before and the owner was cool with it.

No... I got the gig a few months after it opened and pretty much before anyone knew it was there. I have scheduled one of the dancers in the "group"
to dance there before... (much whining and b*tching always followed from the wait staff because she "boses" them around)

Still, I used to dance at other restaurants and never felt like it would be okay
to go in and ask the owner to play MY music,, if it wasn't MY night to perform.... if fact because I dance in restaurants I feel like I respect the dancers venue and show alot more... and I NEVER dance unless invited to!

Hi Arella,
That totally sucks. How would they like it if the situation were reversed and it was their gig and other dancers kept rudely butting in? Especially a troupe...

Originally Posted by *Shira*

It sounds to me like they're trying to "show off" for the owner in hopes of stealing your gig away from you.

Indeed. If you know customers are leaving because of these dancers, you should ask THEM to tell the owner/manager that's why they're leaving. And ask the waitstaff that complain to tell it to them too.

Unless they're coming in and buying lots of food (in which case the owner actually makes money off their sorry butts) the owner should be listening to his/her customers and staff.

That's really, really too rude indeed.

Maybe the owner could let them know that while he appreciates their enthusiam, other customers would like to see the advertised dancer dance! So he must limit their dance time to a short, audience participation period. And sorry, he cannot take any more music requests. Maybe someone else can be in charge of the music, just so he doesn't have to say no (sounds like he has a hard time with that).,f::

Also, I'm imagining a giant gong to be rung at the end of audience participation time!..g.:

Other options...does the restaurant have a night where they don't usually have dancers? Maybe he can establish an open stage night, "happy dancer" hour, or dance party night - the idea being that there will be an outlet for their desire to dance publicly. He can also set a minimum order $ amount for those events.

Seriously, someone needs to stand up to these doorknobs..p:: Try to enlist the waitstaff to run interference!

That's very rude and just surprised the owner would let them play their own music and basically take over the place as their own little private venue.

Just curious, if this group didn't show up would the place be quiet?

Well, I have to say we used to do this - myself and a couple dance friends. We brought our own music to the restaurant because the owner didn't have any music. BUT, it was only put on for us "after hours" when the regular dancer had performed (we were generally friends with her anyway!). So perhaps bringing music doesn't seem such a huge red flag for me.

However.

I don't get up without the house dancer asking me. And even then, I sit back down again very quickly - it's *her* show. I wouldn't practise a routine - it's dancing for fun, WITH the house dancer, generally dancing "like a punter" and not dancing like everybody should LOOK AT MEEEEEEEE! That kind of thing drives me crazy.

Once when I was performing at a disputed restaurant gig I faced almost an entire roomfull of dancers, IN COSTUME, who danced without me asking them up and essentially just stayed up there. It was awkward, but not a reflection on me. I didn't do anything about it, because I knew the politics about it. Yes, these people may be trying to steal your gig. But it may be just even simpler - they think they're better than you and want to showcase it - whether they get the gig or not is irrelevant.

Personally, I'd have a word with the manager - IF people really *are* leaving because of these people (or because of the atmosphere once they're there), and if regulars are unhappy, then the owner needs to know that. AT the end of the day, though, I'd be *very* surprised if he did anything about it. They're paying customers, and no business owner likes to pi$$ off paying customers... even at the expense of OTHER paying customers. If he has sound business sense, he'll do something. But... don't hold your breath.

If you're very plucky, have a word with them yourself. Sit down with them, probably while you're covered-up in your costume to show your House Dancer authority, and ever-so-nicely say: "Hey guys, nice to see you. Listen, I know you guys are probably gagging to dance, but we (i.e. you and the restaurant team) really want to present the show before we get to general dancing. I'll come for you in my Xth set. Have a good night!" and LEAVE the table immediately, no debate. Then the "House Rules" so to speak are clearly laid out, and you know if they get up before then it's to pi$$ you off. You have to be prepared to have your words backed up though - to have wait staff ask them to sit down, to shepherd them to their seats yourself if you have to - but if you've spoken to them then you can't let it slide again.

Best of luck with it - ah, how I love this dance but how I HATE the goddamned politics. ,m::

I wouldn't do anything nicely.

They know exactly what they are up to, that what they are doing is out of line.

The owner (unfortunately not you) aught to get a grip and say to them that they are of course most welcome to soak up the atmosphere of the place, to join in at your behest but you are the entertainment and they are a piss poor alternative for his customers.
If they are putting off his other diners , he tells them he pays you for a professional show. They are a bunch of funsters getting in your way and the way of his other customers who are complaining.
How he goes about it, is up to him. He obviously likes the fact he can sell them food.But he'll act when his other customers start leaving him.
In the mean time, you can give them chilly looks , make a fuss of other diners and just take your pay and shrug your shoulders you have no tips.Also if the staff are on your side I'm sure they'll be able to do something underhand!
Hopefully the other diners will say something to him.
Who is this ignorant woman who brings them?
If she is a teacher and a professional herself and she dances elsewhere , can you have a word out of the venue or even return the favour!That's about all you can do.After all you are an employee.
I do know of a bunch who did something very similar here, including waving a banner advertising their dance troupe/class.
Some folks are just hard faced or desperate!

Maybe this woman is on Bhuz and sees what an ar$e she is!

I tried to post this last night, but my connection went down.

If customers are complaining to you (especially regulars), make sure they also complain directly to the owner. This affects his bottom line and he needs to hear it directly from them.

The actions of these girls is beyond rude--it's preditorial. You need to deal with it directly and quickly, otherwise they will learn they can walk all over you. Make sure the management knows that not only does it affect his business, you will not put up with this behavior. The next time it happens, stop the show immediately and walk off stage (see if a wait staff will support you by turning off the music so that they don't continue to dance). The audience will understand and will likely support you and make the offenders feel very uncomfortable. Once they know they can't control you, I doubt they will do it again.

Hope this works out for you. Dancers like this ought to be ostracized!,m::

Originally Posted by wigglewhiz

ah, how I love this dance but how I HATE the goddamned politics. ,m::

Amen to that!

Just curious, if this group didn't show up would the place be quiet?

Not at all!! Esp. lately!

I don't think they are trying to steal my gig. Really... I've made it clear to the dance community here that I would love to add more dancers to the schedule. Providing the owner/manager approves them ofcourse.

I really believe its an attention thing... and its out of line... and rude...

I want to thank everyone for the suggestions on handling this...
and the support... the first few times it happened I thought maybe I was
just being sensative...

In the mean time, you can give them chilly looks

Oh yeah! definatly used that Friday night when they came in... esp. to the
"ring leader of the rudeness" I do think she got some of the message....

Thanks again everyone!

I think the hardest thing is that it's been allowed to go on for a while, which these rude dancers are reading as a sign that their ghastly behavior is acceptable. If you or the owner had cut them off the first or even second time it happened, I think the confrontation would be a little less ugly than it's probably going to be at this point.

Since the manager is obviously terrified of confrontation, could you maybe talk him into hiring a security guard/bouncer to run interference? So if they all try to get up, he can say with a steeley glare "Customers are only allowed to dance if the performer invites them." He can also be in charge of putting the music on, so if they try to approach him with their CD, he can say "NO." with the same steeley glare.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I think the hardest thing is that it's been allowed to go on for a while, which these rude dancers are reading as a sign that their ghastly behavior is acceptable. If you or the owner had cut them off the first or even second time it happened, I think the confrontation would be a little less ugly than it's probably going to be at this point.

Since the manager is obviously terrified of confrontation, could you maybe talk him into hiring a security guard/bouncer to run interference? So if they all try to get up, he can say with a steeley glare "Customers are only allowed to dance if the performer invites them." He can also be in charge of putting the music on, so if they try to approach him with their CD, he can say "NO." with the same steeley glare.

Sounds like a job for the OP's spouse or SO!

You need to grab these people on the side, and DO NOT BE NICE ABOUT IT.
Let us know what happens.
I think you need to stand up for yourself.
I cannot believe how seriously rude and obnoxious, childish that is.
It's crap like this that just makes me want to leave the bd world altogether.
Unreal.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

I wouldn't do anything nicely.

They know exactly what they are up to, that what they are doing is out of line.

ditto.
that is some seriously WTF behavior.



after you've chased them off, still keep your eye on them. dollars to donuts they'll show up and offer to dance for free.

Unfortunately, I have a suspicion I know who the "ringleader of rudeness" is. If I am correct in my guess you may have difficulties resolving the issue.

Are they coming inanad dancing inc costume or just social dancing?
If they are in street clothes, stop their music and have some one announce you before you dance.
This will generally get them to sit down. Then make your music have a definate entrance part to it that they will not know how to use if they are social dancig, say something like the longer dramatic instrumental Egyptian style. I went to a couple of gigs with my teacher at a place where she had to deal with social dancers all the time. They used the place as their "disco"
and she had success with this tactic.That way there was a definate separation between the dancer and the disco queens.

Sorry for the fat finger typing, kinda ill tonite...Good luck with this, its a trickey situation to deal with.

Originally Posted by basil1

Unfortunately, I have a suspicion I know who the "ringleader of rudeness" is. If I am correct in my guess you may have difficulties resolving the issue.

Wow. This whole situation is really just too bad.

I would totally lose my temper completely in this situation.

I think you need to speak to the owner, and tell him it looks very bad to other customers, and is disrespectful to you AND the restaurant.

Originally Posted by *maria*

You need to grab these people on the side, and DO NOT BE NICE ABOUT IT.
Let us know what happens.
I think you need to stand up for yourself.
I cannot believe how seriously rude and obnoxious, childish that is.
It's crap like this that just makes me want to leave the bellydance world altogether.
Unreal.

You should talk to the owner and demand your own show and throw some words in like Respect, they should respect you, the owner should respect you as a professional bellydancer. If you don't demand this respect you will not ever get it I am afraid, the show is your show with your music and not theirs, what they do after the show is not your responsibility they can dance their heads off if they want. Keep in mind that a professional Egyptian dancer would never accept a situation like this, so don't be scared to tell the owner. You don't have to tell him in an angry way but in a firm way. So: this is my show with my rules and my music. A dancer always has to be in charge of her own show otherwise you will loose respect from your public, the owners and yourself. You will become "just the dancer" instead of the "star of evening".

Good luck !!
Amira Ates