Thread: How long are your sets for resturaunt gigs?

This has probably been asked before but I'm taking an informal poll out of curiousity and to hopefully help settle a bit of a debate between another dancer and I.

For those of you who have a regular resturaunt dancing job, how long is each of your sets? How many sets a night do you perform? And last but not least, live music or recorded and do you have a certain flow such as entrance, veil, drum solo for every single show or do you just dance to music that you find appealing to you and popular with your audience?

I appreciate anyone and everyone taking the time to answer my inquisition here...LOL! We don't have any resturaunts here that offer dancing and the gal I'm debating with hasn't been in a resturaunt with dancing since the heyday of the nightclubs. I've been trying to tell her the industry standard has changed, but she will not believe me. Course you all may prove her right too, so I'm looking forward to reading the answers. *grin*

I do two 20-minute sets to recorded music. My sets typically include instrumental intro song w/brief veil, an upbeat song, slow instrumental, another upbeat pop song, and drum solo. Possibly exit music, but most people are done watching after the drum solo, I find. I like to mix up tempos and mix classical vs. modern pop so people dont' get overloaded on high-energy dance. I'm newer at the solo thing, so I'll probably switch out a pop song for prop - cane, sword - when i feel more comfortable. My entrance music typically goes on for about 6 mins. and has several tempo/rhythm changes.

Usually my sets are between fifteen and thirty minutes (depending on the night of the week and the venue). I put songs in a certain order so that there is a flow to the show - most of the shows I do are Arabic style, so I have an oriental entrance piece, a song of some kind (could be Om Kalthoum, Abdel Halim Hafez, or some other well-known standards), a folkloric piece (usually saidi or balady), perhaps a balady taxim (i almost always include one in my longer shows), and a drum solo.

At most of the places I work, I do one set a night, although there is one venue where I would do two sets per night worked, and each set is between 20-30 minutes.

20 minute average for restaurant show.....usually not more than 12 minutes for a party gig that has a non-Middle Eastern audience (unless they specifically ask for more, of course, or want to "add on"--I always take extra music) If it's a gig for a Middle Eastern audience, 30 minutes at least, or ..... could be hours, haha! (Lesson learned: ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS bring a second costume & extra music..)

Hi Viv, I have danced the last 8 years 4 to 5 nights a week in restaurants.
I would say it depends how big the restaurant is and how many people you have in the restaurant.
I work in a large Turkish restaurant (150 seats) and it has a stage in the middle of the restaurant. My show is mostly 2x20minutes depending on how many people there are in the restaurant.
10 minutes on stage full routine and drum solo plus 10 minutes audience participation (doing the tables).
second part would be again a routine on stage this time no veil or isis wings but a spicy routine with saidi and 10 minutes audience participation.

I also work in an arabian lounge club (no stage). There I do 2x15 minutes, the restaurant is split up in two parts.
First round 10 minutes classical routine and drum solo then I go to second part of the restaurant and do a classical routine of 5 minutes.
The second show I do 10 minutes arabic pop and/or saidi with or without audience participation.

Sometimes I dance in restaurants only 1x. So I dance 15 to 20 minutes. 10 minutes routine and drum solo plus 5 or 10 minutes audience participation depending how many people there are.

I used to dance with life music in the Turkish place for years, until I got fed up with the same repertoire and the muscians never played what I asked. Now I dance only on recorded music unless there is a good band with darbuka player. If there is just a keyboard I refuse.

greetings
Amira

Most restaurant shows I do are 20 minutes to CD. Generally I do two sets but some venues only want one, so it depends on the place. If I dance with a live band, then the sets are usually about 30 minutes. Live band v/ CD again depends on the venue--some places have bands, some don't, some only have a band on certain nights of the week.

As for routine, it varies but yes, there is a flow to it similar to what others have described. Can't really say what the order is b/c it varies depending on what props I use, length of songs I pick, etc etc.

Small restaurant - 2 songs.

I guess the place I currently work is a bit more casual; I'll do just a couple minutes (5-7) for the private rooms since there's no space to really dance, and 10-12 minutes for the main room. Zills are required, and I use veil for entering for the longer sets. I do big Egyptian orchestrated songs with many rhythm changes and a drum solo.

I'm trying to figure all this out, and so this thread has been really helpful. I took notes.

I have 10 minutes, in an evening at a restaurant that features other dancers too. Some of them have 20-25 minutes, and some have 10 like me. anyway, in my ten minutes, sometimes I try to fit in parts of the 5-part routine, because I learned that from my teacher. I like the structure of it - upbeat entrance, veil, upbeat song or drum solo, optionally a chifte. because I don't have a lot of time, I never get in the whole 5 parts. So it might be entrance, veil, drum. Or entrance, veil, drum, pop. Or veil, pop, chifte, drum.

The other type of routine I can do in 10 minutes is a oriental piece like Raks Bedeya or Dala'a El Helween, then maybe a baladi or saidi, maybe a taxim, then a drum solo. I haven't been brave enough to do cane yet in the restaurant but I have a few setlists I put together that have it.

I haven't really worked out what my style is, exactly. The first set is less challenging for me and more what I am trained for. The second type of set is more what I like to watch and the music I like best, but I don't have a lot of training in that area (yet).

I think it depends on your restaurant and what the owner wants. Or what you agree upon.

I've danced before for like 15 minutes in between tables in a small restaurant with an oriental, then something slow for perhaps a prop (if they like or want a prop) then a pop song and a DS then out.

If it's bigger I'd do a little longer, around 20-30 minutes. One of the restaurants we work out here wants LOTS of audience particpation so I dance for around 10 minutes on stage, then 15 minutes through the audience followed by a short drum solo and exit. It just depends on what the owner is looking for out of your show. Some places want the audience to dance, some don't. That really determines the show length for me.

until they have run out of tipping money!
just kidding

it depends on how busy the restaurant is and how much they pay, and the layout of the restaurant.

if its a table-to-table place, i go around to each table and judge when they've had enough and move to the next, stopping when each table has been entertained and all audience participants have sat down.

if its a stage show, 20-30 min. depending on how busy they are and what other entertainment is in the lineup.

every night is a bit different and every crowd is different, so there is no set answer. that's why a pro dancer must also develop skills to read the crowd and know when to do more and know when to do less. kind of like a stand up comic, we have to do active assessment for what is working with a particular audience.

My sets are 20-25 minutes. Currently I do just one set. I have a question for those who do two sets -- do you do a costume change?



I *usually* open with an Orientale orchestral piece, but I've used modern pieces (like Harramt Ahebek) before. Usually this is about 6-7 minutes.

Then something slow... a baladi progression, sword, taxim, or maybe an Omm K. piece -- but I try to keep the slow stuff short for a restaurant. 3-4 minutes.

The next part is flexible, depending on the venue, the audience I expect, my mood... might be folkloric, might be a second pop song (if I think there will be a lot of audience participation) might be anything uptempo that I feel like adding in, or something gimmicky, or nothing at all if the other pieces of the show are running long.

Then a pop piece (which is where the audience might participate, if they so desire)

Then a drum solo -- 2-5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

My sets are 20-25 minutes. Currently I do just one set. I have a question for those who do two sets -- do you do a costume change?

Yes, but here again it also depends on venue. Typically a dancer will change costumes for the second set, but I known some venues where the dancer does not. This is usually b/c the dancer needs to arrive in costume and there's no place to change. Or sometimes if the venue doesn't want to pay much, the dancer will negotiate a lesser rate for the second set with the stipulation that there will be no costume change. Personally, I don't quite understand this negotiation option--why would I want to wait around all night in a sweaty costume??

I do two 15 minute sets. There's no stage so it necessitates pretty upbeat music for the whole set.

I always change costumes. Any excuse to wear more of my pretties!

This was a good thread on oriental routines (songs at least 8 min.): http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...-routines.html

I dance 4 sets a night. I change for each one. Two new songs for each set.

Interesting thread. I'm also curious now how much some of these really shorter sets get in terms of pay. You're only dancing a short time- but you still have all that prep and travel time.

Regardless- Here in DC/Baltimore most restaurant and nightclub shows are to CD and most are in the 20-25 minute range.
At an American audience venue I'll to an Oriental (or vintage oriental) entrance, veil or double veil, audience participation (pop), sword, drum solo, finale.
At Arab venue- Oriental, followed by something older- Om Kolsoum, Abdel Halim, (or not quite so old like Ahmed Adawiyah or Warda), then a pop song, then saidi (that might be to Saidi, Debke or saidi feeling pop), then drum solo then finale.
At Turkish venue- Vintage Oriental or karshilama opening, veil, pop, sometimes chifti (floorwork) or sword, drum solo, 9/8 ending.
At places with 2 shows I always do a costume change, always use different props and usually make the 2nd show more audience participation oriented and slightly shorter in length.
Live music shows run as long as the musicians deem it should be. We hope that means under 30 minutes.
Our regular weekly venues generally pay $80-$100 (and some more)

....edited to add that this is what I do as well as quite a few of the other dancers. I've certainly seen some dancers who do an intro piece followed by all pop or other variations.

I always change costumes between sets. Also, my show is at a nightclub, so I dance on the dancefloor. I mingle among guests too though, since I'm not really on a "stage" per se.

Greek Restaurant with mostly Americans, but often a lot of Chaldeans: 25 minutes, if 20 min. or less, the owner notices it and comments :) I normally do fast - slow(veil) - fast - prop (usually sword) - 2 songs with audience partic. People always get up to dance, and usually there are kids, so they dance, too. At this restaurant this has worked for me real well, although I don't always do props, or use candles / cane instead. (CD)

Hookah lounge: normally 20-25 minutes, fast - slow (but not too slow)- fast and the rest is for getting everyone up to dance. Mostly Middle Easterners. At one place I use no props, they just want to see dancing (cane would work, but I haven't done it here), and I often leave early, letting the last popsong go on. At the other place, I often do props (sword or fire) and there is a DJ which is better because he can work the music for me. I usually do only 20 minutes, but it dpends on the audience. CD at both places.

Indian restaurant: 2 sets of 10-15 minutes, with costume change, different props (candle / sword / veil) the restaurant is very small. I always bring a cd for a 25 minute show, and have had that option negotiated and left up to me to do whicever I see fit.

Performing for the first time at a restaurant I would go with a cd that has fast / slow / fast and a few popsongs at end to go around for tips, get people up to dance or just leave. If I know there is room, I would bring my sword and add that after the 3rd song. 25 minutes either way.

Thanks everyone!! It's sounding like the industry standard is closer to 20 to 25 minutes these days and that no one is really hung up on using the same specific order of music, but most dancers tend to use a similar flow.

Now to tell you what the debate was about. The dancer I was having this conversation with is convinced that the only resturaunt work out there is 45 minute long sets, with specific rythyms being done in a specific order, always a live band, and that no one deviates from this. I've told her it really isn't that way anymore. Most people use recorded music, sets about half of what she's saying, and that while most dancers may follow a particular flow for a set, it isn't so much that it has to be this rythym followed by that rythym.

Thanks agian for the replies! It helps to have some more concrete info from the "horse's mouth" so to speak to back up what I've been saying.

Originally Posted by Viv

Thanks everyone!! It's sounding like the industry standard is closer to 20 to 25 minutes these days and that no one is really hung up on using the same specific order of music, but most dancers tend to use a similar flow.

Now to tell you what the debate was about. The dancer I was having this conversation with is convinced that the only resturaunt work out there is 45 minute long sets, with specific rythyms being done in a specific order, always a live band, and that no one deviates from this. I've told her it really isn't that way anymore. Most people use recorded music, sets about half of what she's saying, and that while most dancers may follow a particular flow for a set, it isn't so much that it has to be this rythym followed by that rythym.

Thanks agian for the replies! It helps to have some more concrete info from the "horse's mouth" so to speak to back up what I've been saying.

Where does she get her information?

Originally Posted by Viv

Now to tell you what the debate was about. The dancer I was having this conversation with is convinced that the only resturaunt work out there is 45 minute long sets, with specific rythyms being done in a specific order, always a live band, and that no one deviates from this. I've told her it really isn't that way anymore. Most people use recorded music, sets about half of what she's saying, and that while most dancers may follow a particular flow for a set, it isn't so much that it has to be this rythym followed by that rythym.

I think the key difference between these is the music beiong recorded vs. live.

that dictates a lot of things about the show a dancer will then perform.

for one thing, with live musicians, they are reading the crowd at the same time as the dancer. So it's possible to craft a show on-the-fly that will be pleasing. With CDs you have to always err on the side of safety, and so people tend to string together a million pop songs; if the mod in the room changes, you're always just 3 minutes away from the exit point.

that being said, over the past couple of year, I have been doing 5-part routines anyway. I guess I am just old school. The difference is that I do a compressed, short version of the old-style routine and then use pop music for audience participation.

I also think it's an egregious myth that pop music must be used for American audiences, because they will think it is cool. Most Americans do NOT think arabic pop sounds cool, they think it sounds like crap disco - plus a lot of the tracks use house beats that went out of style in the 90s. It seems that ethnic crowds like the Arabic pop, and american corwds like the village-evocative stuff.



ps. sorry to keep contrasting 'ethnic' versus american; I wish I had a better term at hand to use.

Many dancers around here (the belly bunny kind, not trained) just throw on a random CD and wiggle around throwing as many different props they can get their hands on into the mix.

I did a performance at a restaurant this past week though and my sets were about 25 minutes each, and it was perfect for the audience, which was a mixed-background crowd.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

until they have run out of tipping money!
just kidding

Nothing to kid about! That's how long I make mine! I do about a 10-15 min show on the stage area, then go out and take tips and schmooze with the audience. The length of time I'm out there depends on how much they're tipping! If it's a slow night I only stay for about 5 min, but I've done a 45 min show before because the tips wouldn't stop! I actually got cut off by the owner of the restaurant (he faded my music. I still had dough to collect! grrr.).

I make my cd's with a slew of tips songs at the end, so I can exit after 2 songs or stay until 5 songs have played. I choose songs with very "ta-da!" type endings so if I need to exit, I always have a grand exit! Sometimes I'll edit a song so just the last 30 seconds play to create a "fake exit" and I'll just dance it out and keep on taking tips if they're still coming, or actually use it to exit if tips aren't flowing anymore.

Originally Posted by SummerSahar

I make my cd's with a slew of tips songs at the end, so I can exit after 2 songs or stay until 5 songs have played. I choose songs with very "ta-da!" type endings so if I need to exit, I always have a grand exit! Sometimes I'll edit a song so just the last 30 seconds play to create a "fake exit" and I'll just dance it out and keep on taking tips if they're still coming, or actually use it to exit if tips aren't flowing anymore.

very smart idea!

i wish there still were clubs with live bands and decent pay so we could do a 45 min am-cab or egyptian set with props, costume changes etc.
*sings: those were the days*

I also wonder if set times have been affected by restaurant owners adopting US restaurant industry practices like turning tables quickly. I was recently at a Greek rest. where the staff was hustling diners out to make room for the 8:30 seating. The higher the turnover, I'd guess the owner would need more, and shorter appearances by the dancer.

I was a dancer during the heyday of the clubs. Back then we danced to live music and a set was a half hour minimum. At one point it stretched to 45 minutes to an hour in the Arabic nightclubs. This is because they decided to cut down the number of dancers from 2-3 a night to 1 but need to fill the time. The format was opening, veil or taxim, fast, taxim or floorwork, beledi, drum solo, closing.

There are few clubs left in the area that have a full live band. Those that do still do a traditional show but the sets are shorter between 20-30 minutes. Most are closer to 20 minutes I believe.

Most places now have a one man keyboard. There the shows are 15-20 minutes. Most of it is all fast.

In this area dancers only dance to CD's for parties.

Short answer is 15-35 minutes, always changing costumes between shows.

At the restaurants that have regular weekly dancing, use pre-recorded music (CD), and have stages or with large/divided dining rooms that have "staging" areas, the shows tend to be 25-35 minutes long (depending on the size and style of the restaurant.)

At the restaurants that have more occasional dancing (say once a month), smaller dining rooms, and there is no stage area, the dancing is just between tables, the show may be more like 15-20 minutes.

For the live music shows, the length of the show varies...one band I've worked with seems to be not so sure what to do with the dancer (seemed maybe they were not keen on her getting tips when they were playing instead of them...) so they tended to go maybe a song or two, never more than 5-10 minutes. Another band I worked with tended to go closer to 35-45 minutes (all fast--wow!). Another band I worked with varied a bit depending on the crowd/how they were feeling, but they usually played a couple songs before bringing out the dancer, then played probably 15-25 minutes for the dancer. (Then there've been a couple bands I've only worked with once or so, so I can't really say.)

As far as number of shows...usually between 1 and 3. Most of the restaurants around here do 2 a night, but a couple do 3, and one or two do 1 a night. Sometimes for a special occasion/special night, a restaurant may ask for 4 shows from the same dancer. One restaurant here has two dancers on Fridays and Saturdays and each dancer does 2-3 shows, so that would be 4-6 shows total.

Flow of the show depends a bit on which restaurant/venue/type of audience, but in general I tend to start out with something more oriental/entrancey, slow it down a little bit (how much depends on the venue), then do something slightly more beladi, saidi or prop-ish (could be cane...or possibly sword or a beladi piece), a drum solo, then end with some pop stuff...but again it varies based on the venue.

With live music, I'm not really sure. Until the band plays my exit music. :) I'm guessing 20-25 minutes.

When I've used recorded music, usually 15-20. I have a harder time keeping my energy up with a CD.