Thread: Unintentional undercut...sad news...

I just need a place to vent. :( I am feeling really depressed right now, and just want to get it out.

Five years ago I walked into a local restaurant for dinner, and immediately thought, "Ooooh, one day I want to dance here!" Less than a year later, I contacted the owners, and arranged to have my troupe perform there once a month.

In the past four and a half years, we have come to call it our "living room". It is that place we feel most comfortable, and has become a second home to us. At Christmas we usually have our troupe holiday party there, and it has always been a warm, welcome place for us.

Last year, new owners took over the restaurant. It was great, actually--they took a firm hand of marketing better than the last owners, and they adored us. They kept bugging us to perform more than once a month, but we demurred, not wanting to feel like all our rehearsal time was spent on this place. They hired another local troupe to take another night each month (friends of ours--all was well), but continued to pester us to dance more, as they told us they loved our performances so much, and we were a good draw. We finally agreed that started in 2008, we would go to twice a month, and we were gearing up for that when...

We got word they had sold the place to another new owner. But the manager said she had hyped us, and the new owners were talking as if it were a done deal that we would keep dancing there. They contacted us, and I sent them contract information, and was eager to meet the new owners. Then I heard from the other troupe director that they had a face-to-face meeting with the new owners. Which I didn't. Tried to shrug off that warning sign, and just kept assuming it would work out. We had been there for 4.5 years, and they had only been performing there for six months. We felt if anyone would continue to dance there it would surely be us.

(continued)

Then in talking with the other director, I found out they were charging less--not that they tried to undercut (NO! They are a cool troupe, and wouldn't do that), but that the former manager had offered them less. Doing some investigation, I found out that the former manager had accidentally quoted them the price of a soloist flamenco dancer who used to dance there, completely by mistake. But when she discovered the mistake, she kept it that way figuring that our four years seniority earned us a higher rate.

Well, I think you can see where this is going. The other troupe is hired, and we are out because "the other group is cheaper".

Four and a half years in my "second home", gone because of a mistaken quote by a former manager. We cultivated that venue for years, and all our work...for someone else to reap.

I love this other troupe, and I wish them well. I don't hold them responsible at all (despite my secret fantasy that they will valiantly refuse to perform, insisting the new owners take us back on or they won't dance! Har har. A girl can dream!). But I can't help but feel really disappointed and brokenhearted.,f::

On the plus side...we have been dancing in the same place for longer than many dancers or troupes ever get to. And maybe it is time to move on. This venue was always very small, and limiting in our ability to use more dancers, different formations or floor patterns...our format has certainly been shaped by the demands of this one venue over the years, and it is exciting to think about changing that up and seeing what directions we go in. We often talked about cultivating other performance opportunities, but surely part of why we were somewhat lackadaisical about it was because we had the cash cow already secured every month. Now maybe we will be more motivated to try new places, new ideas, new inspirations...

But for now, this afternoon...is it okay if I just feel really sad, cry a little in frustration, and save the Pollyanna routine for when we meet at troupe tonight and I have to break the news to the rest of the troupe...?..cr.:

makes me think about the importance of talking to the other dancers and more than that, just demandinag a good wage. it's sad that she even accepted that soloist price but i guess she figured that she couldn't get more.

Well, she understood at the time that it was what we were getting (it was a misunderstanding all around), so she took it as a matter of course.

This just reinforces my belief that one has to take what an owner says with a grain...make that truckload...of salt. It's frustrating that this other dancer accepted a soloist price for her troupe, but the owner had something to do with that, too. Maybe she accepted that price for personal reasons, too, but every business owner can sniff out a weak negotiator. Business depends on it.

Mom gave me a copy of Women and Money for my birthday. It screams for women not to undervalue themselves!! I know this situation is frustrating and heart-breaking, but just try to be content that you're not dancing for peanuts. Think of how happy you're making Suze Orman

I think it's perfectly fine to be sad and cry a little. That is just heartbreaking!

Mourn it, bless it, be grateful for it and then look to the new adventure ahead.

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

But for now, this afternoon...is it okay if I just feel really sad, cry a little in frustration, and save the Pollyanna routine for when we meet at troupe tonight and I have to break the news to the rest of the troupe...?..cr.:

Aaaaabsolutely, baby, you just cry. Here's my shoulder, here's some kleenex, here's some arms around you.



Oh, and might as well

Thanks, guys. This is just what I need. *hug back*

what an unfortunate set of circumstances. its very sad.
hopefully you and your troupe will find a new dance home with fair pay, plenty of space and an appreciative audience...soon

Go ahead and feel sad, you're having to move out of your "home" and that's always a sad thing.

Here's hopes to finding that next great venue!

Sharon, that SUCKS. You have my sympathy, and you are allowed to be sad.

It sounds almost more difficult that the other dancers are your friends. It must be hard not to be a bit put off...or probably to have a whole gamut of emotions. And you don't have any dislike to fall back on!

I don't hold them responsible at all (despite my secret fantasy that they will valiantly refuse to perform, insisting the new owners take us back on or they won't dance! Har har. A girl can dream!).

I hope they do this, too!

And I hope you and your troupe get another dream gig for even more money!

But for now, it is okay to mourn a bit.

Originally Posted by Monica

Sharon, that SUCKS. You have my sympathy, and you are allowed to be sad.

It sounds almost more difficult that the other dancers are your friends. It must be hard not to be a bit put off...or probably to have a whole gamut of emotions. And you don't have any dislike to fall back on!
...
But for now, it is okay to mourn a bit.

Yeah it would be easier if they weren't such a fab troupe, and the director someone I really like very much, and admire. :)

And of course I don't expect them to turn down the gig on our behalf! But you know, I have this valiant "white knight on a horse" imagery that amuses me anyway.

Sorry to hear this, Tribal Dancer...I think you're right when you say that it will open up a new door for your troupe. I hate to use the old cliche, but everything does happen for a reason.

Sending blessings your way...It's a new beginning for you and your troupe!

Wow! How refreshing to see a story like this without fault-finding, blame-slinging, expressions of resentment or catty remarks. I congratulate you on your attitude. You sound like a wise woman with a beautiful big heart.

Sometimes when we lose a thing, it opens a pathway to something new and wonderful. It sounds like you're onto that already! I wish fabulous future dance adventures for you and your troupe.
Rosette

So sorry to hear that. I've only been there once (pretty sure that's where we all had drinks together two years ago) but it was such a warm venue.

I hold out hope that it will be a smashing success, and the owners will want both troupes performing as before. But I don't want to be disappointed either.

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I trust you have had an open conversation with the other troupe about it so that they'll realize the error they made and learn from it to avoid future occurrences?

Yes, we talked about it already. She feels awful. I told her I don't hold her at all responsible. We talked about our going rates, and it turns out we are right in line on that, and we will be more careful about consulting in the future. They were told by the manager they were getting paid the same as us, and never questioned it. And knowing the manager, I wouldn't have either--they really were on the up and up there, and we would have vouched as well. It was a miscommunication that came around and bit us in the patoot!

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Then in talking with the other director, I found out they were charging less--not that they tried to undercut (NO! They are a cool troupe, and wouldn't do that), but that the former manager had offered them less. Doing some investigation, I found out that the former manager had accidentally quoted them the price of a soloist flamenco dancer who used to dance there, completely by mistake. But when she discovered the mistake, she kept it that way figuring that our four years seniority earned us a higher rate.

Well, I think you can see where this is going. The other troupe is hired, and we are out because "the other group is cheaper".

Four and a half years in my "second home", gone because of a mistaken quote by a former manager. We cultivated that venue for years, and all our work...for someone else to reap.

I love this other troupe, and I wish them well. I don't hold them responsible at all (despite my secret fantasy that they will valiantly refuse to perform, insisting the new owners take us back on or they won't dance! Har har. A girl can dream!). But I can't help but feel really disappointed and brokenhearted.,f::

On the plus side...we have been dancing in the same place for longer than many dancers or troupes ever get to. And maybe it is time to move on. This venue was always very small, and limiting in our ability to use more dancers, different formations or floor patterns...our format has certainly been shaped by the demands of this one venue over the years, and it is exciting to think about changing that up and seeing what directions we go in. We often talked about cultivating other performance opportunities, but surely part of why we were somewhat lackadaisical about it was because we had the cash cow already secured every month. Now maybe we will be more motivated to try new places, new ideas, new inspirations...

But for now, this afternoon...is it okay if I just feel really sad, cry a little in frustration, and save the Pollyanna routine for when we meet at troupe tonight and I have to break the news to the rest of the troupe...?..cr.:

Welcome to one of worst realities of restaurant work. Nobody escapes this. You're lucky you got away with it for 4 years. Nothing to do but pick yourself up, brush yourself off and put it down to experience. You'd think the other troupe would do the honourable thing, wouldn't you? But this is when you discover that actually, when push comes to shove, it's every man, woman and troupe for himself.

Never mind. It might just mean there's a better, bigger gig elsewhere.

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

And of course I don't expect them to turn down the gig on our behalf! But you know, I have this valiant "white knight on a horse" imagery that amuses me anyway.

You are being very noble about this....which is entirely to your credit. However, the other troupe, knowing your situation and knowing that you guys were there first, should at least show a little ethics here. It's a very tricky situation and each to their own way of handling it. I personally feel uncomfortable about taking someone's gig, particularly if I know them. It's not like you have only done the odd turn there, you've obviously been resident dancers for a long time and to be dropped to so quickly is, though typical of the restaurant game, still hurtful. If the owner wants a change, fair enough, but at least share the gig. Alternative weeks for each troupe?

When **** like this happens, it's down to us, the dancers, to try to put things right. We must make our stand, and not let this happen to fellow performers. At the end of the day, this will no doubt be the fate of the troupe who have replaced you,, but I'm sure a little solidarity from them for you would have gone a long way. I do hope that, should you find yourself in the same situation, that you'd not perpetuate this practice simply because it's been dished out to you. I think dancers must stick together in order to help each other and keep standards, pay and equal rights a priority. But we are still a long way away from this, it seems.

"...I found out they were charging less--not that they tried to undercut... but that the former manager had offered them less." In my vocabulary this is undercutting. Whether someone is asking for a lower price, or simply accepts a lower rate when offered - same thing. If she knew you so well she should have double checked on the rate with you.

Originally Posted by Marianna

"...I found out they were charging less--not that they tried to undercut... but that the former manager had offered them less." In my vocabulary this is undercutting. Whether someone is asking for a lower price, or simply accepts a lower rate when offered - same thing. If she knew you so well she should have double checked on the rate with you.

As I said, they didn't know what we were making, and the restaurant MISTAKENLY quoted them a lower price. Yes, by mistake, they quoted them the price of a solo flamenco dancer who had been there. So they understood they were getting the same as us, and didn't know they were making less until we talked recently.

It was a group of trusting people, none of whom was taking advantage of anyone else. It was miscommunication, and this is why it makes me so sad. I can't really direct any vitriol toward anyone since it was a miscommunication. So I just felt helplessly despondent. Still do a bit.

But we have re-learned how important it is to speak the actual numbers! Because we did talk, and she said they were getting paid the same as us, and we shrugged and said "cool". We never said the numbers, which we will be far less inclined to forget to mention next time.

And Kharis, they didn't come by this gig in any wrong way. So I can't see how I should expect them to give it up. Yes, seniority is nice, and the circumstances are unfortunate, but the hard facts are they are doing it for now, and I have to be okay with it.

As I said, the good news is that maybe it is time to move on a bit. See how our troupe develops under new circumstances. It has an exciting side to it, too! But I was so bummed yesterday and needed some sympathy.

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

And Kharis, they didn't come by this gig in any wrong way. So I can't see how I should expect them to give it up. Yes, seniority is nice, and the circumstances are unfortunate, but the hard facts are they are doing it for now, and I have to be okay with it.

As I said, the good news is that maybe it is time to move on a bit. See how our troupe develops under new circumstances. It has an exciting side to it, too! But I was so bummed yesterday and needed some sympathy.

Bowing out gracefully is often the only way to go. At least you have no bad feelings on either side. No, you cannot expect them to give up the gig, but on the same score you were obviously hoping they might do this. I'm not sure that I would not be let down by this rather than by losing the gig. I do wish dancers would be more 'gallant' towards each other. Sometimes, though, I believe things are just meant to be....opening up broader and brighter horizons. At least, that's the way I look at things when they go tits up in my life. One has to be positive.

Oh honey, I'm soooooo sorry!

I sincerely hope the other troupe really didn't know what was happening this way.... In any case...all my best to you and your gals. I hope you soon find something new and even more wonderful and befitting the talent and heart you ladies have to offer.
~ M

I think I understand how you were feeling yesterday when you wrote your post. But I can see lots of positive in being open to something new and exciting! It is admirable that you had the gig for four years, but it's good to have a change of scenery. Don't skip on the mourning process-you need it to feel better. Take care. : )

Originally Posted by ejaghana

Sorry to hear this, Tribal Dancer...I think you're right when you say that it will open up a new door for your troupe. I hate to use the old cliche, but everything does happen for a reason.

Sending blessings your way...It's a new beginning for you and your troupe!

i agree with ejaghana, as trite as it may sound, this just means another door is opening for you somewhere, and you're free to walk thru it

cheers!