Thread: Help pls! Online payment for classes

Hello Bhuzzers (Bhuzzards???),

I've been thinking for aaages about setting up on-line payment for classes, on my website. But I'm not sure what sort of setup to use, or how to manage the backend. Does anyone who's done this have opinions on the type of technology or payment options they prefer? Any of you use online payment and have any pet peeves or preferences?

I already have credit card processing facilities in my home office (Visa/Master only), but not Paypal. Do I have to have paypal? How do I manage classes booking out? I suppose I could actually do all the processing myself, and so not process payments when classes book out, but is it more secure to have payments going straight to the bank? Or is there some kind of stock control option that's not too complicated?

Help, I'm clueless, and the security required scares me (what if I cause a national security breach and all my students suddenly get charged for 50 mobile phones bought in Belgium???)

Jewel

Paypal is go for people with simple needs and low sales volume. You can even set up a shopping cart with it. However it doesn't have stock control so you can't tell it to stop selling after x amount of stuff is sold.

So you may need to go to the next level. See if there are any turn key ecommerce shopping cart service websites that has stock control.

If you intend to do a large volume of sales online then you can think about hosting a shopping cart on your webserver.

One advantage of using PayPal is that all security is handled by PayPal, a company that has way more expertise in that area than most people. Makes life a whole lot easier.

Unless that is really absolutely necessary, I definitely would not host my own credit card processing on my webserver. Just the headache of having records of CC transactions and other people's CC numbers stored on my machine, and then the responsibility if my machine is somehow compromised, that would keep me from sleeping calmly at night. Let the PayPal people lose their sleep ;-)

Check Faten's site and how she set it up. Paypal is a great tool!

::::::: FATEN SALAMA - MASTER INSTRUCTOR :::::::

You could also add the credit card payment methods as well. But I agree with steff, it is a hassle. Paypal is quick and easy to use.

Hope that helps!

I do mine with paypal, too, and I use a special shopping cart service (free!) because Paypal didn't have the functionality I needed to calculate multi-class discounts.

The cart service I use is called Mal's e-commerce Mal's e-commerce and you might be able to use it with your own credit card processor, too, I'm not sure.

You're welcome to look at my setup: Lotus Arts Studio - Yoga, Bellydance and more in Belleville, IL

I do have to manually close out registration when a class fills, though.

Thank you everyone - happy for any more advice and opinions I can get! I think Paypal is not yet as common in Australia - or perhaps I'm just slow to convert. But I like the idea of other people handling the card security. I have heard that the fees are high...but then again, it can be worth it if it leads to more sales by providing an easier purchasing option.

Lauren - how do you manually close out registration. Do you have a backend to the processing facility that you can access?

another service, although it is not really meant for what you are describing is eventbrite.
it is a service that handle ticket-selling.

the nice thing about it is that you can organize batch emails, retrieve people's contact info, stuff like that. it's easy to use. You can key in people's cc info manually if necesary. you can customize the entry forms within reason. and you can set max amounts of tickets (or class cards) to sell in order to avoid overbooking. what I like is having the ability to print receipts and look at a nice, organized roster.

again it is not made precisely for managing dance classes, but maybe it might be useful for you. the money ends up in your Paypal account or Google Checkout account if you've got one.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Thank you everyone - happy for any more advice and opinions I can get! I think Paypal is not yet as common in Australia - or perhaps I'm just slow to convert. But I like the idea of other people handling the card security. I have heard that the fees are high...but then again, it can be worth it if it leads to more sales by providing an easier purchasing option.

Lauren - how do you manually close out registration. Do you have a backend to the processing facility that you can access?

Paypal is very common in Oz..g.: It is easy and secure to use, they talk you through setup well not actual talk, but they have heaps of info at paypal to be able to set things up. Welcome - PayPal

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Lauren - how do you manually close out registration. Do you have a backend to the processing facility that you can access?

Nothing that complicated. I just go into the HTML of my page and take out the link that says 'click here to register' or whatever, and make it say "this class is full" instead.

I still get registrations by mail and in person as well. So an inventory-type system would still require my manual intervention.

you could always do paypal and put a warning that says classes may be full and just refund their money. Paypal allows you to refund easily with no charges.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Thank you everyone - happy for any more advice and opinions I can get! I think Paypal is not yet as common in Australia - or perhaps I'm just slow to convert. But I like the idea of other people handling the card security. I have heard that the fees are high...but then again, it can be worth it if it leads to more sales by providing an easier purchasing option.

Lauren - how do you manually close out registration. Do you have a backend to the processing facility that you can access?

there are no fees involved if you require your customers to do a bank transfer (the equivalent of writing a check to pay you)
If you don't want to deal with fees, but still want to give the option of paying with credit card- you can always have two separate accounts and "pay here" buttons on your website. One for checks which is the price you expect for a class and another for CC payments, where you charge your customer for the 3% fee. that is what i would do! it would encourage people to pay with checks!

Originally Posted by jenlindseys

there are no fees involved if you require your customers to do a bank transfer (the equivalent of writing a check to pay you)
If you don't want to deal with fees, but still want to give the option of paying with credit card- you can always have two separate accounts and "pay here" buttons on your website. One for checks which is the price you expect for a class and another for CC payments, where you charge your customer for the 3% fee. that is what i would do! it would encourage people to pay with checks!

Yes, there is always the credit card surcharge to consider. I currently don't add a surcharge to my credit card payments. I thought about it, but having people pay via card works to my advantage - when they ring with an enquiry and get all excited about taking classes, I can take their payment then and there on the phone. It also means I can take payments before the term starts from my home office. Writing a cheque and sending it takes more time and effort, in which time, some customers might decide not to bother. So I kinda think that making payments as easy as possible is worth paying some fees for (but not too many!). And I think that online payment will make it even easier - I don't have to personally manage the transaction over the phone, and hey, people loooove online shopping (or is that just me???)!

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Yes, there is always the credit card surcharge to consider. I currently don't add a surcharge to my credit card payments. I thought about it, but having people pay via card works to my advantage - when they ring with an enquiry and get all excited about taking classes, I can take their payment then and there on the phone. It also means I can take payments before the term starts from my home office. Writing a cheque and sending it takes more time and effort, in which time, some customers might decide not to bother. So I kinda think that making payments as easy as possible is worth paying some fees for (but not too many!). And I think that online payment will make it even easier - I don't have to personally manage the transaction over the phone, and hey, people loooove online shopping (or is that just me???)!

What Jen means is that PayPal offers a money transfer service from a customers checking account which has no charges attached to it the way cc processing thru' PayPal does. Is still just a click>enter id/password>click and they've paid for their classes without incurring any processing fees for you. It really is a good option.

Originally Posted by songofincense

What Jen means is that PayPal offers a money transfer service from a customers checking account which has no charges attached to it the way cc processing thru' PayPal does. Is still just a click>enter id/password>click and they've paid for their classes without incurring any processing fees for you. It really is a good option.

Ooh, I see. Sorry, my dumb moment. That sounds even better!

Warning, this is a bit of a rant: As a customer, I get miffed if somebody tries to charge me "paypal fees". Maybe I am spoiled, but I am used to whereever I pay, my money is accepted in the payment forms advertised, at the price the goods are advertised.

If somebody is so worried about the PayPal fees, then include this expense in the calculation and set the prices accordingly - anything else strikes me as similar to a business having different prices for people who pay cash and check and American Express and Visa, a model that wouldn't fly either.

If the expenses that come with a certain form of payment are too much for a business, that business has the choice to not accept this payment - there are many stores that don't take plastic, and that's fine.

Originally Posted by steffib

Warning, this is a bit of a rant: As a customer, I get miffed if somebody tries to charge me "paypal fees". Maybe I am spoiled, but I am used to whereever I pay, my money is accepted in the payment forms advertised, at the price the goods are advertised.

If somebody is so worried about the PayPal fees, then include this expense in the calculation and set the prices accordingly - anything else strikes me as similar to a business having different prices for people who pay cash and check and American Express and Visa, a model that wouldn't fly either.

If the expenses that come with a certain form of payment are too much for a business, that business has the choice to not accept this payment - there are many stores that don't take plastic, and that's fine.

I can see where you are coming from, but personally.... I'd RATHER pay cash than have to pay those fees. Thats lost money for both ends- dancer & instructor. It is different when I go to walmart because I don't CARE if they have to pay when I use my CC, but for my instructor (its a more personal professional relationship), I would hate to have her lose the money she deserves.

I think charging everyone for CC fees is a bad idea. Either charge for CC payments only or not at all.

It's a very complicated issue: At every business, these costs are calculated into the price, whether it is a large retailer, or whether it is the bakery around the corner. Likewise, a prudent business owner will calculate what taking cash and taking checks will cost, in terms of time it takes to handle this form of payment. I am not a business owner, but I know that e.g. depositing checks and then checking whether they cleared is a pain in the neck, even with online banking.

And, I'm not saying that one should charge everybody extra fees - I'm saying that all business expenses should be calculated in a uniform price. That includes paypal fees, credit card processing fees, and the cost for other payment forms, all these need to be taken into account.

Originally Posted by steffib

- I'm saying that all business expenses should be calculated in a uniform price. That includes paypal fees, credit card processing fees, and the cost for other payment forms, all these need to be taken into account.

Yes, I like this approach, too. Take into consideration all those fees (and other overhead costs) when you set your price. Customers don't like being 'punished' for using plastic (after all, the customer is doing the business a favour in buying their product, not the other way around!), and equally, having different payment amounts can get really hard to administer for the business owner.

Here's a thought: say fees were 3%, and my student paid me $100 for classes, that's $3 I lose. Is it worth $3 to piss a potential customer off by insisting I charge fees? No! I'd rather have $97 of their business than none at all.

Originally Posted by steffib

It's a very complicated issue: At every business, these costs are calculated into the price, whether it is a large retailer, or whether it is the bakery around the corner. Likewise, a prudent business owner will calculate what taking cash and taking checks will cost, in terms of time it takes to handle this form of payment. I am not a business owner, but I know that e.g. depositing checks and then checking whether they cleared is a pain in the neck, even with online banking.

And, I'm not saying that one should charge everybody extra fees - I'm saying that all business expenses should be calculated in a uniform price. That includes paypal fees, credit card processing fees, and the cost for other payment forms, all these need to be taken into account.

gotcha, makes sense!

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Yes, I like this approach, too. Take into consideration all those fees (and other overhead costs) when you set your price. Customers don't like being 'punished' for using plastic (after all, the customer is doing the business a favour in buying their product, not the other way around!), and equally, having different payment amounts can get really hard to administer for the business owner.

Here's a thought: say fees were 3%, and my student paid me $100 for classes, that's $3 I lose. Is it worth $3 to piss a potential customer off by insisting I charge fees? No! I'd rather have $97 of their business than none at all.

And to add to this...

If you calculate your fees into your rates then every time someone pays with a check, you've just made an extra $3. That's how I like to think of it.

As a consumer and as a business owner, I HATE separate fee schedules. Just set the price and give me the option to pay how I want. Period. End of story.

LOL....sorry to sound so rant-y.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

If you calculate your fees into your rates then every time someone pays with a check, you've just made an extra $3.

Yes...and no...because every now & again someone's going to write you a bad check that you'll never recover, and THOSE fees have to be tacked onto all the check-writing customers.

I guess cash people could get a discount, but the cash tends to run through my fingers and disappear before I even get it entered in the books, so maybe they should be penalized instead?

It costs me $1.87 every time someone registers for a 6-week session via paypal. Being able to provide convenient online registration for my customers, not have to handle a bunch of checks or deal with the possibility of some of them bouncing...priceless!

Originally Posted by steffib

Warning, this is a bit of a rant: As a customer, I get miffed if somebody tries to charge me "paypal fees". Maybe I am spoiled, but I am used to whereever I pay, my money is accepted in the payment forms advertised, at the price the goods are advertised.

If somebody is so worried about the PayPal fees, then include this expense in the calculation and set the prices accordingly - anything else strikes me as similar to a business having different prices for people who pay cash and check and American Express and Visa, a model that wouldn't fly either.

If the expenses that come with a certain form of payment are too much for a business, that business has the choice to not accept this payment - there are many stores that don't take plastic, and that's fine.

It is quite common in the Uk to have different fees charged depending on whether you use VISA/MASTERCARD or DEBIT CARD(Switch/Electron), this model really does fly - Ryanair -an airline - (among others) use it :-)

The customer has a choice about what sort of payment to make - thinking from a customers point of view, sometimes I want to use my mastercard to buy with Ryanair, despite the fee, and it would be annoying if they had pre-chosen to not accept that form of payment. However, if they decided to make their other customers pay part of my credit card fee, I'd love it ! (Right up until the moment that I was that other customer - then I'd hate it !).

Also, I think this depends on the nature of the goods, if you have a mark up of 300% or so - you would expect the fee to be paid by the retailer.

My teacher used to use PayPal and would charge a 3% service fee for using it. That way - you are not out any money.

so paying by bank transfer is not very common i presume. i know it isnt in the UK either. here it's how everybody pays for everything, checks went out a long time ago.
you get someone's bank account and you use a form, or internetbanking nowadays, to tranfer the money from your account into theirs. my website has by bankaccount number on it, and people pay all their course fees in there.

QUOTE=artemisia_danst;123698]so paying by bank transfer is not very common i presume. i know it isnt in the UK either. here it's how everybody pays for everything, checks went out a long time ago.
you get someone's bank account and you use a form, or internetbanking nowadays, to tranfer the money from your account into theirs. my website has by bankaccount number on it, and people pay all their course fees in there.[/QUOTE]

Good suggestion. We call that 'direct deposit' here and it is getting more and more common - lots of people pay bills that way. I've just introduced that option for my students, but at the moment they still have to contact me for the account details and then go through their own internet banking, so it's not an automated process. It's a few steps removed from finding my website and simply clicking on to a paypal form. I'm a bit reticent to publish my account details online, but perhaps I can make more use of it for email enquiries. Hmm, good thought...

the enlgish people i know are also freaked out by the idea of putting their account details online

but really, the only thing you can do when you know someone's account number is tell your own bank to put money IN there.
i pay all my own bills (gas, electricity, phone, rent, etc etc), with my bank account into someone elses account, via internet banking. i'v had my bank account details on my website for years.

I use PayPal to accept online credit card payments for classes.
Students know that they have to pay additionally for the convenience of using the service.
No one has compliained and I haven't lost a student because of the additional $3.
Students can also pay me by check and by cash in class. So they have options and some do choose credit card because it's just more convenient!
Gia

Don't fret about putting your bank account no's. on line, like artemisia said its safe.
I have payed all my bills on-line for years and have now used paypal for two months (for transfers not cc) and its safe, fast and free and they can trace it. although not as direct as "direct deposit" cos paypal will take a few days to transfer.