Thread: low paid regular work

I keep getting offered low paid regular teaching work, for about £20 to £25 ($40 - $50) per hour, for one hour only per week, and involving about at least 1.5 - 2 hours travelling time (door to door).

Since my main focus at the moment is performing I am loosing no sleep over turning these offers down, but I have to wonder, when these places find teachers - why do they do it? After you pay tax you'll get only £16 to £21 per hour ($32 - $42). Plus your whole evening is lost.

That is a great question! I think similar ones should be asked more often around the dance community.

I had to stop teaching recently for the same reason. After all was said and done, my entire evening was shot (plus any time spent choreographing, putting together combinations, and getting other things together), and I'd only come home with about $45. Sure, $45 adds up if you teach 6 classes a week....but I just don't feel passionate about teaching the way I do about performing.

Not to mention, at this stage in my dance life, I'd much rather be practicing, working on costumes, writing copy for my soon-to-be website, putting together contracts and dance resumes, organizing the business end of things, and taking classes of my own than spend every night teaching beginners. For me, the low pay hardly makes the effort and time involved with teaching worthwhile.

My suggestion to you is to either keep plugging away and try to find a studio with a better payscale, or teach several nights a week, or otherwise try to negotiate with studio owners. I've heard that the best financial arrangement for teaching at a gym/dance studio is one where you get paid a flat rate, plus commission for any students you bring in upwards of 10.

I wonder where dancers find the studios that pay well.

Lisa

I don't want to teach at the moment, I was just curious about what motivates people to teach for such low pay (granted, it's different if you are teaching several classes back to back or nearby).

For me, I put up with the crummy pay because the studio's in my hometown, I've known the dance studio owner since I was a kid, and I've just always had it in my head for whatever reason that every professional dancer should teach, as well as perform.

Now that I have a good day job and don't have to depend so much on dancing as an income-booster, I'm content to take a looooooong break from teaching and focus on solely performing and getting my business up and running.

I've often wondered if an AFAA certification or getting Suhaila certified would help me secure better teaching jobs when I'm ready to go back into teaching again. I have no time for crap jobs anymore.

Lisa

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

I don't want to teach at the moment, I was just curious about what motivates people to teach for such low pay (granted, it's different if you are teaching several classes back to back or nearby).

That's exactly it, Caroline. The people who take these jobs aren't traveling and ARE teaching several classes back to back, either at that same location or within a few minutes of it.

I taught for a local health club for a comparable rate -- but it's 5 minutes from my house, I teach three classes there in one day, and I get a free health club membership. Even before I opened the studio, most of my classes were on a per-student basis, so it rounded things out nicely to have those three classes that paid a flat rate.

Most of the time I made more on my per-student classes (if I hadn't it wouldn't have been worth buying the insurance, collecting the music, preparing the lesson plans, etc). But I really appreciated the flat rate during summer and holiday months, when I had to continue teaching for consistency but might only have three students showing up!!

I also think some teachers feel if they are new to teaching, they should be paid lower than the veterans. Which doesn't excuse the studio from offering such a small sum. But it does explain why someone might go for that.

And some teachers aren't in it for the money. They simply want to keep dancing themselves, and a class is a way to make sure they get to do it regularly with a little pin money on the side. (Shoot, I know plenty of teachers who don't charge a dime!)

It all depends on your motivation. Certainly, a pro isn't going to teach for these rates. And like you said, you're not losing sleep over it.

Mira

The flip side - There are so many costs associated with owning a dance studio. Rent can be over $1500 per month, add that with gas and electric, marketing and advertising costs, insurance policy, phone, cleaning supplies - not to mention trying to recoup the start up costs that can easily equal $25,000, the list is endless. 40-50$ per hour is an excellent rate to offer teachers. If you are traveling a great distance however, I would agree that you need to be reimbursed for those expenses.

Another option is to rent a facility and manage the marketing, insurance etc. on your own which may prove to be a more financially rewarding avenue.

Sabra*

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

I keep getting offered low paid regular teaching work, for about £20 to £25 ($40 - $50) per hour, for one hour only per week, and involving about at least 1.5 - 2 hours travelling time (door to door).

Since my main focus at the moment is performing I am loosing no sleep over turning these offers down, but I have to wonder, when these places find teachers - why do they do it? After you pay tax you'll get only £16 to £21 per hour ($32 - $42). Plus your whole evening is lost.

If the venue was right at the end of the street then maybe I could understand teaching for that rate. When I was in adult ed (low paid) I taught two beginners classes back to back, so for the same amount of preparation I got paid twice as much, which was OK then. Now I'm teaching full time that's way below what I would accept.

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

I keep getting offered low paid regular teaching work, for about £20 to £25 ($40 - $50) per hour, for one hour only per week, and involving about at least 1.5 - 2 hours travelling time (door to door).

Since my main focus at the moment is performing I am loosing no sleep over turning these offers down, but I have to wonder, when these places find teachers - why do they do it? After you pay tax you'll get only £16 to £21 per hour ($32 - $42). Plus your whole evening is lost.

Working for an LEA is usually £13 an hour!That's normal leisure class pay but classes are normally 2 hours. That's why teachers go private!

Originally Posted by mira

And some teachers aren't in it for the money. They simply want to keep dancing themselves, and a class is a way to make sure they get to do it regularly with a little pin money on the side. (Shoot, I know plenty of teachers who don't charge a dime!)

A few years back, I knew a dancer who charged $6 per student when the going rate was $20 per student . A few instructors in her town rightfully got worried, but thankfully, she resolved the issue when one prominent instructor gently reminded her of the local rate.

It's OK to teach just for fun and *not* to be an uber-capitalist....as long as you're not screwing the rates for dancers who do this for a living, or otherwise hurting the bottom line for uber-capitalists comme moi ..l;,

Lisa

Some teachers do this in order to promote their private classes and improve their opportunities for performances.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

A few years back, I knew a dancer who charged $6 per student when the going rate was $20 per student . A few instructors in her town rightfully got worried, but thankfully, she resolved the issue when one prominent instructor gently reminded her of the local rate.

It's OK to teach just for fun and *not* to be an uber-capitalist....as long as you're not screwing the rates for dancers who do this for a living, or otherwise hurting the bottom line for uber-capitalists comme moi ..l;,

Lisa

I recently got asked by a local community centre to teach classes around the corner from my own, where they will charge the students AU$3 per class. That's less than the price of a coffee ,m:: ! And to put it in perspective, I currently charge my students AU$16 per class. Amazingly, they found a teacher...goodness knows at what low rate! What can you do? I just hope she offers crappy teaching, their advertising isn't as broad-reaching as mine, and they go away..g.: !!! Surely a class at that price isn't sustainable.

You, know, the pound/dollar ratio being what it is at the moment, it's kind of hard for me to determine whether we're comparing apples to apples....

But I remember someone posting here on Bhuz a year or two ago that they were offered $10/hour to teach at the YMCA. And fitness instructors at gyms typically get about $30. $50/hour is a pretty middle-of-the-road flat rate around here (in small-town mid-america where a typical class costs about $10).

I think $40-50/hour to teach is very acceptable. In my state, teachers with master's degrees are teaching at colleges and universities for $35-40/hour.

Originally Posted by clueless23de

I think $40-50/hour to teach is very acceptable. In my state, teachers with master's degrees are teaching at colleges and universities for $35-40/hour.

Good point, but I think there are significant differences.

They don't get paid only for the hour of classtime, do they? I think they get paid for their office hours, time they spend creating lesson plans, etc. Whereas I might put in two hours of prep for an hour of classtime, plus time spent before & after class answering questions, but I'll only get paid for the hour I'm actually teaching.

Plus they are employees, so they don't have to pay the roughly 25% self-employment tax or fund their own health insurance, retirement, advertising and liability. Independent contractors as a rule automatically earn 25-40% more than their employee counterparts.

OTOH, I don't have a master's degree!!

But a university teacher handling 14 hours of actual classtime per week would be making roughly 4 times what I make in the course of a year, and would be keeping probably 6 or 8 times as much after taxes & benefits.

Sorry, didn't mean to beat the comparison to death, I was just sort of playing with it...

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

I keep getting offered low paid regular teaching work, for about £20 to £25 ($40 - $50) per hour, for one hour only per week, and involving about at least 1.5 - 2 hours travelling time (door to door).


but I have to wonder, when these places find teachers - why do they do it? After you pay tax you'll get only £16 to £21 per hour ($32 - $42). Plus your whole evening is lost.

You get what you pay for. I'm not gonna waste all my years of experience, training etc, on that kind of fee.

I thought $40/hour was a good rate... I'm in a teeny little town though, so maybe it's just a good rate here. What are teachers charging in larger cities?


*mini-hijack but related story*

I did turn down a teaching gig at a YMCA for $15/hour and I'm thinking of quitting at a studio here in town because they're only paying $10/hour for 1-5 students and $20 for above that. I agreed as a huge favor to the owners at first, but they don't look like they're changing anytime soon and I'd rather not feel like I'm being taken advantage of, especially when there are 2 other places happy to pay the $40-50 rates and I don't want to just teach so much now that performance opportunities are picking up. Would anyone else teach for that low? even as a favor?

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Working for an LEA is usually £13 an hour!That's normal leisure class pay but classes are normally 2 hours. That's why teachers go private!

Exactly. Plus all the red tape nonsense that goes hand in hand with working for Local Authorities...fill in this form, sign that form, you can't do this without such and such form, then there's this check and that check, and blah blah blah....and then they add insult to bollocks by offering £12 an hour. No thanks.

Caroline - the rates you're quoting are pretty much standard in my area too. I
had 'discussions' some time ago with a local dance organisation that provides dance tuition in schools about their rate of pay for freelancers (A couple of years ago it was £25 per hour, plus some travel expenses, it may be more now - I haven't done any work for them in a while). They claim that that is the limit that schools are prepared to pay for this kind of work (which I don't think is true...). They are the leading dance-in-education organisation locally, so that sort of sets the rate for local freelancers...I have approached potential clients, quoted my price for teaching (£50 per hour - it's worth a try!!!), only to be told 'but XXXX only charges £25 per hour'. ,r:;

However, without having the figures to hand, I'm pretty sure that when I work out the surplus I make from my regular weekly classes (after mileage costs, venue hire, etc), I probably make less than £25 per hour...

Originally Posted by kharis_UK

Exactly. Plus all the red tape nonsense that goes hand in hand with working for Local Authorities...fill in this form, sign that form, you can't do this without such and such form, then there's this check and that check, and blah blah blah....and then they add insult to bollocks by offering £12 an hour. No thanks.

added to which. ......It's..... where is your long term and short term plan, your individual lesson plan and the Ofsted inspector is on next week...

I'm a sub school teacher at present and have to stay at home today with a sore throat but I'm only missing one lesson and missing £35 for that hour!
When I agreed to introduce belly dance to the local community where I worked I was paid £26 for 2 hours for a college who often "forgot" to pay me anyway!

Hmm... I don't think any studios in my area would pay a teacher much more than that for a class.

But that's for a regular class, min 6 week term. And all you have to do is rock up, the studio space is paid for as is the advertising, insurance and music licenses and the admin is done by the hirer. Providing it was within a reasonable travel zone I don't think that's an unreasonable rate. Like restaurant vs private parties, a regular local teaching contract would be charged at a lower rate than a one off workshop.

If you were contracted to teach an 8 week beginners or intro course at a local studio how much is the going rate in your area then?

Exceptions I could think of would be if a co-op of dancers were hiring a teacher for a series of 6 or more classes with specific topics in mind... then that takes it to another level rather than just casual contracting to a studio for a term, and would be charged at a higher rate.

And of course, as it seems like the world over, local government wants you to do it for a pittance.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Good point, but I think there are significant differences.

They don't get paid only for the hour of classtime, do they? I think they get paid for their office hours, time they spend creating lesson plans, etc. Whereas I might put in two hours of prep for an hour of classtime, plus time spent before & after class answering questions, but I'll only get paid for the hour I'm actually teaching.

Plus they are employees, so they don't have to pay the roughly 25% self-employment tax or fund their own health insurance, retirement, advertising and liability. Independent contractors as a rule automatically earn 25-40% more than their employee counterparts.

OTOH, I don't have a master's degree!!

But a university teacher handling 14 hours of actual classtime per week would be making roughly 4 times what I make in the course of a year, and would be keeping probably 6 or 8 times as much after taxes & benefits.

Lauren... one question hubby is always asking is if I get paid for all the time I spend on prep at home? The answer is always no and it sucks eggs. I can spend easy 8 hours on the initial lesson plan outlines for a course then the additional tweaking and prep for each lesson. Each hour in the studio is worth about 2 at home.

Lauren... one question hubby is always asking is if I get paid for all the time I spend on prep at home? The answer is always no and it sucks eggs. I can spend easy 8 hours on the initial lesson plan outlines for a course then the additional tweaking and prep for each lesson. Each hour in the studio is worth about 2 at home.

Personally, I enjoy all the "at home" work and don't really worry about it. But for teachers who are making their primary income from this, standardizing class curriculum is a good way to cut down on the prep work and increase their ROI. If you know exactly what you're going to teach during an 8-week intro class--every time you teach it--you only have to plan once and you can use the prep work indefinitely.

You'll need to keep creating new stuff for the most advanced group, but in theory you should be able to recycle the beginner stuff over and over because you'll have new students.

Unfortunately, that doesn't take into account TBF (teacher boredom factor). There's only so many times I can listen to the same song before I need to change it. ,s::

Mira

dance schools here pay any dance teachers between 20 and 30€ an hour, that's on a self employed basis, meaning you loose about half of that to taxes and social security...

if i would run my school on a commercial basis, i think i could pay people 35-40E per hour tops, unless the class really sold out... maybe 50E per hour for more expensive classes (workshops etc, bigger groups)

presently i pay myself 35E per hour, and the rest of the teachers (beginning teachers) get paid in class hours/workshops (with me or guest instructors)/private classes. none of them want to register as self employed as it costs so much... they'd rater be paid in benefits mostly.

I enjoy most of the at-home prep work, too -- but if enjoying your work meant you shouldn't get paid for it, how would anyone earn a living doing what they love?

In my level 1-3 classes, I do get to recycle my lesson plans continuously. Apparently I have a really high Teacher Boredom threshold!!

But for my level 4 students, and my performing group, I have to come up with fresh lesson plans and choreographies all the time. And ever more sophisticated ones, as some of these ladies have now been dancing for 5 years or more!

I love that I have to keep pushing my own limits in order to find new things to teach them. And I consider some of that research/learning curve 'personal growth' rather than 'class prep' although it's both.

I still think a lot of the differences we're seeing are going to be regional fluctuations. In my area, an aerobics instructor gets about $20/hour as an employee, $30/hour as an independent contractor. So $50/hour seems reasonable for a freelance bellydance teacher (highly specialized training) if she carries her own insurance.

Still, if you do your own advertising/website/etc. and have a following, you're better off with a per-student arrangement, and it's a no-risk proposition for the venue as well.

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

Since my main focus at the moment is performing I am loosing no sleep over turning these offers down, but I have to wonder, when these places find teachers - why do they do it? After you pay tax you'll get only £16 to £21 per hour ($32 - $42). Plus your whole evening is lost.

I used to teach for a flat hourly rate. The place was 5-10 minutes from my house, they paid all insurance and music licensing fees, they provided the studio space, and they did all the marketing of the classes (my classes were always full). If I needed a handout copied for my students, they did it. So they absorbed all the expenses and did a lot of the administrative legwork.

When I was a new teacher, it would have been very daunting to go out and find a studio to rent, research/pay insurance, etc. This way, I was able to focus my full attention on the craft of teaching rather than on all the administrative stuff.

Have you ladies ever calculated how much you get paid for restraunt gigs or private parties per hour? I'm just curious if you consider how long it takes you to prepare your music, get ready (makeup, hair, shower, etc), prepare the performance, pack costumes, commute time, and then the actual dance time? I guess I would have guessed that that was around 40-50$/hour too. Just curious!

One other thought... I know a belly dance teacher who has her own dance studio. She teaches beginner classes for hourly pay through a local adult education program in addition to the classes she offers through her own studio. The benefit to her of doing this is that when the beginners outgrow the beginning class and ask, "What's next?" she can steer them to the classes offered through her private studio. So teaching for the lower hourly pay in her case is kind of an advertising investment, to create an ongoing pipeline of students for the intermediate classes.