Thread: Re-locating Ethics

Originally Posted by flimflamgirl

I love the idea of hosting a video party. If we do relocate, I'm totally going to do that.

- Leela

You know, that does sound like a fun thing, and potentially useful too. If you could get some of the other "working" dancers in the new town there, you'd probably learn a lot about the community, the tastes of the community, etc. by listening to their commentary during the video--both about the vids themselves and general chatter that the vids inspire.

Originally Posted by flimflamgirl

Shira - Thanks so much for commenting. Your comments reflect exactly my reasons for asking about this in the first place. I wouldn't want to seem like I'm swanning in like a big diva if we move to a new place. I just want to be part of a dance community wherever I am, and since I've spent most of my life in New York, I'm know next to nothing about other places.

Leela, the fact that you're even thinking about all this suggests to me that you'll be fine!

When a new person enters an established culture (moving to a new town, going to work at a new company, joining a new belly dance troupe), the new person often wants to win approval, but sometimes does stuff that has the opposite result. I experienced this a lot in the high tech industry when new hires would come on board. I also was on the receiving end of it a lot when I worked in a high-tech sales job, because I was the "intruder" trying to change something about the other company's culture. So to avoid alienating the very people you hope will be your new friends:

• When you initially arrive there, take at least a few weeks, maybe a few months, to get to know the dance scene before you start teaching, start performing, or start offering suggestions on how the local dancers might do something different. Spend the time gathering information about the local scene through attending events, sampling classes, going out for coffee with dancers, etc.
• If you're in the audience for a show, try to avoid saying anything negative about the performer on stage, even if it's something blatant like, "I wish her underwear wasn't sticking out from above the top of her belt." Even if the people around you are talking smack about it. You never know who is sitting near you - it could be her best dance buddies. And you don't want to become known as a snarky person who criticizes everyone.
• Tread carefully if you want to offer suggestions to people on how to do something, whether it's how to run a hafla, how to run a dancer showcase, etc. Avoid starting sentences with, "Back in New York, we used to..." because that can come across as sounding condescending even if you don't mean it that way. Instead, start sentences with, "What would you think of trying this?"
• If you go to an event, try to avoid being shy. Shyness is sometimes misinterpreted as coldness. As you encounter people you've met before, give them a cheerful, "Hi! How nice to see you again!" greeting. If you haven't met them before, it's enough to make eye contact and give them a bright smile as you squeeze past them. It's amazing how smiling at everyone will earn you a reputation for being "friendly" even if you don't say anything. Don't be afraid to join a table of strangers at a dance meal. Just ask, "Is it okay if I join you? I'm afraid I don't know anyone here."

Originally Posted by tattood1

i'm looking at the tri-state area. kingman to the river. THX, tina

Tina, my Mommy teaches in Kingman, she was at the college for a while, and I think she's at a holistic center, I know there isn't a whole lot there, but I would be happy to put you in contact with her, she'd love another dancer in the area, some of her dance buddies moved away, and she has backed off from teaching a bit, I guess she felt 35 years was enough, but she still has a dance troupe!

I was considering moving away during the holiday's, I contacted a few of the dancers I found online, one was great, "hey, let's meet for coffee I'll fill you in on the scene" the other one was, hey, you should only come to this studio and this teacher, very terretorial, yuck, but I'm not moving.....if I were, I would hang out with the cool girl who invited me to coffee!!..l;,

Having moved a ton in the past few years (only as a student), I'd say the best ways of getting involved initially is posting on tribe or Bhuz about wanting to know about the area, whom to take from, etc.

I find going to classes and workshops are a good way to get a feel and get to know people.

I'm a chronic relocater. I've lived in four cities in the past 8 years and just moved to my 5th. Actually, I haven't been bhuzzing much the past two weeks b/c I've been relocating to the west coast from New England... so this post seems pretty timely for me.

Whenever I relocate I try to get a feel for my new community before I hang out a shingle. All of what Laura described is good MO for this and I have used these strategies myself many times. It helps if you have some kind of relationship with an established dancer in the community... even if that relationship is a virtual one.

When I first moved from NYC to Hartford I did some web browsing and found Roxann. Her bio said she had lived and danced in Corvallis, Oregon (close to where I grew up) so I emailed her. Low and behold she actually remembered me and invited me to some local haflas. I was then able to pick her brain about the community, where to teach, local rates, etc etc. She also was great about introducing me to everyone. It made the whole relocation sooo much easier -- the last thing I wanted was belly drama!!

Once I finish getting unpacked and settled in here I plan using a similar strategy for the Bay Area. Fortunately Rak West is coming up, so it will be a great time to meet people and network.

ATTENTION BAY AREA DANCERS! If you're going to Rakkasah and see me wandering around, stop and introduce yourself! I'll probably be wearing my Paul Frank belly dancing monkey t-shirt (my Rakkasah uniform!).

Originally Posted by rose_sahar

Yasmin and Samira, don't think I haven't thought about it!! In fact, I am thinking about it right now!

Whoo hoo!! Come to Vegas!! Come to Vegas!!..l;,

Originally Posted by yasmindiab

*ahem*

MOVE TO VEGAS!!!

Oh, Rose Sahar is just kidding. She's staying here with us for ever and ever...g.: ..g.: ..g.:

i have a question

"wait a few weeks, a few months, to a year before you start your own classes", is what i read in some of these responses. what if it is (a part of) your income?
why would you wait? you're not waiting to start up your other job/s right.

i'm not planning on moving anywhere soon, and i see the advantages of "waiting" till you know what's what, but i'm not sure this is always an option, right. if i'm a therapist and i move to a new town, whether its cause my husband is moving there for his job or not, i'm going to try to start working as a therapist again right away, right. i'm not going to wait till i know the other therapists in town.

just a thought. the waiting suggestion seems to come from us NOT seeing this as a real job, but as a "hobby"?

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i have a question

"wait a few weeks, a few months, to a year before you start your own classes", is what i read in some of these responses. what if it is (a part of) your income?
why would you wait? you're not waiting to start up your other job/s right.

i'm not planning on moving anywhere soon, and i see the advantages of "waiting" till you know what's what, but i'm not sure this is always an option, right. if i'm a therapist and i move to a new town, whether its cause my husband is moving there for his job or not, i'm going to try to start working as a therapist again right away, right. i'm not going to wait till i know the other therapists in town.

just a thought. the waiting suggestion seems to come from us NOT seeing this as a real job, but as a "hobby"?

I think this depends on what you are planning on doing. Moving to a new town and looking for work is different than moving to a new town and taking over the community. If you moved to town and tried to take over the social network of therapists...you might offend some people in the process. Especially if there is already a social network of therapists.

Additionally, if you are a therapist...you are an employee. If you are a bellydancer...you are an independant contractor. It's not an exact comparison. If you were a realtor and moved into a new city, you might get a job with an office, but you would definitely be gentle in your social networking and take time to understand the market. Yes?

I think it depends on the size of the town and what / who is already there. If you are moving to a large metro area, vhances are you will not have to wait, espeically if you have done soem networking ahead of time. If you are moving to a smaller area where there are established teachers, it may be a little more difficult due to density / scarcity and politics in the area.

I know of one dancer here in SoCal who had been off traveling the world for several years, making a reputation for herself. When she came back, she was welcomed with open arms by other teachers in teh area. But slowly but surely there was an underlying message coming fromt hese same teachers saying, don't you want to tour again? maybe doing movies would be a better career move. Eventually, one of the fessed up to being concerned that she was going ot steal their advanced students. And did she think she could go away again? Please?

*sighs*

Personally, I think that if you can pair up with an established teacher, and you bring something unique to the table, you are going to be less of a threat to those already there. The prodominate style is Egyptian and you cna teach Turkish Rom! Cool! There is a lot of Tribal Fusion and you have been studying ATS for 5 years! Go for it! American Cab in a Turkish workld? YAHOO!!! But, is you don't, and if this means waiting it out while you create relationships, then that may be the smartest road to walk.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

Additionally, if you are a therapist...you are an employee.

Not necessarily. There are a lot of therapsits who are not employees. They have their own office and shingle. That having been said, I agree that prior to hainging up your sign you'd do some networking and figure out the lay of the land, so to speak.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Not necessarily. There are a lot of therapsits who are not employees. They have their own office and shingle. That having been said, I agree that prior to hainging up your sign you'd do some networking and figure out the lay of the land, so to speak.

{{{HUGS}}}

Fair enough. And as you already mentioned, the point is still valid. As an independant "anything" you would definitely take some time to understand the market.

i specifially used the example of a therapist, as i see them as self employed mainly. any other compairison would do. independent teachers of all kinds, lawyers, doctors. someone who is self employed

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

I think this depends on what you are planning on doing. Moving to a new town and looking for work is different than moving to a new town and taking over the community. If you moved to town and tried to take over the social network of therapists...you might offend some people in the process. Especially if there is already a social network of therapists.

Additionally, if you are a therapist...you are an employee. If you are a bellydancer...you are an independant contractor. It's not an exact comparison. If you were a realtor and moved into a new city, you might get a job with an office, but you would definitely be gentle in your social networking and take time to understand the market. Yes?

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

why would you wait? you're not waiting to start up your other job/s right.

i'm not planning on moving anywhere soon, and i see the advantages of "waiting" till you know what's what, but i'm not sure this is always an option, right. if i'm a therapist and i move to a new town, whether its cause my husband is moving there for his job or not, i'm going to try to start working as a therapist again right away, right. i'm not going to wait till i know the other therapists in town.

Depends on to what extent your ability to make money will be affected by the other professionals in your area.

Do you want them to refer gigs to you that they are unable to do? Do you want them to tell you what the going rates are at the local restaurants? Do you want them to consider you as a possible substitute for their restaurant gigs when they need a sub? Do you want them to attend events that you sponsor and recommend those events to their students? Do you want them to invite your students to dance in their haflas?

If you don't feel that the things I identified in the above paragraph are important to you, then maybe you don't need to network before you marketing yourself. However, if you want to participate in the above opportunities to take advantage of opportunities created by other people, then there is value to taking some lead time to network before you start aggressively marketing yourself.

i'd probably try to do that networking before i move, and yes, i'm coming from a background where professional dancers make most of their income from teaching not restaurants...

but again, how would this be in other professions, when you relocate as an independent contractor? do they wait?

edited to add: i'm not saying i dont realise one needs to network, build community, work together with other dancers, established relationships and turfs need to be respectred up to a point, of course... i'm just saying, what if this is your livelihood, not your hobby... your options might be different, so i DO understand dancers that seem to "barge in" somewhere new. not that i'd do it i that way i guess.

Well, since the therapy model has already been used, I am going to address what I am doing for my move to London. . .

I have been in contact with tow private practices in London which have subspecialities in Anger Management. They have both expressed interest in my coming on board as a Coach and working with those clients who could benefit from my background and training. I am also talking to members of a few groups which specilize in both Coachign adn Anger Management to establish myself amoung them and become listed int heir literature, on their websites, etc.

If things work out, I should be able to hit the ground running when I get there. But for the first year, under the umbrella of another therapist / Coach. This also has the side benefit that I don't have to spend a lot of time and energy doing marketing for myself.

Now the other thing is that I am approaching certian firms, etc., which have US offices about offering my services as well. Starting fromt he US side.

So the question of do you have to wait is really based on how much ground work you have laid before your initial move. If you have done the work, you shouldn't have alot of problems making a graceful transition. if, on the other hand, you ahven't, depending on the market and the situation you walk into, it could be much harder.

{{{HUGS}}}

Speaking from the other side of the coin (so to speak), being approached in advance by the new person coming to town gave both of us advanced communication opportunities to begin knowing each other. For me, I was delighted to have another dancer move to town who was interested in playing nice together. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the easiest transition for her, but we've been able to make quite a good go of it. Because of my day job and trying to keep the husband happy, I only have the opportunity currently to do teaching duty twice a week (used to be once a week). When Sedonia moved to town *we* were able to begin expanding the number of dance classes available to students. Then Rose moved to town and we finally started making progress on a troupe (and had an extra dancer for subbing for classes). Most recently we've had another dancer join us (husband got a job with the university), so not only has our troupe fleshed out, but we've even expanded our class offerings again a little, have more of us to sub for each other when needed, and I'm about as happy as a pig in a puddle. Yes, we're all different personalities and difference dance styles, but we strive to be very open with each other and I'm having an absolute blast with the dance again.