Thread: WWBD - Regular No-Shows Who Keep Signing Up

I have a teaching quandary that I was hoping some Bhuzzers might have advice on. I apologize for the length, but I want to really clarify the specifics of my situation.

I have two students who have been taking with me since my very first session of teaching back in November of 2005. When the Park & Rec I was teaching through changed the night of the class on me, they became my first Semi-Private students, continuing their lessons in what at the time was a very unappealing basement practice space. They went to haflas and other bellydance events and seemed to really look forward to class every week.

Fast forward to the last 8 or 9 months, where I am teaching full time and have a thriving student base. One or both of them calls and cancels their lesson at *least* 3 times out of every 6 week session. They pay in advance, and since 99% of the time they give less than 24 hours notice (usually an hour at most), they have to pay for the lesson even though they're not there. One of them also enrolls in one of my Park & Rec group classes as well (so theoretically, 2 classes per week), but has entire 6 week sessions where she never makes a single class.

Financially, it is no problem for me to keep them as students. If anything, I make *more* money because I get 6 hours of pay for teaching 2 or 3 hours. But psychologically, it wears on me. They have ceased to make any progress because they come so infrequently and never practice. I know that they both have had job and family problems that have made attending class more difficult, but every time I have tried to approach them about taking a break they shoot me down. "Oh, we're hiring a new person soon and things will get better." or "I'm getting a new daycare provider soon." They absolutely refuse to consider it, so I keep taking their money, and they keep not showing up...lather, rinse, repeat. At the same time, when they do show up, they talk about being so excited to be "starting fresh", or how they're going to really buckle down and and be able to perform the choreo that we've been working on (for the last 14 months..c:: ). It's getting so it's impossible to show much enthusiasm when they come to class, and I'm an instructor who believes that you have to be excited for your students to be excited.

Continued...

For a long time, I looked at it as almost a gift - an hour to do whatever I wanted and still get paid as if I were teaching. But then I started my student troupe, and was just blown away by the dedication and energy of these ladies, who have gone so far as to rehearse without me rather than skip rehearsals on the occasional Sunday when I'm unavailable. Also, I just had a life-altering experience at some Aziza workshops that really hit home how important it is for me to be passionate about teaching and dancing. And in the shadow of all of this, I find myself hoping they'll cancel each week because of my frustration and disappointment. ,f::

Let me be clear - I have no problem with them putting BD on the back burner at all. I've had several promising students who have had to drop dance because of life circumstances, and I let them know that I will miss them but the door is always open. It's the lack of any kind of closure or progress that's messing me up.

I'm going to stop rambling and see what you all have to say about the sitch.

hoping they'll cancel each week because of my frustration and disappointment

There is your answer...

Not trying to be flip...but tell me the downside of just not doing this to yourself any more? Allowing them to pay you and then hoping they dont show, thats not good for your soul ... as well as the old definition of insanity and all that...maybe they need to be shoved into the next phase of their life as well...just cause you pay an instructor doesnt mean your a dancer any more than sleeping in a garage makes you a Buick.

Originally Posted by anala

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Not trying to be flip...but tell me the downside of just not doing this to yourself any more?

I think a large part of it that they were loyal to me back when I first started teaching. They were literally the first ones to tell me that my class made a real difference in their lives, and even though I know it's not the case anymore, I feel like giving them the boot is somehow abandoning them.

maybe they need to be shoved into the next phase of their life as well

This is what I keep thinking - I just wish they would realize it for themselves without me forcing the issue. Non-confrontational? Who, me? ..l;,

Hows this one...I dont have time for privates anymore, ladies...I really hope you can come to my regular classes, I will be happy to transfer your unused fees to that class....

works?

My mentor has one sweet lady who signs up for EVERY 6-week beginner class, comes to one or two classes and then we don't see her again until the next session. I have NEVER understood this. I asked her about it and she just basically said she "got busy."

Maybe they figure if they pay ahead of time it will motivate them to come to the class? Only that doesn't quite work? Strange.

Originally Posted by anala

Hows this one...I dont have time for privates anymore, ladies...I really hope you can come to my regular classes, I will be happy to transfer your unused fees to that class....

works?

In my particular case, I don't think that would work because I teach full time and about half of that is private lessons. Because they have "come up with me", so to speak, they know that I teach a lot of private lessons and that their primo spot (one of only two spots I have open on a weeknight evening) is very much in demand. I have a waiting list of 4 people, all of whom would take their spot in a minute if it became available, which is why I am so strict about charging them for absences. When they were my only private students and I was teaching in my icky practice area, I was lazze-faire about that; but now that I have a beautiful home studio and there's a greater demand for lessons I have to give them the tough love on that.

I can't transfer their money to my group classes at all. Payment for privates comes directly to me, payments for group classes goes through the Park & Rec department, so it's two totally different entities.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm shooting your suggestions down, anala. I really appreciate your responses! I guess I'm trying to figure out if I'm being too sensitive, or if my resentment is justified. ,f::

Sometimes I think part of it is that I just can't believe that people would pay all that money knowing that most of it is going to go to waste. The one who is signed up for one of my group classes actually signed up for a *2nd* group class one session! She had paid to take class 3 times a week for 6 weeks, and out of the 18 classes she made - drum roll, please - 5. ..c::

No, no...no worries..your situation becomes clear. If this were a totally commercial venture for you, you would not be this concerned. You are an artist and your teaching is as much a part of your art form as your dancing. When there is a no show..it must feel a bit like a personal affront. We want to take this little bit of time that we are alotted on the planet to make the most of ourselfs and the people we touch. If they care about you as much as you care about them, they need to understand what this does to you. Perhaps they feel that if they have paid for your time it is their perogative to to show or not. They must be made to understand that there is more to it for you, and if they care...they will change. Sounds like a heart to heart's in your future...I have one in mine as well...go to mandatory class thread and tell me what you think.

I have a waiting list of 4 people, all of whom would take their spot in a minute if it became available, which is why I am so strict about charging them for absences.

I think this is the key here. Even though they're paying for the lessons, their absences are getting in the way of your other students' progress. I think you're right that this is a situation where tough love is necessary.

I would say something along the lines of "I know that you enjoy taking private lessons, but I really need to use this time slot for people who can make lessons more regularly." I know it doesn't sound like fun, though.

Have you considered establishing a bi-weekly schedule with them in a different time slot? That might take some of the pressure off of them if they can't make classes as regularly.

Laura 2,
I just wanted to say that I totally empathize with you here, although I don't have a good suggestion about what to do in the situation. I am in a very similar situation with certain of my students. I have grappled with the same feelings...almost wishing that they don't show up, because it's so exhausting to get them caught up to where they would have been if they hadn't missed so many classes, then feeling guilty and responsible for their poor attendance/lack of commitment. I have approached students and gotten similar responses to the ones that you have: "I really love this dance; it means so much to me; I'm going to buckle down and work harder."

I have started to feel like there's nothing to be done. If the students want to continue to throw their money away, that is their choice. We have to continue to do what we do: offer quality instruction, be enthusiastic about dance, provide "tough love" when appropriate. But I think we as teachers can not continue to bear the burden of responsibility for students who really just can't seem to decide whether to "fish or cut bait".

Nisaa

Originally Posted by anala

If they care about you as much as you care about them, they need to understand what this does to you. Perhaps they feel that if they have paid for your time it is their perogative to to show or not. They must be made to understand that there is more to it for you, and if they care...they will change.

I think this gets to the heart of the issue...the vast majority of students do not and will never care about the dance as much as the teacher does. I think where a lot of us go wrong is that we want to influence them to care, and we are just dumbfounded that some students who have been with us for years still just don't care all that much.

I think we (teachers) have to resign ourselves to the fact that while this is a huge, maybe even a central, part of OUR lives, for most students this is a minor side activity that they are very willing to sacrifice.

This is a VERY hard pill to swallow, and believe me, I choke on it every day.

Hi Laura2,
It seems like over the course of time they have developed a relationship with you in which they are keeping you on retainer, to use your services when they wish. This changes the teacher-student dynamic, I imagine, and sounds like it does not correspond with your teaching vision, or mission. Thus, I think the only possibility is to develop some sort of policy in which a certain number of cancellations - not tied to something specific, like a serious illness -puts the private student's time slot in a position to be forfeited, at your discretion. Simply said, you could say it goes against your teaching ethics to accept pay for services non-rendered on a continued basis.
Good luck,
Christine

ooooooo...you are good!!! Wanna draft my contracts?

Thank you all so much for you responses. I can't tell you how comforting it is! It's good to know I'm not crazy (well, not entirely.....l;, )

Originally Posted by CFerhat

Hi Laura2,
It seems like over the course of time they have developed a relationship with you in which they are keeping you on retainer, to use your services when they wish. This changes the teacher-student dynamic, I imagine, and sounds like it does not correspond with your teaching vision, or mission.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head here. Over the past 2 1/2 years, they have changed and so have I. They used to be all over anything and everything BD, and I used to be a part time dancer teaching a couple of classes per week. Now, they have dancing way down on their list of priorities (although they will not admit to that), and my full time career is teaching and performing. It's like we're still trying to adhere to the old roles, even though everything else has changed!

When I look at it that way, it makes so much sense to me why I'm upset. This is exactly what happened with my old career when I started getting more and more into dance. I didn't care about the work I was doing there any more, but my bosses and I were still slogging along as if I were the same bright-eyed go getter they hired 3 years before. It was a disaster, and when I quit, I told them plainly that I just wasn't the person they had originally given the job to any more.

I know I'm going to have to have that heart to heart that anala suggested. I just know it's going to hurt them because I believe they are really in denial about how bad the situation is.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

Thus, I think the only possibility is to develop some sort of policy in which a certain number of cancellations - not tied to something specific, like a serious illness -puts the private student's time slot in a position to be forfeited, at your discretion.

I actually have that now, but they've been with me since long before I had any written policies. I've shamefully "grandfathered" them in when it comes to my new and strict policies on lateness or attendance.

Simply said, you could say it goes against your teaching ethics to accept pay for services non-rendered on a continued basis.

I. Love. This. I think when I finally buck myself up for the confrontation, this is exactly the approach I will use. Thank you so much!

I have been known to sign up for an 8-week yoga class and pay in advance, then miss half the classes.

I sign up fully intending to go. I know I'll benefit from going. And yet...

Sometimes I get stressed. (Last year was a big one, between my stepfather's death in April, a cold that lingered the entire month of February, and a technology curse that started in March and lingered into January.) If I have too much stress going on, one "treatment" that helps me deal with the stress is reducing scheduled commitments. In other words, skipping classes I have already paid for. So that's one reason I'll skip classes in a current session, then not sign up for the next session. Or, maybe I'll sign up for the next session HOPING the stress will have eased back enough by then to let me enjoy it, but then the next session starts and I'm still stressed, so again I start skipping.

Another issue for me is that I'm a beginner at yoga, so each class leaves me with lots of sore muscles. Usually, that particular issue doesn't stop me from going, because I know the soreness is a sign that I'm building strength and flexibility. However, yesterday I was out de-icing our sidewalks and driveway, and by the time last night rolled around my sore muscles from the de-icing project were shouting, "Please, don't abuse us further in a yoga class!" A further deterrent was snow that started about 3 pm and kept going steadily into the night - I was out with my car on a different errand about an hour before yoga class, and it was really slippery. I didn't want to risk driving around in conditions that would be even worse by the time yoga rolled around.

So those are my excuses for why I might make it to only half the classes I signed up for.

I'd be unhappy if my yoga teacher told me I had to quit taking her class due to my absenteeism, just so someone else could have my spot. I value the class, and I'm glad I'm taking it, even if I do miss a bunch. I feel that so long as I paid the money, she's not being harmed by my absenteeism. Her class is not the sort with a definite beginning, middle, and end - in other words, if I miss a couple of classes, I won't be holding back the rest of the group by my having missed material/information.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I have been known to sign up for an 8-week yoga class and pay in advance, then miss half the classes.

Thanks for explaining this -- it puts some things in perspective for me. :)

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I'd be unhappy if my yoga teacher told me I had to quit taking her class due to my absenteeism, just so someone else could have my spot. I value the class, and I'm glad I'm taking it, even if I do miss a bunch. I feel that so long as I paid the money, she's not being harmed by my absenteeism. Her class is not the sort with a definite beginning, middle, and end - in other words, if I miss a couple of classes, I won't be holding back the rest of the group by my having missed material/information.

If they were just in my group classes, I'd be a lot less upset about it. With the group classes, if some people don't come, I'm still able hold class. The problem is with privates, when they don't show, I've planned my very busy schedule around something that more than half the time doesn't actually happen. I can't tell you the number of times I've turned down dinner plans with friends, family outings and even a paying gig one time because that spot on my calender belongs to those two individuals. When they call 15 minutes prior to class and say they can't make it, I can't really get that time back even though I am being paid.

It sounds to me that you should cancel the slot with them and NOT schedule any thing else in there. Family time, outings and dinner are important - when you are on your deathbed, you won't be saying "I wish I'd taught those extra private lessons on the weekend!"

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

It sounds to me that you should cancel the slot with them and NOT schedule any thing else in there. Family time, outings and dinner are important - when you are on your deathbed, you won't be saying "I wish I'd taught those extra private lessons on the weekend!"

That's actually why I don't teach any classes Friday afternoon through Sunday afternoon; that's time set aside for gigs, workshops, haflas, and yes - free time with family and friends as well. I have a friend who teaches 7 days a week and I have no idea how she stays sane!

Originally Posted by laura 2

If they were just in my group classes, I'd be a lot less upset about it. With the group classes, if some people don't come, I'm still able hold class. The problem is with privates, when they don't show, I've planned my very busy schedule around something that more than half the time doesn't actually happen. I can't tell you the number of times I've turned down dinner plans with friends, family outings and even a paying gig one time because that spot on my calender belongs to those two individuals. When they call 15 minutes prior to class and say they can't make it, I can't really get that time back even though I am being paid.

Wow, Canceling 15 minutes ahead of time on a regular basis is really disrespectful. I mean stuff happens and sometimes last minute cancellations can't be helped but it should really be a rare event not a regular occurrence.

I think you need to tell the students what you just said here, emphasizing that it is not just the money but consideration for your time is important as well.

Instead of "breaking up" with these students, can you perhaps work with them to move their reserved slot to another day/time that won't annoy you so much if they cancel?

Originally Posted by mariyah13

Wow, Canceling 15 minutes ahead of time on a regular basis is really disrespectful. I mean stuff happens and sometimes last minute cancellations can't be helped but it should really be a rare event not a regular occurrence.

Well, most of the time they don't cut it quite that close. Their class is at 7:30pm, and usually they call around 6pm-ish to say they aren't making it (my hubby has to answer the phone because I'm teaching another private from 6pm to 7pm). Very occasionally they will call in the early afternoon (2pm -3pm), and if I'm really really lucky they'll call the night before.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Instead of "breaking up" with these students, can you perhaps work with them to move their reserved slot to another day/time that won't annoy you so much if they cancel?

The only time time slots like that would be during the day, where I have the most flexibility. Unfortunately, they both work during the day so they need an evening slot.

Originally Posted by anala

Hows this one...I dont have time for privates anymore, ladies...I really hope you can come to my regular classes, I will be happy to transfer your unused fees to that class....

works?

Perfect solution

Okay, I'm going to sound like a really nasty person here. (And I'm somebody who has had to miss four classes out of an eight week session myself -- but that's for a group class, not private instruction.)

In this century in America, there is nothing more valuable than time.

More family members are working more hours and taking fewer vacations these days. Even when people take time off they often end up working -- answering work email, for example. And those of us who pursue any kind of art in addition to the less-fulfilling "day job" know that any extra second we get to spend in the activities we love or with the people we love is like GOLD.

So while your invisible students are making you money, they are squandering your time! And clearly your time is very precious to not only you, but other students who are more dedicated. You clearly feel a little guilty about the idea of telling them to hit the road (you are a nice person!) but think of the other students who want that time, who deserve that precious time of yours more than they do, if you feel bad doing it for yourself.

Right now I am in my teacher's "advanced class". I have been dancing with her for five years. I know she has a bunch of students who are more dedicated than I am. At some point she's going to create an "Advanced II" for them. I won't be invited to it. I'll feel sorry for myself, but then I don't take two classes a week and practice daily at home. I'll eventually understand that they have a little better claim on her time than I do. I bet your occasional students will too.

Good luck!

Maybe the way to approach it would be to help them understand that you schedule and prepare for these private lessons and that when they don't show up--even if they have already paid--you've spent time and energy that could have been used for something else. Let them know that you have a waiting list of students asking for privates and that they must give you at least 48 hours notice. If they do not do that, you will need to drop them from your schedule.

I believe that these ladies are having affairs with other men and using you as a cover, why else would they pay all that money and not attend?

I would contact their spouses immediately and report their non-attendance, because if they should come to any harm you will be interrogated very intensively by the police and called upon to explain direct debits or cheques paid into your account by them.............Or have I been watching too many Forensic Files and Cold Case Files?

Originally Posted by KALIMA

I believe that these ladies are having affairs with other men and using you as a cover, why else would they pay all that money and not attend?

..l;, ..l;, ..l;, I never thought of that, how funny!

I guess it would be possible, except that only one of them is married. The other is not in any type of relationship at all, because as she will be the first person to tell you, she doesn't have any free time to date.

I can't believe I'm updating this thread after all this time!

After my original post, I did have a heart to heart with them, and they promised to be better about not canceling so much. It worked for a few months, but over the summer we were back to square one. They started canceling one or two days in advance instead of the same day, though, which means that I kept shifting their fees to a future week. It got so instead of getting their session payment every 6 weeks, I was getting it every 8 or sometimes 10 weeks.

The last draw was last month - they were supposed to start a new session 5 weeks ago, and have canceled the day before every single week. So a fairly substantial check I was expecting to get in early October has basically never come in, which is causing a slight cash flow issue. I called each of them and left a message that I was no longer offering the class time to them, because both financially and scheduling-wise, it's better for my business to have that slot consistently as opposed to intermittently filled. I left messages with both of them early in the week, and they never called me back - leading me to worry that they somehow had not gotten the messages and were going to show up for class..c::. So I left one more message for each of them Thursday morning (their class was on Thurs. nights), which were also never returned. I just figured they were totally pissed at me and no longer speaking to me, which at this point was fine with me.

I got a message from one of them a couple of hours ago (I was at a school function and had turned off my phone). She apologized for not returning my calls, but said they had both gotten so busy it took this long to call me back. They want to meet with me for a drink or coffee and "have a chat". .w.: My thought is that they want to try to talk me into taking them back as students, which I have about as much interest in as having rectal surgery via rusty fork. ..l;, I guess I could just never call them back, but as they live in the same town as me, I do occasionally run into them at the post office or grocery store, so that could be embarrassing. I think I'm just going to be busy or otherwise booked during whatever meeting time they suggest, and hope they just fade away.