Thread: is this a new trend to not pay your workshop instructors?

Ok, situation:
Artist is contracted to do workshop/show. (signed and negotiated contract with promoter)
Artist does job, has good attendance in workshop and show, makes money for everyone.
Promoter is also invloved in show, has guests in,whatever and "Gets too busy and stressed out" to meet with artist prior to them having to catch a plane and go home so artist doesnt get paid.
Now, artist is in situation of haggle-ing with promoter for payment.
Whats up with this? It has happened twice in 2 months!
When I promote, my primary priority has been to pay the guest instructor promptly and BEFORE they left even if I had to cover it myself.
Anyone else have things like this come up?
I think it is very unprofessional and hopefully will not become a norm.

In my book that is just plain wrong. Shame on anyone for not paying a person promptly for the work they've performed. I wonder if it's time to change the wording on these contracts to state that non-payment of the agreed upon fees prior to the artist departing will incur a late payment fee of __%.

Odd...
I know that sometimes in the past we've brought in instructors - and payment isn't made until a week or two later but that's only when we've had a % split contract. You don't always know what the final numbers are on the actual workshop weekend (outstanding costs). BUT the instructor is always made aware of this ahead of time and gives us the details of where to mail a check or make deposit, and that I'll have it done by a certain date.

If we're paying a flat instructor's fee then a cheque is cut and ready to go the day of the workshop.

Perhaps your contracts need to add a time frame to the payment details of your contracts?

Spounds like it's time to work up your own contract...or a rider on the promoters contract specifying the terms you deem important.

I often don't get paid immediately when I teach workshops in France. But that's due to the ridiculous bureaucracy people have to put up with there.
You can't just be a dance school, you need to form an association.
And this association needs an official bill from my side so that they can make a payment into my bank account.

Normally though, people pay me cash after my workshops (last weekend she even paid me on Saturday already).

If the instructor doesn't get paid immediately, this should be agreed in advance.
I normally tell them ahead that I'd like cash - so they can tell me if that's not going to work in advance.

A promoter who is "too busy" to pay has an organizational problem. Either you make time or you delegate.

MEISSOUN

I would insist on a 50% non-refundable deposit within one week after the contract is signed, but preferably with it. And if it's a check, I would cash it immediately!

That's odd, I've always been paid directly after I teach, maybe put in your contract that instructor must be paid before leaving, I have that in mine. Especially if you aren't doing a split and it's a set fee, they should already know what they are paying you ahead of time.

Two Old Bags have always had it in their contracts with Workshop Instructors, that we will pay by check at the end of your workshop or at the end of the show, if it is a combination workshop and show. We generally only pay a set fee, so there is nothing to figure out.

Originally Posted by patrisha

Now, artist is in situation of haggle-ing with promoter for payment.
Whats up with this? It has happened twice in 2 months!
I think it is very unprofessional and hopefully will not become a norm.

How embarrassing!!!

The artist should *never*have to remind the sponsor/promotor of his/her payment.I too think this is a very unprofessional behavior.

Emma

Great suggestions... keep them coming.
In both cases, it was a flat pre-agreed upon fee, no surprises. It is written in our contract that the artist is to be paid at the conclusion of the event. I never thought that someone might take it to mean weeks after the event! I like too the idea of a late fee if terms are not met. Wonder if this could actually be realized?
On a worse note, I do know of a very famous instructor/dancer that was never paid by the promoter and she was the biggest draw of the event. That promoter is still doing events and booking artists and has yet to pay her for her workshop. I certainly would not feel right doing another event until the previous one had been finalized.

Get a coupla big fellas..g.:

I jest but if you don't get satisfaction, say you'll spread the word.

i took a financial hit at a recent workshop i promoted to make sure both the venue an the artist got paid before they left! in full! period!

there's no excuse, no matter 'how stressed or busy', it is the promoter's responsibility to pay the artist in a timely fashion, as for the promoter who's still promoting after not paying an artist? why hasn't anyone spoke up and blackballed her? that's utterly and completely unethical!

Thank you Ruta, I agree totally with you and I too have taken a hit before to cover expenses. Its all part of the deal and has fortunatly been just a few times over many years.
I have had a few calls from people asking "Was it this person or that person you are talking about?'
This leads me to think that I (we ) are not the only artists that have had such a problem as it seems many are recognizing the senario.

well, i promoted 2 hi level workshops with master teachers which were highly successful, with varied stages of attendance, along with a couple public events

it never occurred to me to short or stiff either of the hi profile artists, or my name would be mud, and rightfully so!.....i was nervous a hell, being so new at it, so i'm AGHAST that this person u speak of has the nards to continue to promote and the biggie she stiffed hasn't made her disappear......

Ok, now, no word from sponsor who hasnt paid except a "check is in the mail" response but as of now, no check and in my mind, plently of time to have made the mail and travel to SD
What are opinions of going public or at least discussing on Bhuz who it is?
I would think that anything truthful and pertaining only to a personal circumstance and not hear say could not be considered slanderous.
Any thoughts or opinions?
I am still holding out hope that the check really IS in the mail and it will all resolve and end well but how long to wait for contact?

Originally Posted by patrisha

Ok, now, no word from sponsor who hasnt paid except a "check is in the mail" response but as of now, no check and in my mind, plently of time to have made the mail and travel to SD
What are opinions of going public or at least discussing on Bhuz who it is?
I would think that anything truthful and pertaining only to a personal circumstance and not hear say could not be considered slanderous.
Any thoughts or opinions?
I am still holding out hope that the check really IS in the mail and it will all resolve and end well but how long to wait for contact?

How long has it been, Patrisha? Even though the payment should have been THAT DAY, I think that as far as going public, at about the four week point, if you've still gotten nothing but "check's in the mail" responses with no other communication or explanation, the non-payer would have no room to complain if you were to "out" her. I think I'm being highly generous here, but just to play it on the safe side that you realllllly gave it plenty of time. For something that was contracted to be paid the same day, I would consider 4 weeks to constitute "non-payment", no matter what lipservice that individual might be paying (no pun intended...lol) to the intent to honor the contract.

That sounds really frustrating and annoying. I, for one, would like to know who it is so as to avoid in the future. Just think of it as helping others avoid the same crummy situation!

Oh - and I find the "too busy to pay" excuse to be totally unacceptable. What if I said I was too busy to pay my mortgage? Or too busy to pay my phone bill? That would not fly, would it? I am an extremely busy person but if I have to stay up until 1 am to pay my bills on time, that's what I do. (And that is often what I have to do! LOL)

Its going on two weeks now. I like the one month idea, at least I will feel like I have been patient and tried to work with them but I sincerely hope that there is SOME sort of contact prior to that even if its to say, hey, can I have more time or may I make a couple of payments, something....
I dont know the promoter personally but I really dont think they are bad people or anything, its business, that is what is is about now.

Originally Posted by gypsydanse

I would insist on a 50% non-refundable deposit

that's a really good idea. a deposit to book the gig in your very busy schedule.

i think 30 days is very generous. any more would require a strongly worded letter indicating future communications will be coming from your attorney.
that might light a fire under their behinds.

You can also consider turning her into a collection agency just like any other business would for non payment. If you don't pay your phone bill it goes to collection, whiy should this be any different??n I think that would send a strong message to her and other promoters who think they can get away with it.

Send a certified return receipt letter. It should state that if the check is not received by XX date, that the promoter's information will be posted on Bhuz and Tribe.

You may surprised how fast the check comes after that! I don't think the promoter would want this to happen.

Originally Posted by gypsydanse

Send a certified letter return receipt letter. It should state that if the check is not received by XX date, that the promoter's information will be posted on Bhuz and Tribe.

You may surprised how fast the check comes after that! I don't think the promoter would want this to happen.

I agree with the 30 days, certified letter, and the clause for a late fee. I think you should definitely give them a head's up that you are going to go public. And then post it in the Boycott Tribe.

I definitely think this situation is the exception to the rule. Strange you would have it happen twice in such close proximity. But still, I don't think most promoters would leave an artist hanging like that.

Originally Posted by gypsydanse

Send a certified return receipt letter. It should state that if the check is not received by XX date, that the promoter's information will be posted on Bhuz and Tribe.

You may surprised how fast the check comes after that! I don't think the promoter would want this to happen.

I think you've been patient enough. A polite business-like certified return receipt letter giving a deadline with the threat of exposure if the deadline isn't met is a good way of demanding payment. Be sure to enclose a copy of the contract with that letter and refer to it in the letter. Enclose copies of any other evidence that the promoter owes you money, just so there are no doubts about it. There is no excuse for not paying you right away without previous notice that you would be paid later.,m::

There is a bellydance boycott tribe??

That's just wrong! I've only hosted two events, and both of them were flat (hourly) fees and the instructors were paid before they left town. There's no excuse for not paying. Thirty days is generous, and if you send the certified mail now with a drop dead date of two weeks that will be around thirty days total. I'm all for outing her. Normally I think personality conflicts/tiffs should be nameless, but this is different. She is not living up to a contract that she agreed to. Services were rendered and you should be paid.

Originally Posted by Uulady

There is a bellydance boycott tribe??

Belly Dancer Boycotts - Tribe

Interesting. Thanks much! :)

I have always paid my workshop instructors the same day as they work. I have never, in 9 years, ever been "too busy and stressed out" to pay same-day, even when I have worked with percentage splits!

It's especially easy to pay a flat rate . . . you can even make the check out a month beforehand and have it ready in a nice envelope to hand the workshop instructor, along with a smile and a "thank you."

I can see the need to wait a week or so for payment to be received in the mail, if necessay, but this is terrible, Patrisha! (You can be guaranteed this will not happen to DaVid on April 5th! )

Deborah

I'm having a hard time imagining a rationale for this too. The only reason I suggested 1 month is to rule out all possibilities that some unforseen circumstances are holding up the response i.e. death in the family, hospitalization, house burned down, or some other tragedy....

(Wouldn't it be awful to get really upset and vocal about a non-payment and then find out from the family that the person had died or something? LOL)