Orit Maftsir

[Lauren_]

When we were in Egypt, Andrea and I got yelled at by a man who wanted to know why we attacked Saddam Hussein. Which, of course, Andrea and I didn't do. But there was no point trying to explain to the man how I personally feel about our involvement in Iraq, he was completely beside himself and shaking with rage.

This happened in an elevator, we were trapped alone with him and his friend. It was frightening.

I strongly believe that people shouldn't be judged by the actions of their governments, or their religious leaders, or fringe fanatics within their religion.

[Zana]

Originally Posted by sophie

Saying that Israeli dancers suffer a conflict of interest when their government bombs Lebanon is like saying that American dancers suffer a conflict of interest when their government bombs Iraq.

Exactly. And I do think most people here realize this.

I'm American. I've done a lot of traveling and living abroad and have very often found myself in the position of being assumed to agree with -- and called upon to defend -- actions and positions of "my" government that I didn't support at all. This struck me as anything from naive to ignorant to narrow-minded to downright offensive to frightening, depending on how it was presented.

Knowing how much diversity there is even within our own little social circles, how can we conflate the character, attitudes, and opinions of an individual with what we know (or think we know) about the country that issued her passport, or worse yet with that country's government? It's unfair and uncalled for, whoever the target and whatever the context.

Suzana

[Zana]

(I see Lauren beat me to it.)

[Lauren_]

Yours was broader & far more eloquent, though.

[Zana]

I don't know about that, Lauren, but thank you. It all comes back to a screaming man in an elevator somehow -- I've had that experience, too, and it left me shaking.

I lived in Japan for two years, working at a US university branch there, and the first Gulf war began in the middle of my stay. Every day for months, when we arrived at the office there would be at least one message on the answering machine that was a more or less graphic variation on "So how many Iraqis have you killed today?" It was unsettling and frustrating. I always wished I could track the guy down and suggest we meet up for a chat -- maybe at one of the antiwar demonstrations outside the US consulate, since most of the staff was going to be there anyway.

I just wish people would learn not to assume.

[kamilia]

Originally Posted by Lauren_

When we were in Egypt, Andrea and I got yelled at by a man who wanted to know why we attacked Saddam Hussein. Which, of course, Andrea and I didn't do. But there was no point trying to explain to the man how I personally feel about our involvement in Iraq, he was completely beside himself and shaking with rage.

This happened in an elevator, we were trapped alone with him and his friend. It was frightening.

I strongly believe that people shouldn't be judged by the actions of their governments, or their religious leaders, or fringe fanatics within their religion.

Side note: Incidents against tourists are taken very seriously by the Egyptian police, and if the assailants are police themselves , the incident is taken very seriously by their superiors. If you feel frightened, don't accept it. (That sounds scary, I hope you got through it ok)

Back to the topic: We do get (stupidly) judged by the actions of leaders we didn't vote for. However, saying that an Israeli woman might be conflicted because of what her government is doing to Lebanon, not because of the issue itself, but because she is doing a dance that is shared by the entire ME, is illogical.

[leenanyc]

Orit fans here is a tribe for her!
Orit Maftsir of Isreal - tribe.net

[gympie4570]

mmmmm... all your comments are very interesting. Im off to Israel in a few weeks straight after the lovely U.S.A and I'm hoping to meet with Orit to buy some of her yummy costumes!!

does anyone know Asi hasskels website the he is her costume designer?

[sophie]

Originally Posted by gympie4570

hence you will never see orit dance in an Arab country such as Egypt, its dangerous for Jews to go there and tourists as well in some instances.My boyfriend is forbidden as a jew to enter any arab/muslim country, and if he did so he would be arrested at the airport (thats scary!!) Its all a shame .... anyway (Egypt has a treaty with Israel but is still not smart to go there if your jewish ) .

This is not entirely correct. Jews aren't forbidden to most Arab countries, but Israelis are. There is a big difference. Also Israel has a treaty with Egypt and Jordan, and there are many Israeli tourists that go there every year. I've been to Jordan twice in the past month and I was treated superbly.
Israeli dancers go to Egypt to study both privately and at the festivals. I've even heard of dancers who performed at the Ahlan Wasahlan show, only they weren't announced as Israelis. I'm not sure I can find a reference to this, it might have been even at this forum. On another forum (Russian) I read about an article in one of the Egyptian papers that criticized the fact that Israeli dancers were welcome at the Nile Group festival. So yes, the general public is not kind to us as a people, and yet the dancers get treated well within the community.

[ejaghana]

Originally Posted by sophie

This is not entirely correct. Jews aren't forbidden to most Arab countries, but Israelis are. There is a big difference. Also Israel has a treaty with Egypt and Jordan, and there are many Israeli tourists that go there every year. I've been to Jordan twice in the past month and I was treated superbly.
Israeli dancers go to Egypt to study both privately and at the festivals. I've even heard of dancers who performed at the Ahlan Wasahlan show, only they weren't announced as Israelis. I'm not sure I can find a reference to this, it might have been even at this forum. On another forum (Russian) I read about an article in one of the Egyptian papers that criticized the fact that Israeli dancers were welcome at the Nile Group festival. So yes, the general public is not kind to us as a people, and yet the dancers get treated well within the community.

Hi Sophie,

It's so great to hear that dancers from Isreal are welcome at the Egyptian festivals. I hope that maybe that friendliness and welcoming attitude will catch on to the general public in both Isreal and Egypt!!!

[sophie]

Originally Posted by ejaghana

I hope that maybe that friendliness and welcoming attitude will catch on to the general public in both Isreal and Egypt!!!

I seriously doubt it knowing the attitude towards this art form and the ways of politicians in the Middle East. I just hope it doesn't get worse for those caught in the middle...

[gympie4570]

shalom motek!! Just referencing my jewish Israeli boyfriend in regards to it being dangerous for Israelis to go to Egypt.He feels that he looks obviously jewish and he feels that he could well be targeted for being so. Its the same where we live if where at the corner store which is Lebanese owned, he doesn't allow me to say he is Israel in front of the owners, as we dont know these people and there political persuasions, it could be dangerous for him, I dont tell the Lebanese restaurant owners where I dance, that my partner is Israel or I would as my boyfriend says I will defiantly lose my jobs as a way to hurt him. Its funny he hated bellydance, the music ect... because its arab... but I have softened him up and now he is tolerant of it, Lets hope that this tolerance is building in both direction in terms of bellydance!!! :)

Originally Posted by Lauren_

When we were in Egypt, Andrea and I got yelled at by a man who wanted to know why we attacked Saddam Hussein. Which, of course, Andrea and I didn't do. But there was no point trying to explain to the man how I personally feel about our involvement in Iraq, he was completely beside himself and shaking with rage.

This happened in an elevator, we were trapped alone with him and his friend. It was frightening.

I strongly believe that people shouldn't be judged by the actions of their governments, or their religious leaders, or fringe fanatics within their religion.

yeah, that sucks. kinda like after 9/11 how some muslims got harrassed and beaten...our places of worship vandalized, threatening phone calls, people giving you dirty looks based on your looks or name. not getting hired for jobs based on your name. it's not fun. and unfortunately you 2 had a taste of what many people in the usa have to go thru daily. but what can you do?

[shirel]

Orit is an amazing dancer. Her movements are very smooth, her hips are swift and clean, and she is very creative. Having seen her perform, I have to say she is enchanting. the only criticism I have is that her expressions are a bit over the top for me, but some love that about her. I am a fan.
I don't understand the controversy about her just because she is Israeli. Many "arab" nations are not on the friendliest of terms but no one would raise an eyebrow if a syrian dancer became big (since there is a huge conflict between syria and lebanon). dance, and art in general is what raises us all above the stench of politics and war.
Orit's festival in Israel has done a lot for the peace between arabs and jews in the region. Palestinian dances were taught by a famous Palestinian dance troupe, Sabah, an amazing Israeli Arab drummer taught classes and performs for Orit.

[shirel]

visit his studio!!!! i think it's in ramat hasharon, i can't wait to go!!!! have a great trip!

[ejaghana]

Originally Posted by shirel

Orit is an amazing dancer. Her movements are very smooth, her hips are swift and clean, and she is very creative. Having seen her perform, I have to say she is enchanting. the only criticism I have is that her expressions are a bit over the top for me, but some love that about her. I am a fan.
I don't understand the controversy about her just because she is Israeli. Many "arab" nations are not on the friendliest of terms but no one would raise an eyebrow if a syrian dancer became big (since there is a huge conflict between syria and lebanon). dance, and art in general is what raises us all above the stench of politics and war.
Orit's festival in Israel has done a lot for the peace between arabs and jews in the region. Palestinian dances were taught by a famous Palestinian dance troupe, Sabah, an amazing Israeli Arab drummer taught classes and performs for Orit.

This is really really good to hear!