I've never done this before but I'd like to; I am considering bringing in dancers for workshops. I wanted to know what the costs are for this, generally speaking; is there a flat rate for the dancer just to come, then they get whatever they charge for the workshop? Please let me know.
You should contact the workshop instructor and ask them for their rates. Generally, you will need to pay for their travel and per diem expenses, as well as their workshop fees. Also figure into your budget the cost for venue rental, as well as marketing.
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When somebody challenges you to dance, you have to dance back at them, or else they'll think you're weak.
We do both, that is, we are workshop instructors and we also sponsor instructors. We have paid up to 250.00 per hour as a going rate and covered travel and accomodations on top of this and have also worked with teachers that charge less and will take gas money... some have a separate fee for performances too. Each gig is different I guess. Sometimes it depends on how long you want the person to teach and how far they have to travel.
I noticed you said dancers plural. Do you mean several at one time? I would definitely start small. Bring in one instructor, have one workshop, maybe a small show to go with. Most instructors have flat hourly rates, plus you pay for their travel/room/food, plus a performance fee if you have a show. Other main expenses are the workshop venue and show venue and advertising.
In our experiences, putting on a workshop event with one guest instructor/performer costs between 1-2 grand, but we have venues available to us for very cheap rates. We are generally happy just to break even.
There are so many variables! Teachers can charge hourly or do a split. Some charge extra for a performance in a show and some include it with the other rate. Venue rates can go from $50/hour to $1500 for just the evening. Don't forget about lights, sound, and a stage. These may or not be available where you rent so they could be an extra charge. Decide if you want to offer food at the workshop and show. Is it included in the admission? As already stated, expect to pay for all travel expenses and food for the instructor. My costs to do a workshop are $3000-$5000.
Just for workshop, not show / Here's a kinda simplistic model for a common way to do a workshop:
Make sure all details in writing for all involved parties.
-Instructor charges a flat rate to do the workshop, could be anywhere from $300 to $1000.00 and up.
-You cover travel, accommodations, meal expenses for instructor.
-What is charged for the workshop (ex. $80 4 hr wrkshop, or two 2 hr sessions @ $45 ea [can be way more or less depending on who it is] discounts usually apply for prepay vs at the door) times the number of participants =Gross sales.
Gross sales minus expenses [instructor, promotional materials, advertising, venue rental, set up expenses, helpers, snacks, etc] = net profit. The sponsor(s) keep the net profit.
Net profit = $0.00 or in the minus LOL! It is possible to make some $$ but hard work to keep expenses down & sales up, to round up enough participants; most sponsors do it because they want to bring dancers to their area; have their students/friends/mentors etc. experience a different type of instruction than what is available in their area. IOW, for love of the dance and to spread that around. Good luck & enjoy! It can be very rewarding.
PS There's probably a thread somewhere in BHUZ search...
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"Keep the sunny side up & the greasy side down!" -Dr. Paint
most of the instructors we have worked with have a set hourly rate, and also specify a minimum number of hours- unless you are hiring someone local, you do need to make it worth their time to give up an entire weekend (or more with travel time!) Everyone who we have hosted has also charged a per set fee for performances as well. You might be able to negotiate a discount for multiple sets or over a certain number of hours of instruction.
other expenses will include travel costs, room & board (for the instructor- many have been willing to stay with someone as long as it meets their needs) venue rental, advertising, printing costs for any materials distributed & for registration, programs, etc., insurance if your current insurance doesn't cover events like this already. Also consider whether you will provide things like bottled water or snacks for all day workshops.
& Leisa is right- it is very difficult to actually make any money with this unless you are also vending or manage to find good sponsors to help foot the bill.
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If people knew how hard I had to work to gain my mastery, it wouldn't seem wonderful at all. -Michelangelo
Regional names $100/hr or 50/50 plus transport and lodging, national/int'l names $175 - $200 hour or 70 (them) / 30 (us) split plus transport and lodging. We don't pay food per diem anymore because the person assigned to escort them around usually ends up taking them out to eat a lot - so we pay the escort instead :).
for the really big names you can expect to pay more than that...
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Originally Posted by maurazebra
Regional names $100/hr or 50/50 plus transport and lodging, national/int'l names $175 - $200 hour or 70 (them) / 30 (us) split plus transport and lodging. We don't pay food per diem anymore because the person assigned to escort them around usually ends up taking them out to eat a lot - so we pay the escort instead :).
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for the really big names you can expect to pay more than that...
True, oh queen. We haven't raised our eyes higher than Morocco, Artemis, some of the BDSS, Karim.. too scared to, I think. :)
I was taken aback by some quotes I got last year where the teacher wanted an extra $100 for each 100 students over the base number of 100 students. I had no idea some workshops got that large!
I've paid between $100-$250/hr depending upon who I've brought in, and I charge $100/hr.
You also need to pay for all transportation, lodging and meals. Also, don't forget to factor in studio rental fees, and any other associated expenses like marketing, food if you're feeding the students, etc. All those little things add up!
Tally up all your expenses, then divide them by how many people you can reasonably expect to attend. Don't set your sights too high, or you could wind up paying out of your pocket. Best to set your prices on the safe side, and if more people sign up than expected, you have a profit.
I live in a small town, and here.... Well, let's just say I make ends meet. I know in larger cities people can make decent money holding a workshop, but keep in mind where you live. It's definitely a labor of love for me, and something I only do once a year for the sake of bringing in quality instruction to the local dancers.
Also, I've found it soooo much less headache to rent a banquet hall where the staff there does all my set up and clean up for me. Ditto with the associated Gala theatre. They take care of all the sound system, set up, clean up, lighting, etc.
....usually a % of the student fee goes twords venue....so, if each student pays $50.00, you make $45.00 a head....BUT most set a price they must make .thats why you set a cut off date for sign ups, so you know if you need to cancel , not getting the head count you need.
Start small with someone "kind of" local if you can.
You NEED a written contract before anything happens - make sure the instructor understands that or he/she may put your "event" on their public calendar before you've even got the details worked out or signed s contract. Awkward!
Start small with someone "kind of" local if you can.
You NEED a written contract before anything happens - make sure the instructor understands that or he/she may put your "event" on their public calendar before you've even got the details worked out or signed s contract. Awkward!
Yes, start small!
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"Keep the sunny side up & the greasy side down!" -Dr. Paint
The instructors I've had at my festival have requested either a fee based "per student" (with a guaranteed minimum of whatever amount we agree upon) or a flat fee per hour. Flat fee seems more common now. The most I have been asked to pay is $150 per hour, minimum two hours. So, if the workshop is 90 minutes, I pay for two hours.
Because I live in the Los Angeles area, I'm very fortunate to have many big name dancers/instructors who are local to me. I have brought in only one true out-of-town instructor and I was very fortunate that this instructor (our own Jesennia) was coming to my area for another reason at the same time and was generous enough to not request travel fees. Also with Jes' workshop, our own Carolynn took Jes into her home for that weekend, which was wonderful!
In general, I price 90-minute workshops at about $30 for advance purchase and $35 at the door, which I believe to be reasonable; two-hour workshops cost $5 more in each category. Since I price to break even for the instructor fee only, not other expenses associated with the workshop, such as rent* at about 10 students, I might not be able to use an instructor who charges $250 an hour without thinking long and hard about whether enough folks would pay a minimum of $45 for a two-hour workshop. Even the really big names sometimes do not generate adequate attendance, especially now.
As to paying a workshop instructor to perform, I've only done that when I produced a dance concert featuring current and past workshop instructors and special guests in conjunction with, but separate from, my festival. All of them would have been happy to do it for nothing, but I preferred to honor those performers with pay, even if only $100 each. Those workshop instructors who have danced during the festival itself have never requested pay and, I have to admit, I've never offered.
* I don't calculate workshop space rent as part of the fee because I rent the entire facility for my festival. If I was to have just a workshop then, of course, cost of venue would be very important!
Here is my all time ever favorite thread about belly dance economics. I think it ought to be mandatory ready for everyone. LOL. Seriously, this is a really really really long thread, so grab a cup of coffee and relax before you dive in. However, it is full worth the read as I know it has changed how workshops have been negotiated with multiple artists & sponsors.
As a sponsor, I also think that it's important to make money doing this. A) Because your efforts to create a positive learning environment for everyone is worthy of compensation; and B) If you are doing this for free, then you are making it difficult for other organizers to make any money on their events. It's the equivalent of undercutting [yes, I realize I might get slammed for this perspective].
If you are saavy, ask lots of questions, then it's possible for you to get compensated for all of the time and energy it will take to create a well-organized weekend event.
I always ask myself what I want to pay myself first. I make a list of all my expenses (including my own "paycheck" & a cusion fund) and add it all up. Then I divide it by a very conservative number of potential attendees. If the resulting number is something I think people are willing to pay, then I move forward. If not, then I take another look at the expenses to see if there is anything I can cut. Or, I negotiate for a lower price with the teacher.
Once you do this a few times, you'll be more able to accurately predict attendance & expenses. The first time is always the hardest. I agree with the previous post...start small.
__________________ Samira Tu'Ala, Organizer of the Las Vegas Bellydance Intensive & Festival September 9-12, 2010 at the FLAMINGO Hotel & Casino 1-888-LV-RAKS-U (1-888-587-2578)
We have been doing shimmyfest since 2001. It varies in pricing for instructors. There are tons of little expenses to think about!
This year we are doing shimmyfest for charity in addition to the big shimmyfest. I would recommend doing a smaller one for charity. We have 5 local people who are donating 1 hour each of their time to teach something. They don't get paid as they are donating time. Our venue is 2500 sq feet in a dance school which is costing us $400 for the entire day. Love the place because it's all hardwood floors and tons of mirrors. The price is $25 in advance or $35 at the door and you get all your workshops and a sandwich lunch. I'm buying all the sandwich food at Sam's Club which will cost approx $200. The sound system is already there and I own stage lights which are affordable. Plan to spend about $300 for basic stage lights and stands. Nothing fancy, just super basic.
We will have an evening show for $5 advance and $10 at door. The show is open to any dancers who want to perform and it's 1st come, 1st serve with only 25 spots open.
We are also opening up tables for dancers to sell their used costumes. $10 if we provide table or $5 if they bring their own.
We are asking everyone to bring a canned food item or hygiene product to donate. Then after our expenses are paid, we will donate a huge portion to charity, hold some back for the next year and I'll probably pay myself $100 bucks just because of all the work. My main goal is to raise money for charity, though.
I recommend doing a "trial" workshop for charity. This way it's low pressure, you can cover expense, you get teachers to donate time. (I'm paying one $50 for gas money) They don't have to be big names.....but for many instructors it's a good and fun opportunity for them to teach at a workshop.
Here is my all time ever favorite thread about belly dance economics. I think it ought to be mandatory ready for everyone. LOL. Seriously, this is a really really really long thread, so grab a cup of coffee and relax before you dive in. However, it is full worth the read as I know it has changed how workshops have been negotiated with multiple artists & sponsors.
As a sponsor, I also think that it's important to make money doing this. A) Because your efforts to create a positive learning environment for everyone is worthy of compensation; and B) If you are doing this for free, then you are making it difficult for other organizers to make any money on their events. It's the equivalent of undercutting [yes, I realize I might get slammed for this perspective].
If you are saavy, ask lots of questions, then it's possible for you to get compensated for all of the time and energy it will take to create a well-organized weekend event.
I always ask myself what I want to pay myself first. I make a list of all my expenses (including my own "paycheck" & a cusion fund) and add it all up. Then I divide it by a very conservative number of potential attendees. If the resulting number is something I think people are willing to pay, then I move forward. If not, then I take another look at the expenses to see if there is anything I can cut. Or, I negotiate for a lower price with the teacher.
Once you do this a few times, you'll be more able to accurately predict attendance & expenses. The first time is always the hardest. I agree with the previous post...start small.
I printed & read up the long thread above, with coffee, , very informative! Thanks
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"Keep the sunny side up & the greasy side down!" -Dr. Paint
I printed & read up the long thread above, with coffee, , very informative! Thanks
LOL...I'm super glad you enjoyed the thread (and hopefully the coffee too). Very long and very informative indeed.
__________________ Samira Tu'Ala, Organizer of the Las Vegas Bellydance Intensive & Festival September 9-12, 2010 at the FLAMINGO Hotel & Casino 1-888-LV-RAKS-U (1-888-587-2578)
, very informative! Thanks
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