I have a general comment about mentorship: A mentoring relationship in any field requires considerable commitment from both the mentor and the student. No good teacher will ever accept that responsibility unless they believe the student deserves this honor, because a bad students is a waste of time (a professional's time is valuable) and reflects badly upon the mentor (and thus also upon his or her other students). Who would ever agree to mentor a student who makes it clear that he or she does not honor the rules of the discipline?
A reference or recommendation from a well-respected person carries *a lot* of weight, and recommending/being associated with a bad apple is a very, very bad thing - in the long run, it does more damage to the person doing the recommendation than the person being recommended. While I do not have the same insight in the dance world as I do in the sciences, it boggles my mind how somebody could possibly expect (as their right, even) to receive support and advice, while at the same time publicly and very clearly rejecting the accepted rules within the community for being a good, promising student and well-respected professional.
To the scientist in me, based on what I read here, Teena is like a somebody who is well-known as a plagiarist throwing a hissy-fit because nobody wants to write her a letter of recommendation.
Anyways, the whole discussion is really a bit strange: somebody who said before that she does not drive but desires to become a professional dancer in the greater DC area smells like an old-fashioned troll to me.
[quote=LeylaFahada;502002]The third offered to barter with me when I lost my job and and had to make cutbacks.
Lara's right too - there are unethical teachers out there, but luckily Teeny lives in an area with many amazing and ethical teachers that the community can vouch for.QUOTE]
Would you care to give me contact information for the teacher willing to barter?
Also, above you called me 'Teeny.' Was that a typo, or is it possible you knew me as a child. A woman that worked for my father managing his
STRIPCLUBS that we called Turkey (real name Linda, brother named Isthmus who remains (ed) in Turkey) used to call me that. My father was Ernest and my mother was Carol. Last name Byrd.
teena, there are many, many teachers in the area, at least 3 in anne arundel area.........barter may be a possibility, but they need to know you, AND that you're willing to commit to the work and discipline required to learn this art and all connected to it...
while pro tools are necessary for a potential pro career, continued classes and instruction are the greatest tools in a pro's basket.....i began dancing 25 years ago....i too am in financial straits, but when i can, and when i have the money, i study and take workshops (difficult in this economy, but i remain optimistic :p)....current pros AND master teachers STILL take workshops and learn.....
and more importantly, if someone tells you to wait, it's in your own interest, while you are prepared, not only talent-wise, but in other aspects, like style/grooming, deportment, polish, ethics, business knowledge, etc......knowledge of the culture, music, cultural sensitivity are also key tools to a successful career, and noone gets that with out the assistance of teachers and fellow dancers.......
noone is saying you can't pursue, just to be patient and build the relationships and the chops needed thru excellent instruction and developing in your community
2- We live in an area with a lot of diplomats and ambassadors. They have something called diplomatic immunity. This means that should one of them hire you to dance in their room and they decide to rape you, you have zero legal recourse. They could kill you and they wouldn't be held accountable, not by our govt, and possibly not their own.
Shudder. I've never thought about diplomatic immunity beyond the car with the diplomatic plates that always parks in the handicapped spot on my friend's street. If I get over this insomnia, I think I'm going to have nightmares.
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Teena, I apologize, that was a typo. I am so bad with names.
Ruta is right that a barter relationship might have to be built, but I will make a list for you of teachers who might be able to help you out. I can't make any promises on their behalf, but it's a place to start.
But there are some good deals floating around out there too! So hopefully you can take advantage of those.
[quote=TeenaByrd;589375]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeylaFahada
The third offered to barter with me when I lost my job and and had to make cutbacks.
Lara's right too - there are unethical teachers out there, but luckily Teeny lives in an area with many amazing and ethical teachers that the community can vouch for.QUOTE]
Would you care to give me contact information for the teacher willing to barter?
Also, above you called me 'Teeny.' Was that a typo, or is it possible you knew me as a child. A woman that worked for my father managing his
STRIPCLUBS that we called Turkey (real name Linda, brother named Isthmus who remains (ed) in Turkey) used to call me that. My father was Ernest and my mother was Carol. Last name Byrd.
Who would ever agree to mentor a student who makes it clear that he or she does not honor the rules of the discipline?
*applause* Well said Steffi. Teena, in the beginning of the thread you also said you only wanted a teacher who would help you get there, not "put the breaks on."
That statement alone says you are not interested in honest helpful feedback if someone with years of professional and mentoring experience feel you need more education. If they say "honey, you need a little more time" and point out reasons why, trying to help you learn realistic self assessment, you get angry and assume they are trying to hold you back. If this is what you are afraid of, go to a teacher who has been in the business YEARS, but who has retired from performing. Takes away your assumption that they don't want the competition. We have wonderful teachers in this area who fall into this category.
Most qualified teachers have put in years and even decades into this dance. That translates to thousands (and thousands) of dollars of investment into our art, the music, the culture and our education. Getting money "out of it" before making serious investment (time, money, dedication etc) INTO ones own art is doing a disservice to the cultures and the art. I believe this art deserves our hard work and dedication and I believe it's our responsibility to learn as much as we can to represent the best we can, so others will fall in love with the dance as well.
As a busy, working professional I recommend education, education, education from live teachers. I follow my own advice- as I still take a weekly class and take workshops etc. I recommend that not to "hold anyone back", but because from everything I've seen and experienced that is the best way to "get there."
And Shems- Loved your helpful points. True every single one.
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www.samirashuruk.com The essence of all art is to have pleasure in giving pleasure~ Mikhail Baryshnikov.
Last edited by SamiraShuruk; 01-22-2010 at 10:11 AM.
A reference or recommendation from a well-respected person carries *a lot* of weight, and recommending/being associated with a bad apple is a very, very bad thing ...
Yes, referrals from a highly respected professional go a long way. It is polite to always ASK a person if you can use them as a referral.
...and now the difficult part for me: Referrals and honesty. Two dancers I know received this email from you, Teena
"Hi. I am a friend of Samira's and noticed that you are coordinating bellydancers for a live event on the 24th. I am new to performance with 3 sets under my belt, and would greatly appreciate it if you would consider me. My style is mostly American Cabaret, and you can find video of me at YouTube - TeenaByrd's Channel. Thanks! "
Your wording is very polite, your spelling is good... but you and I have never even met. Fortunately you wrote this to people who 1) know me and 2) figured "if she knew Samira wouldn't she know Samira is organizing that hafla?"
I'm going to state this very clearly: Please don't use my name as a reference.
As far as I know there is not another professional level performer in the area with the name Samira. Even if you are referring to someone else who is simply under the radar, others will assume you mean me out of familiarity.
It is in your own best interest to be honest about who recommends you as once people feel they have been lied to (and/or about) it is difficult to regain trust.
For the record; education is key. Learning from videos does not give you the immediate feedback of a teacher. Feedback is a vital learning tool. I recommend finding a teacher who will be honest with you about your current skill set and knowledge level AND being open to hearing what they say.
For the other folks on this thread- Teena is very much "real" and in the MD area seeking to go pro. She is not a troll. Teena, these are all on public sites, so I'm not trying to be invasive, merely trying to help others believe you are real and pursuing this in earnest. For more info please check out her pages. When I expressed my concern to a friend (about Teena contacting people saying she's my friend) my real friend shared with me links she found when Teena started posting on Bhuz. YouTube - TeenaByrd's Channel Teena (Teena Byrd) | MySpace Babalon .:. Search results http://community.wooeb.com/ViewProfi...rofileid=66026
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www.samirashuruk.com The essence of all art is to have pleasure in giving pleasure~ Mikhail Baryshnikov.
Last edited by SamiraShuruk; 01-22-2010 at 10:59 AM.
Many people have addressed the points of adequate training and its necessity.
And it should be about more than just a teacher or certification to list on a resume, shouldnt it? Its the beginning of building a network of people (teachers and your classmates) who know you, who know your dance who can later refer gigs to you or possibly even sub in for you if you are sick and cant perform at an event you committed too. The bellydance world doesnt need to be all happy sisterhood, but a network of your peers IS important.
Another factor here is also image. Many of the dancers here on Bhuz agree that stripping can be an art. However, I think MOST of the dancers agree that it needs to be an art kept very separate from bellydance. People have worked very hard to prove that bellydancers put on family friendly shows and someone who has both bellydance and stripping in their public profiles on the internet can be a detriment to an entire community because that will all come up on a websearch.
Dancers involved in both often have separate screen names and profiles, so that when the general public does a web search for bellydance in a specific area, they dont get the two forms of entertainment confused.
Yes, referrals from a highly respected professional go a long way. It is polite to always ASK a person if you can use them as a referral.
...and now the difficult part for me: Referrals and honesty.
It is in your own best interest to be honest about who recommends you as once people feel they have been lied to (and/or about) it is difficult to regain trust. ...
For the other folks on this thread- Teena is very much "real" and in the MD area seeking to go pro. She is not a troll. Teena, these are all on public sites, so I'm not trying to be invasive, merely trying to help others believe you are real and pursuing this in earnest.
There are some very basic, very universal truths about professionalism--in any field, in all circumstances. One is NEVER to lie about or inflate your references. Once found out, you loose trust and integrity. In many fields you would be fired, and in professions requiring a license or certification you could face loosing your professional credentials. Unfortunately you can't be disbarred as a belly dancer, but you can damage your career beyond repair if you violate people's trust and misrepresent yourself.
You have been offered genuine support, advice, and opportunity on this thread and have chosen not only to disregard these offers, but also to apparently continue to engage in damaging and disrespectful business practices in your local community.
Perhaps you've made some mistakes and don't know how to recover and rebuild your relationships with local professionals. Perhaps you don't realize how disconnected your ambitions are with your level of skill and professional ethics. That's okay, we all make mistakes and learn.
If you are truly serious about becoming a talented and respected dancer in your area, or beyond its not too late. Tuck your tail between your legs, hold your head up high, and get in touch with local teachers and pros. Speak openly about your mistakes and early snafus. Humble yourself to ask for more coaching and instruction, mentorship, and guidance.
I'd be willing to bet that if you owned up to your mistakes, local dancers and pros would accept the apology and work with you to develop your career.
If you continue to misrepresent yourself though, you'll likely make adversaries, gain a bad reputation, and possibly face legal action from dancers whose names you've abused.
I live in a completely different part of the country, but the standards here are the same. Dancers work hard, gain the trust and respect of their "elders" and set out when they have both the talent and professional skills to do so.
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www.nayastrance.com Life is short, shimmy!
Last edited by nayastrance; 01-23-2010 at 09:37 AM.
Wow, just wow. Teena, you are nowhere near ready to be performing in the professional realm. You need to be in a "beginning" or "fundamental' level class with a reputable instructor. You need to develop movement technique, an understanding of how to put movements together into a choreography that looks like belly dance, stage presence, musicality, and many other skills.
I'm not sure how to say anything else that hasn't already been said very kindly and eloquently and repeatedly on this thread.
It takes many years of serious training and effort to become good enough to be a professional dancer in any genre. You are not there yet. Not even close. You don't even know enough about this dance form to be able to grasp the enormity of how much you don't know -- of how much you are missing the mark of a professional dancer.
I live a thousand miles from you, and we are not competitors so I have no selfish motive to "keep you down".
Do you think that is her in the black shorts? I have poor facial recognition skills, so I cant tell for sure, but if it is, I am afraid this young woman is disturbed.
Do you think that is her in the black shorts? I have poor facial recognition skills, so I cant tell for sure, but if it is, I am afraid this young woman is disturbed.
Yes, I am relatively sure this is the same person. Those videos are not something that should be associated with anyone wanting to present an image as a professional belly dancer.
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Yes, I am relatively sure this is the same person. Those videos are not something that should be associated with anyone wanting to present an image as a professional belly dancer.
Ok... the up the shorts shot totally sceeved me out. A public mastubatory fantasy such as this is a total disgrace for anyone calling themselves a professional...anything.
Ummm....Okay. We have Marilyn Manson, several Youtube videos that are borderline pornographic, several photos that are borderline pornographic, references to (Anton?) LeVey (the satanist/warlock?), and an approach to ME dance that leaves me feeling somewhat icky.
Perhaps Teena has gotten bellydance confused with stripping, or other sexually oriented club styles of dance? But no, she is trying to get into performance venues for ME dance, using references from people she doesn't know whose names she got from this forum.
Getting her banned from bhuz may be a start, but I'm not sure how much it will accomplish in the long run. This woman has some issues though-no question.
Getting her banned from bhuz may be a start, but I'm not sure how much it will accomplish in the long run. This woman has some issues though-no question.
I think continuing to give dancers who have lost their way education and access to information is better than banning them.
She did come on here to ask for help in her own way.
These are pretty harsh criticisms to swallow. Maybe in time the truths in them will sink in.
I agree with eshe- I try to have hope for everyone. Teena really does seem off the deep end at the moment. I really hope in time she will look back & understand why everything seems so wrong now, & perhaps improve both in dance & in tactful relationships, but for now I'm ready to move on without the drama & I do question whether she came here for help or for attention.
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If people knew how hard I had to work to gain my mastery, it wouldn't seem wonderful at all. -Michelangelo
Teenabyrd, you live within easy traveling distance of some of the best dancers and instructors in the country, both seasoned big names and talented up and coming youngsters -- Artemis Mourat, Yasmine, Faten Salama, Lucy, Shems, Samira Shuruk, Damiena, and many others I'm forgetting off the top of my head.
+1: there is an amazing number of amazing dancers in the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenaByrd
...if we could only move forward immediately instead of wasting my time stretching out classes that may not teach me anything new.
You know that statement: "the more I learn, the more I know how much I don't know"? It might be overused, but it's overused for a reason - it's true. Anyone can learn more about this dance. People who have studied for decades still work on their skills, still take classes from others, still travel "over there" to learn what we might not get as easily "over here," still discover new things, still have things they'd like to improve.
Also, you don't just learn from teachers, either. You learn from the whole community. I've learned plenty from dancers who were at the same experience level as me, more experienced, and less experienced. I believe you can learn from any situation that you see the dance, even if it's an absolutely dreadful, shameful excuse of a BD performance whose only apparent lesson is What Not To Do.
In dance, as well as life: I think that believing there is nothing new to learn is a recipe for disaster.
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People come to see beauty, and I dance to give it to them. - Judith Jamison
Last edited by dancingstar; 01-26-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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