Veganism

[rakgirl]

Originally Posted by ssipes

I have to admit this comment puzzles me. Can you elaborate?

Sedonia

Well this dance was created by women for women. the movements exagerate our natural movements. the way we walk move pick things up turn. it's all exagerated femeninity. it also has lot of health benefits. besides the obvious aerobic impact and toning and stretching. the undulations and circles are the best way to exercise your female organs. it provides an internal massage and gets blood flowing. the shimmies help move the lymphs. theres no pump in your lymphatic system. so doing exercise and of course gravity are the only ways to move them. a chest shimmy helps move those in your breast and will help to prevent breast cancer. a hip shippy will help to move them around your sexual organs and help avoid cysts and fibroids, etc. Also if you're into yoga and chi and all that. same thing there its a good way to circulate energy.
now some of u won't agree with me but i'm gonna just tell u the facts as i know them.
all the dairy products and meat and processed foods cause many female problems- fibroids, cysts, infertility, painful cramps, bloating, etc. this dance counteracts those things and a vegan diet counteracts them as well. together they can help u be a much healthier woman.
now i really sound like a new age hippie vegan huh?

[rakgirl]

a story was in the papers about an atlanta couple who just got life in prison. they are vegans and their 6 week old baby was severely malnourished. he was just 3 1/2 lbs. and he was only fed soy milk, apple juice and some breast milk. apparently the problem wasn't what they fed him but how much. when the police came their cabinets and fridge had nothing in them except for apple juice and soy milk. it was a such a sad story. i think they were crazy and that wasnt the usual for vegans. i know many vegan babies who are healthy, in fact i know no skinny ones. mostly because they are usually breast fed. i couldn't believe this story. but she probably couldnt breast feed because she was starving, herself.

[tahiradancer]

On the subject of the couple whos child died - unfortunately we don't have enough information about what was going on with them, their backgrounds, education, etc. What was their support group, did they have interaction with medical professionals, etc.

I agree that most infants of vegans I know are robust. I also know that those who for what ever reason cannot nurse will use which ever formula is best for their child. There is even a commercial infants formula which is soy based. This situation is a very unfortunate occurrance and not at all typical of people who live an educated Vegan or Vegatarian life style.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

[kateryna]

Originally Posted by kirsten

I feel your pain even though I just don't eat beef or pork (still eat lamb, fish, and chicken).

Recently, I went out to dinner for my Mom's and my Grandmother's birthday and they started reading the menu to me saying things like "ohh, you can eat this!!"

If they treat me this way when I don't eat beef or pork -- imagine what would happen if I became a vegan! **laughing**

Jade

I am like Jade, I only eat fish and lamb sometimes. Tried to go vegetarian for a few month, but can't stay away from sushi and lamb kebob. Recently I was on a dancing trip with a bunch of dancers who were vegetarian. Going out to eat was an interesting expirience.

[jawahir]

Originally Posted by rakgirl

Are any of the rest of you dancers out there Vegans or Vegetarians?
I think it compliments the health of this dance form beautifully. Women new to the dance often ask me if their stomach will look like mine if they start doing this dance. I tell them it's not just the dance. for one thing, i'm 26, naturally small, have always ate relatively healthy, am a vegan now, and dance several times a week. I don't really do any other crunches or anything besides dance class stuff. But I think alot of it has to do with not eating alot of white- potatoes, bread, rice, etc.

My question is, does it seem to upset other people to you? I notice that people are sort of offended by my eating habits. They take it really personally. I dont' tell other people what they should eat but if they ask me about my choices, I tell the truth. At work, in my family, out and about. People act like my food choices are a personal attack on them. They compliment me on how great I look, how clear my skin looks, how healthy my hair is, my physique. Then when I start to talk about food and dance people say how they can't do that for whatever reason and how they think it's unhealthy. Suiddenly they get defensive. If i get a sniffle they say i need to eat a steak. now i am thin but i'm not skinny. I have some jelly, some butt etc. and my cheeks aren't caved in or anything.

just wondering about other dancers experiences with this.

i'm vegan, and mostly it just seems to annoy people in my family because they have to figure out what we can eat anytime we go out with them, or have anything to do with a meal. usually if we go out to eat, we have to choose where. my family are big eaters so we are very annoying to them. my mother in law once said "so what DO you eat, should i just make you a salad". i just laugh and say don't worry about it i'll bring some food for myself. i don't think it's that hard to think through what people can eat, but i guess that is the problem, people actually have to THINK. considering i am also gluten free, there really isn't much choice, but i am also very healthy and rarely get sick. i think people just don't get it. and it annoys me that they get put out by the way we eat. but i never mention it unless there is a reason to. i am also annoyed by the vegans who push their beliefs on everyone around them...makes the rest of us look bad. so it's not just you.

[jawahir]

while i agree with you about the preaching, it is important to ask what is in a dish if you have restrictions. i also have dietary allergies and i am sad that people refuse to go out to eat with me because of it. i don't behave badly but i do ask what is in something. and i don't go out somewhere i know i can't find anything on the menu, some places really have nothing for vegans, and even the salads have only dairy dressing. people are often too quick to snarf when i ask questions, and that really bugs me. i don't get like that, and i don't get what the big deal is.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Well, I don't mind if someone else wants to be a vegan, but I have no interest in trying to become one myself.

I probably wouldn't invite a vegan to my house for dinner because I have no idea how to cook that way.

I enjoy getting recipe ideas from vegans and vegetarians because I'm always looking for creative new ways to prepare vegetables.

I've had the misfortune of dining in restaurants with vegetarians who behaved badly. (Interrogating the waiter over whether the food contained meat products, whining there was nothing on the menu they could eat, insisting they could taste meat in the dish once it arrived even though other vegetarians at the table said they didn't taste any meat in it, made offensive remarks about the nice slab of meat on my plate, proselytizing to me about why I shouldn't eat meat, etc.) Because this has happened many times with different people (including one occasion where it happened three times in the same meal), and has always been extremely unpleasant, I now go out of my way to avoid going to restaurants with vegetarians or vegans unless I know them well enough to know they won't ruin my meal with their behavior.

I do agree with you that making healthy dietary decisions complements dance nicely.

[jawahir]

Originally Posted by Ainsley

...I'm a huge eater, and, unlike you, I pretty much live on carbs (in addition to salad). ......

i eat constantly pretty much, and i don't gain weight but i feel healthy with energy. i stayed with my best friend for a week and i ate and ate and cooked us vegan stuff and she loved it. she couldn't believe how much i eat, and never gain weight. she started buying the snacks i buy, and was so happy she could eat all she wants without the guilt. all my friends back east think i look great and are ready to try eating like i do...so they say, i have yet to see it, but like someone said before, i just eat what i eat and my health shows people it's a good thing. i don't preach anything ever. it is a huge challenge but once you figure out what you can eat, and balance your diet, it's not that bad.

i remember when i first went gluten free i was close to tears because i was so hungry and couldn't figure out what to eat. i am a huge bread lover, but my health was deteriorating so i had to figure something out, and gluten was it. but after i figured out there is still quite a bit you can eat being vegan and gluten free, life has gotten much better.

most of my protein comes from nuts, and beans and rice. my husband has a nut allergy, but he is not gluten free and eats some dairy, so often we end up eating separately.

here's another subject, what do you all think about the eating for your blood type? i am o- and my mom gets on my case all the time because i'm supposed to eat minimal legumes and more red meat...i just keep telling her, "do i look like i'm eating unhealthy?" and she always says no, i seem really healthy. she is unhealthy by the way, and i really don't think eating mcdonald's is good for anyone regardless of blood type.

[jawahir]

Originally Posted by rakgirl

a story was in the papers about an atlanta couple who just got life in prison. they are vegans and their 6 week old baby was severely malnourished. he was just 3 1/2 lbs. and he was only fed soy milk, apple juice and some breast milk. apparently the problem wasn't what they fed him but how much. when the police came their cabinets and fridge had nothing in them except for apple juice and soy milk. it was a such a sad story. i think they were crazy and that wasnt the usual for vegans. i know many vegan babies who are healthy, in fact i know no skinny ones. mostly because they are usually breast fed. i couldn't believe this story. but she probably couldnt breast feed because she was starving, herself.

that's so sad! my baby is also vegan and gluten free (allergies, don't go there). she is very healthy, has plenty of fat, and rarely gets sick. we nursed until 22 months. she is small for her age, and i worry that people will say it's because she's vegan, but my sister is far from vegan and her little girl is even smaller for her age...i believe it's hereditary. i just worry about that, being judged for being vegan. so far it hasn't happened and my nutritionist friend always tells me not to worry. terra looks like the picture of health. we've even thought about finding a vegan publication for her to model in. is there a vegan baby magazine lol.

[ssipes]

Originally Posted by Ainsley

One question for other vegetarians out there: what do you do to get Omega 3's and 6's? My grandmother has Alzheimer's. I really don't want to develop it, so I know I need my Omegas. I was taking flax oil, but I read that the Omegas in flax are absorbed well by internal organs with the exception of the brain, which is where I really need them. So at the moment I'm on fish oil, which I'm not really happy with. Any suggestions? I really don't know very much about nutrition.

I have also read that the omega-3's from plant sources (olive oil, flax oil, walnuts), while very good for you, are not absorbed exactly like those from animal sources. Especially for the brain-related functions.

I have two suggestions for replacing the fish oil. First, if you eat eggs you can buy several brands that are cage free, organic, and the chickens are fed flax seed supplements so the eggs are high in Omega-3s. Also, you might look in to getting krill oil instead of fish oil. Krill are still animals, but they are tiny invertebrates and lower on the food chain. I'm not saying this resolves every ethical issue, but ecologically it is better, plus krill should have far less pollutants (heavy metals etc) because those get concentrated up the food chain.

I try to eat both plant and animal omega 3's.

Sedonia

[ssipes]

Hi Rakgirl:

This is a belated reply, but I have safari issues with my PM function and I missed your reply to my question. I was confused by your original post because I guess I was looking for a connection from the original culture of the dance, but I can see you were just making a personal connection, which is great. I think we all define roles for the dance that transcend its original cultural context.

I think that most of the claims of problems with meat and dairy foods are related to how they are processed. For example there have been claims linking growth hormone used in dairy cows to earlier puberty in girls. This doesn't make milk a bad food any more than potentially harmful herbicides used on vegetables makes vegetables bad foods.

I would like to see evidence that organic lean meats or wild game are inherently bad foods. I do not think that they are. This doesn't mean people aren't free to make choices about the foods they eat. But several vegetarians here have expressed irritation in being told that they are not eating "healthy"; I'm just saying omnivores can feel the same irritation.

It is also good to keep in mind that people vary a great deal in any number of aspects of their metabolism and physiology, so there is no one diet that is idea for everyone, even on a purely physical basis.

Sedonia

Originally Posted by rakgirl

Well this dance was created by women for women. the movements exagerate our natural movements. the way we walk move pick things up turn. it's all exagerated femeninity. it also has lot of health benefits. besides the obvious aerobic impact and toning and stretching. the undulations and circles are the best way to exercise your female organs. it provides an internal massage and gets blood flowing. the shimmies help move the lymphs. theres no pump in your lymphatic system. so doing exercise and of course gravity are the only ways to move them. a chest shimmy helps move those in your breast and will help to prevent breast cancer. a hip shippy will help to move them around your sexual organs and help avoid cysts and fibroids, etc. Also if you're into yoga and chi and all that. same thing there its a good way to circulate energy.
now some of u won't agree with me but i'm gonna just tell u the facts as i know them.
all the dairy products and meat and processed foods cause many female problems- fibroids, cysts, infertility, painful cramps, bloating, etc. this dance counteracts those things and a vegan diet counteracts them as well. together they can help u be a much healthier woman.
now i really sound like a new age hippie vegan huh?

[Nisima]

Hi, "omnivore" Nisima checking in here - I can't survive without my dark leafy greens each and every day and love lOVE fish, fowl, and yes red meat. BUT, I don't eat the huge quantities restaurants slap on those plates - actually kinda turns my stomach!
I do respect everyone's choice of diet, as long as they remain healthy then it is working for them. But I have close friend who was vegetarian for 25 years and a year ago started having serious health problems relating to iron absorbtion that can't be fixed with iron supplements. She has supplmented her diet with fish and chicken but is having a hard time with the red meat that doctor wants her to have once in a while. Her husband is having no problems with his vegetarian eating habits but for her, it is a problem. When they come to my house for dinner I simply include vegetarian cheese casserole because please, vegetarians need more than leaves and twigs! I think it is mean-spirited to criticize anyone's diet choice for whatever reason and hard to believe that any decent restaurant could not come up with a pasta/veggie entree that doesn't even involve dairy - I actually ordered one because it sounded so good and this was not a pricey restaurant.
Whatever works, works and no one should be criticized or made to feel guilty whether they eat meat or not!
Oh, and people who get "ticked off" at a vegetarian with svelte body are just jealous, plain and simple and quite frankly would react the same way, or worse no matter what the response was to question "how you stay so slim". Well, that's too personal, and all the advice columns say when someone asks a personal question you don't want to answer or that you just KNOW will elicit a negative response, just ask them right back "why do you need to know"? That usually stops people in their tracks! GRRRR!

[bintbeled]

Somehow I missed this thread, which is very interesting reading. I've been vegetarian since 1983, when I tried it as an experiment and within a week had people commenting on the change in my appearance, how clear my skin looked, etc. This diet works for me.

I sometimes think that mentioning one's diet preferences is almost as bad as starting a political discussion, or discussing religion -- it can be very divisive. When meat-eaters find out I'm vegetarian, for example, it's almost like they feel like they should apologize to me, or justify eating meat. Hey -- we're all different, we all thrive on different diets. It's one of the wonders of the world.

I have encountered obnoxious vegetarians -- right in my own dance troupe! (No, not you, Damiena!) One of my most senior dancers is vegan, works with animal rescue, etc, but she is very laid-back about it, and says that she will quietly choke down a meat dish, or push it around on her plate, rather than be impolite and make a scene. Then dancer B became vegan, and she would interrogate us about exactly what all the ingredients were in various dishes. She made a scene and refused to eat her birthday cake, because the woman who baked it honestly thought the ingredients were OK but was mistaken. I do NOT like that type of vegetarian. One's dietary preferences should not be used as a weapon to make other people feel bad.

Hey, where's the smiley for climbing down from a soapbox??

[chessurecat]

I have been veggie for ............can't really remember, it's been so long.
I just went Vegan a month ago and so far so good. When I say Vegan, I mean, I now do not drink milk or eat eggs and cheese. I eat no flesh of any kind. This is a spiritual and ethical thing for me. I don't preach, 'cause I don't like to be preached to.
In fact, the employer of my former second job was a huge, overwieght-red-in-the-face man who always (in a very insulting way) took it upon himself to remind me how a steak would do me some good and some meat might give me character. ????? I heard this on a weekly basis for 6 months. Until I quit after telling him he looks to have eaten enough steaks for the two of us.

-I do get EXTREMELY sick of the opinions and lectures and sideways-glances.
-I have been 'un-invited' to dinners because people can't even seem to ASK what some options are when they find out about my preferrence ( just for the record, steamed veggies and brown rice are the BOMB for people like me, and soooo easy to prep. ).
-Three times, I've been passed up for dinners at weddings because the options are simply "chicken or beef"...this always leads to me sitting for 20 min. as others eat first and I wait for a salad. One time I was actually offered a dish of pasta smothered in some sort of diary sauce (I greatly appreciated that effort though).
The only sense I am picky is, I refuse to see meat sitting on my plate. Sorry. I can't do it.

And I'd like to disclose any rumors that all veggies/Vegans are skinny. Again, I have been veggie for maybe 7 years now and Vegan for one month......well, I sure ain't skinny I'm pushing 170!!!!!!!

[urbana]

Originally Posted by rakgirl

a story was in the papers about an atlanta couple who just got life in prison. they are vegans and their 6 week old baby was severely malnourished. he was just 3 1/2 lbs. and he was only fed soy milk, apple juice and some breast milk. apparently the problem wasn't what they fed him but how much. when the police came their cabinets and fridge had nothing in them except for apple juice and soy milk. it was a such a sad story. i think they were crazy and that wasnt the usual for vegans. i know many vegan babies who are healthy, in fact i know no skinny ones. mostly because they are usually breast fed. i couldn't believe this story. but she probably couldnt breast feed because she was starving, herself.

Dude! But LIFE in PRISON?
sh!t

[ozma]

I do make sure to thank my genes as well when people ask after my figure.

(I'm not skinny, but I'm a healthy wellbalanced hourglass, the phrase used in Japan is "Nice Body")

I think that sometimes bringing up just dance/excersize and dietary habits (vegetarian here) does put people on the defensive as if the Veg is saying "Hey, if you only got off your butt and did these things, you'd look like this as well!" so it sometimes helps to aknowledge that as much as excersize and healthy eating habits go a long way to shape a body...the type of changes that they create are different from body to body.

[Rafiah]

Careful with that tofu and too much soy. Very high in estrogen and breast cancer causing for some woman....fact not fiction..probably OK if you are in 20's but wouldn't continue for too long without finding out about your own biochemistry.

[urbana]

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

On the subject of the couple whos child died - unfortunately we don't have enough information about what was going on with them, their backgrounds, education, etc. What was their support group, did they have interaction with medical professionals, etc.

I agree that most infants of vegans I know are robust. I also know that those who for what ever reason cannot nurse will use which ever formula is best for their child. There is even a commercial infants formula which is soy based. This situation is a very unfortunate occurrance and not at all typical of people who live an educated Vegan or Vegatarian life style.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

I didn't realize the baby had died.

[Rafiah]

I mean, how much information does one need. A 6 week old baby that weighs 3 1/2 pounds is obviously dying. They rarely let babies leave the hospital weighing less than 4-5 pounds after birth. They were trying to make up an excuse for child abuse. They actually said that they had no idea that there was anything wrong with their child until it died. I mean really. I think they were just like religious fanatics with deficient brains. This was not normal people who were vegetarians. I think life in prison may be severe for them. Sterilization would be a better move.