Veganism

[rakgirl]

Are any of the rest of you dancers out there Vegans or Vegetarians?
I think it compliments the health of this dance form beautifully. Women new to the dance often ask me if their stomach will look like mine if they start doing this dance. I tell them it's not just the dance. for one thing, i'm 26, naturally small, have always ate relatively healthy, am a vegan now, and dance several times a week. I don't really do any other crunches or anything besides dance class stuff. But I think alot of it has to do with not eating alot of white- potatoes, bread, rice, etc.

My question is, does it seem to upset other people to you? I notice that people are sort of offended by my eating habits. They take it really personally. I dont' tell other people what they should eat but if they ask me about my choices, I tell the truth. At work, in my family, out and about. People act like my food choices are a personal attack on them. They compliment me on how great I look, how clear my skin looks, how healthy my hair is, my physique. Then when I start to talk about food and dance people say how they can't do that for whatever reason and how they think it's unhealthy. Suiddenly they get defensive. If i get a sniffle they say i need to eat a steak. now i am thin but i'm not skinny. I have some jelly, some butt etc. and my cheeks aren't caved in or anything.

just wondering about other dancers experiences with this.

[*Shira*]

Well, I don't mind if someone else wants to be a vegan, but I have no interest in trying to become one myself.

I probably wouldn't invite a vegan to my house for dinner because I have no idea how to cook that way.

I enjoy getting recipe ideas from vegans and vegetarians because I'm always looking for creative new ways to prepare vegetables.

I've had the misfortune of dining in restaurants with vegetarians who behaved badly. (Interrogating the waiter over whether the food contained meat products, whining there was nothing on the menu they could eat, insisting they could taste meat in the dish once it arrived even though other vegetarians at the table said they didn't taste any meat in it, made offensive remarks about the nice slab of meat on my plate, proselytizing to me about why I shouldn't eat meat, etc.) Because this has happened many times with different people (including one occasion where it happened three times in the same meal), and has always been extremely unpleasant, I now go out of my way to avoid going to restaurants with vegetarians or vegans unless I know them well enough to know they won't ruin my meal with their behavior.

I do agree with you that making healthy dietary decisions complements dance nicely.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

My question is, does it seem to upset other people to you? I notice that people are sort of offended by my eating habits. They take it really personally.

[damiena]

Vegetarian here (not vegan though, I cannot give up cheese...) and yes, people do seem offended by the fact I don't eat meat. I was not a vegetarian when I started the dance, but I have to say, I feel much better now that I don't eat meat. I did it gradually, I gave up pork then red meat and last chicken and turkey. I have never been a fish-eater as I don't care for the taste.

And yes, I get the unhealthy sermons as well from people. I truly don't think people realize how annoying it is, but I usually just smile and say that I eat a balanced diet and take vitamins and usually they leave it alone!

[rakgirl]

Oh I never thought about other vegetarians bad behavior. That's sad.

I'm not a vegan because i'm into animals or anything. In fact, I see nothing wrong with wearing fur. I just do it for health reasons and because I had alot of digestion issues before changing my diet.

So I guess I don't feel as passionately as some vegeratians.

I go to non- vegetarian restaurants and try to create a vegan meal. at most nice places the chef will do something special to me. at less nice spots i'll just order salad and nuts or something. i dont' complain if it tastes like meat, i just quit eating it. i try to go where my friends will enjoy even tho i know i may not be able to eat.

I also have to eat before i go to parties and events, i can never assume there is anything for me. for some friends parties i offer to bring something because i don't want people to make an effort for me and i can't eat it anyway. people often say, o i heard u were coming so i made potatoe salad and macaroni and cheese and ordered veggie pizza. i don't eat any of that and then i feel terrible. so now i tell them, don't go out of ur way for me i'll bring something or i just ate. i don't comment on other peoples food unless they ask me. which surprisingly happens alot.

last week i went to a dinner party. a friend's gramdmother asked me to get her some more chitterlings (pork intestines). i couldn't refuse her grandmother. so i went to the pot and put some in a bowl. it almost turned my stomach. i guess they saw it on my face. so it's a give and take. they don't like to see me make that face. i don't like to see the face people make when they find out i'm eating tofu.

it's time we all respect eachother more.

[steffib]

I don't eat meat - I do eat fish, though. Love the food (including tofu), I am healthy and happy.

In real life, I find that pretty much everybody is very supportive. My friends know about my choices, and respect them. In fact, many share them - or at the very least support them. I try to "convert" people - through good food. I don't believe in telling people "meat is bad" - my mantra is that "tofu and veggies are great", and I cheerfully take it as a challenge to prove that to the world ;-)

Now, online, I often get a different reaction, people who respond by stating how much the like McDonalds. Apart from the fact that I don't follow their reasoning on a culinary, social and environmental level, that always seems to be a tad strange, but I guess it is a form of rationalization on their side, and I don't take it personal.

And, I can also understand Shira's comments - those who are deeply committed to their choice or who feel that they have to fight for it can come across as pushy or judgmental, which is too bad. Not eating meat and cutting back to some degree on animal products is a positive choice, and I always frustrated when I see conflict and resentment coming from that. (I have to admit to questioning waiters, which can be a bit of a delicate art when one tries to figure out whether there is chicken broth in a dish, especially when one talks to relatively inexperienced waiters of Asian descent).

But, in summary - no problems for me. It's been a great choice for me to give up meat, and the majority of my interaction with others has been friendly and constructive.

[Lauren_]

Originally Posted by rakgirl

it's time we all respect eachother more.

That's the bottom line right there.

[Ainsley]

I'm a vegetarian: I do eat cage-free eggs and dairy products. I became a vegetarian for ethical rather than dietary reasons, but I never talk about it. For me, it's a personal choice about my impact on the world, and I don't believe that preaching does any good. If anything, it just gives people a negative impression of vegetarians/vegans and vegetarianism, as Shira pointed out (And I'm sorry you had those experiences! It's really terrible to have someone criticize your meal.).

I've been a lot healthier and been sick much less often since I switched to a vegetarian diet. I think the best impression I can make on others is to be an example of a healthy vegetarian and to let them make their own choices.

That said, I do get the "that sounds unhealthy" criticism a lot. I've always been thin (not skinny), but now everyone, even my family, assumes it's because I'm vegetarian. On a related note, it also drives me crazy that people associate being vegetarian with being on a diet, so they assume that I must eat abnormally small portions in addition to not eating meat. Not so! I'm a huge eater, and, unlike you, I pretty much live on carbs (in addition to salad).

The worst is when I ask for vegan meals when I travel, and the airline serves me some tiny portion of something with fruit for dessert. I need to eat! And where's my big honking piece of chocolate soy cake? :-)

One question for other vegetarians out there: what do you do to get Omega 3's and 6's? My grandmother has Alzheimer's. I really don't want to develop it, so I know I need my Omegas. I was taking flax oil, but I read that the Omegas in flax are absorbed well by internal organs with the exception of the brain, which is where I really need them. So at the moment I'm on fish oil, which I'm not really happy with. Any suggestions? I really don't know very much about nutrition.

[Egyptdancer]

Originally Posted by rakgirl

If i get a sniffle they say i need to eat a steak.

OK- this should Not be funny, but to me it is.
I just had this lecture Sunday again.
My eating habbits really seem to tick people off,
I am Always getting that lecture! :(

I went Vegetarian in 88?
Vegan in 89. . .no meat, milk, sea food, eggs, cheese, ice cream, ect
The problem is I wasn't supplementing correctly-
so I ended up in the hospital.

Recently I made a switch, and I now consider myself a 'recovering vegetarian'
I can again eat ice cream-
and I choke down milk, eggs, and cheese

But still no sea food or red meat.
I can sometimes eat chicken- but skinless, boneless, and cut up-
the slightest little thing wrong, and it sets me back and I can't eat it again for a long while.

My problem is I also have allergies: onions and carrots
I also DO Not like: mushrooms, green/red peppers, olives . . .many of the ingrediants in the 'regular' vegie foods.

Recently I went to a restaurant,
(I went w/ a friend who didn't tell the people making reservations about my food laws.) Without a problem they would have picked someplace else if they knew. . .but they had no idea.
So- the restaurant had *nothing* on the menu for me!
and I was so hungry too.
I asked about their vegetarian dish. . .onions, red & green peppers, carrots, & mushrooms. . .Nothing for me :(
So the waitress finally look at me and said. . .
"Well just tell me what you CAN have and we'll make something for you!"
I got a bowl of icky lettuce for dinner.

I do eat a balanced diet, take supplements, vitamins.
I work-out with weights 3 times a week to keep in shape.

I frequently come across people who make comments like-
oh your so skinny becasue you don't eat meat, you don't eat right.

No- I eat balanced,
I actually eat A LOT. . .MANY small meals so I have a high metabolism.
I do not eat fast food either.
I drink LOTS of water, I stopped drinking soda drinks in 1988 as well.

sigh-
So yeah, people can be argumentative, even mean about my eating habbits.
I don't push my habbits on anybody else.
so-
yeah, I just try to smile and say thank-you for the info.
Then I keep eating the way that works best for me.

Good Luck to you all!
~Zayna : )

[tahiradancer]

My son was a piscatorian for about a year. His decision was completely because he was tired of meat. (We had lived at his Midwestern Meat and potatos Grandfathers house for almost a year.)

We did get guff from some people. My father lost it becaue he had experienced the lectures and holier than thous from vegetarians in the past. One of my friends had issues until I let her know that his reasoning wasn't for ethical issues, just that he was tired of meat all the time. She seemed to be alright with that.

There is also a bit of a tribe mentality. We, as human beings, like it when we have things in common with other people in our lives. I had a friend who started going to Over Eaters Annon. and tried to convince me that the extra 30 lbs. I carried was due to being addicted to food. It took a lot of work to convince her that, no, it had to do with my simply not wanting to get off my back side and exercise. Or give up my weekly ice cream binge. She really wanted me to be part of her new group and belief system.

And sometimes people feel resentment because they would like to eat healthier but do not have the will power, ability. And they act out without thought. The key (okay, now I am going to be all hippy-esque) is to practice understanding, compassion and respect.

{{{HUGS}}}

[shahravar]

Hi All.
I was 18 when I fist turned Vegetarian(no meat,no marshmallow too) that was what? almost 17 years now.
With a "non-traditional" diet we limit the amount of choices we have in the commercial market.
Organic and Holistic foods are on the rise(prices too) as more businesses enter the special diet industry.
I am also a professional Banquet Chef and was a cook then.
Food like costumes is up to the individual.
I my self do not choose this life style for moral beliefs I choose it because of the over-consumerized food industy we have created.
It's hard to prepare 100# of chicken in a day and throw out 30# of it tomorrow.
But I have heard of production of lab grown muscle tissue that uses only one what do they say, cell of an animal...thus the animal does not die for those who have moral issues.
They can add say Omega 3's and other fortification.
They can also remove most of the cholesteral levels.
The university was working on food grade homegrown meats.
I saw this article in the Econimist magazine a few months back.

As a cook...wow...it might be about time we started supplimenting nature...so we don't run out of wild salmon...

p.s. most cooks enjoy a change in the menue with a little warning. Just call ahead of time earlier that day(not during a friday rush) and say...Hi, I will be dinning with you on _ _ date and I have some food allergies...etc can I please request a special with out these ingredients. p.s. you might tip extra for this service.

[rakgirl]

Originally Posted by Ainsley

I'm a vegetarian: I do eat cage-free eggs and dairy products. I became a vegetarian for ethical rather than dietary reasons, but I never talk about it. For me, it's a personal choice about my impact on the world, and I don't believe that preaching does any good. If anything, it just gives people a negative impression of vegetarians/vegans and vegetarianism, as Shira pointed out (And I'm sorry you had those experiences! It's really terrible to have someone criticize your meal.).

I've been a lot healthier and been sick much less often since I switched to a vegetarian diet. I think the best impression I can make on others is to be an example of a healthy vegetarian and to let them make their own choices.

That said, I do get the "that sounds unhealthy" criticism a lot. I've always been thin (not skinny), but now everyone, even my family, assumes it's because I'm vegetarian. On a related note, it also drives me crazy that people associate being vegetarian with being on a diet, so they assume that I must eat abnormally small portions in addition to not eating meat. Not so! I'm a huge eater, and, unlike you, I pretty much live on carbs (in addition to salad).

The worst is when I ask for vegan meals when I travel, and the airline serves me some tiny portion of something with fruit for dessert. I need to eat! And where's my big honking piece of chocolate soy cake? :-)

One question for other vegetarians out there: what do you do to get Omega 3's and 6's? My grandmother has Alzheimer's. I really don't want to develop it, so I know I need my Omegas. I was taking flax oil, but I read that the Omegas in flax are absorbed well by internal organs with the exception of the brain, which is where I really need them. So at the moment I'm on fish oil, which I'm not really happy with. Any suggestions? I really don't know very much about nutrition.

I just take the flax supplements. I don't know anymore about that but you should ask Dr. Sunyatta Amen. You can e-mail her from one of her websites. she's an naprapath, a raw vegan and a dancer.
www.vegsoul.com
www.gomamasita.com
www.bellydancersofcolor.com

[rakgirl]

I went Vegetarian in 88?
Vegan in 89. . .no meat, milk, sea food, eggs, cheese, ice cream, ect
The problem is I wasn't supplementing correctly-
so I ended up in the hospital.

I got sick too the first time i tried to go vegan. I lost alot of weight too. a naprapath said it was because I didn't detox first. It's really jarring to your body to have to get rid of all those toxins you've been eating forever. I just went cold turkey, no meat, dairy, processed food, white flour or white sugar. I ended up with flu like symptoms for a month. I started eating chicken again andit went away. This time I detoxed for a few days first. But sometime this spring or summer i'm going to do a full detox for a month. I did alot more research this time and am constantly thinking about what i'm eating, missing, needing. I keep track of protein and fat especially now. I'm also going to take a vegan cooking class soon to keep it fresh.

[Anuka]

Hi everyone.

Card-carrying meat eater here. If dance has taught me anything, it's that everyone's body is different. For some people going vegetarian or vegan is the healthier choice, for others it would deteriorate their health. A friend of mine went vegetarian for years for environmental reasons, and was constantly sick and hungry as a result. Other friends of mine are vegetarians and glowing with health.

A simple solution for people with an environmental conscience is to consume less meat. If I go to a restaurant and order steak, they slap down a huge slab of beef that would last me two or three days yet people seem to think that they need that much meat every day. A daily "serving" of meat is actually the size of a deck of cards (!) for most people.

The bottom line is if people are healthy and not trying to force everyone else to their way of thinking, it doesn't matter which side of the fence one is on.

[*Shira*]

I think the reason carnivores say that vegetarianism and veganism sound unhealthy is that most nutrition education we've had growing up has spoken in terms of a "balanced diet". I'm old enough to have been raised with the 5 food groups: meat, dairy, bread/cereal, fruits/vegetables, and I forget the fifth offhand.

Anyway, for people like me who were raised with the idea that meat and dairy were both major components of a balanced diet, it CAN sound unhealthy to hear that someone is not eating these things.

Of course, the old five basic food groups were a simplistic way of viewing nutrition, and nowadays they've been replaced with the food pyramid. But even the food pyramid has its problems.

Many carnivores don't realize that certain vegetables are rich in calcium, and many don't realize that legumes are rich in protein. So when they hear someone is a vegetarian, they don't realize that most vegetarians care about good nutrition and have educated themselves on which foods to eat to ensure they're getting all the nutrition they need.

If you feel magnanimous AND if the person seems receptive to learning something, you could educate them on how the nutrients that they're used to getting from dairy and meat are also available in vegetables, then go on to talk about soy, lentils, etc. Of course, if the situation isn't appropriate or you're just not in the mood to educate, it's not necessary to bother.

And of course, many carnivores have unhealthy eating habits of their own. McDonald's comes to mind....

Anyway, I agree with rakgirl's statement that we should respect people whose eating habits are different from our own. Courtesy is a virtue.

[kirsten]

Originally Posted by Egyptdancer

OK- this should Not be funny, but to me it is.
I just had this lecture Sunday again.
My eating habbits really seem to tick people off,
I am Always getting that lecture! :(

I went Vegetarian in 88?
Vegan in 89. . .no meat, milk, sea food, eggs, cheese, ice cream, ect
The problem is I wasn't supplementing correctly-
so I ended up in the hospital.

Recently I made a switch, and I now consider myself a 'recovering vegetarian'
I can again eat ice cream-
and I choke down milk, eggs, and cheese

But still no sea food or red meat.
I can sometimes eat chicken- but skinless, boneless, and cut up-
the slightest little thing wrong, and it sets me back and I can't eat it again for a long while.

My problem is I also have allergies: onions and carrots
I also DO Not like: mushrooms, green/red peppers, olives . . .many of the ingrediants in the 'regular' vegie foods.

Recently I went to a restaurant,
(I went w/ a friend who didn't tell the people making reservations about my food laws.) Without a problem they would have picked someplace else if they knew. . .but they had no idea.
So- the restaurant had *nothing* on the menu for me!
and I was so hungry too.
I asked about their vegetarian dish. . .onions, red & green peppers, carrots, & mushrooms. . .Nothing for me :(
So the waitress finally look at me and said. . .
"Well just tell me what you CAN have and we'll make something for you!"
I got a bowl of icky lettuce for dinner.

I do eat a balanced diet, take supplements, vitamins.
I work-out with weights 3 times a week to keep in shape.

I frequently come across people who make comments like-
oh your so skinny becasue you don't eat meat, you don't eat right.

No- I eat balanced,
I actually eat A LOT. . .MANY small meals so I have a high metabolism.
I do not eat fast food either.
I drink LOTS of water, I stopped drinking soda drinks in 1988 as well.

sigh-
So yeah, people can be argumentative, even mean about my eating habbits.
I don't push my habbits on anybody else.
so-
yeah, I just try to smile and say thank-you for the info.
Then I keep eating the way that works best for me.

Good Luck to you all!
~Zayna : )

Zanya,
I love ya for your commitment. I've been thinking about going vegetarian for a while but can't give up the fish or cheese. Sorry you went out and had an icky salad though, but I must say your eating habits are working for you girlie. You looked fabulous last time I saw you!!!!

Jade

[zot buffalo]

I've been a vegetarian for years and years (I do eat yogurt and the occasional ice cream) and I would guess that only my close friends know. Not that I'm hiding it, I just don't make any kind of deal out of it. It's such a part of my life that I don't think about it that much.

I've found over the years that there's almost always SOMETHING to eat. I am clearly not starving! I always have fruit or a stash of Lara bars (try the new chocolate ones!) to eat in an emergency.

I know some people who get sick when they eat meat, so I can understand being cautious eating out. But I'm not a veg because I have any particular physical sensitivities (more of an emotional decision for me, fellow creatures and all that), and if I'm at someone's house and all they've cooked is a stir-fry with chicken in it, I can eat that with no problems.

[koneko]

I'm a vegetarian too, been all my life. I always had the worst time at school, kids are really mean they used to try and sneak mean into my lunch if I got up from the table.
The funniest thing is when you go out to eat with someone who eats meat and they read the menu to you (i.e. well you can have this and this). People think once you stop eating meatyou lose you ability to read menus corectly.
I do dance with silk and wear leather dance shoes, but I try to avoid it in everyday mundane life.

[eshe]

I think when people ask 'how do you look so great?' they are usually looking for a quick answer. They don't want to hear 'Continual effort, hard-work, etc'

And I also think vegetarianism has become more than just a health choice for some people it's a lifestyle choice. And so sometimes I think it's a bit like bringing up your religion or sexual preference.

I was a vegetarian from about age 6-19. I didn't try chicken until I met my honey. I do eat chicken now maybe once a week but that's about it. If people ask, I usually say/said 'I'm a picky eater' and not 'I'm a vegetarian.'

It's a whole new adventure saying to people in Japan that I don't eat fish! Let me tell ya! We were on a cruise once that offered a basically meat buffet with one tub of rice (we were in Saipan where a lot of Japanese go for a quickie va-cay) and a Japanese guy about my age said to his grandmother 'Look grandmother, a real live vegetarian!!' They were very intrigued!! Not everyone is turned off.

I think there are just way too many guerilla vegetarians out there. I know of people who've pulled out polariods of tortured animals at restaurants. Or people who graphically describe the slaughter process. Honestly, you'll attract more bees with honey!!

[mish_mish]

I've been a vegetarian and I live in a 50% vegetarian household--my son and husband do not eat meat (they do eat dairy, cheese, eggs) and my daughter and I do eat meat.

For me, I like a lot of variety and found that I really missed the choices and the taste that meat provides--especially when eating out. My daughter seems to have inherited my eating habits, so she is always keen on trying anything new/different. She doesn't seem to enjoy any kind of beef at all, I think the texture is too much. However, she will devour shrimp or chicken. I also do not feel very well if I don't eat a little bit of meat during the week--I get headaches.

That being said, I detest guerilla eaters on both sides--the holier/healthier than thou vegetarians and the meat eaters who have to challenge even the most low-key vegetarians (the idiots who say, "What about killing broccoli? Isn't THAT wrong--blah blah blah?").

People are omnivores by nature, however we also have the ability to make conscious choices about what we eat and many people can successfully survive w/o animal products. It has gotten easier over the years--more products are available in mainstream stores. I am good with the choices people make as long as they don't act like jerks about it either way. I was at a local soup/salad bar chain and I heard a guy whining, "Why did you take me HERE? There's no meat here." There are also about 50 things to choose from, get over it and eat the good food available. It's not like eating a salad is going to kill him (they even had real bacon bits if he's that weirded out by salad, jeez...).

[Anuka]

Originally Posted by eshe

I think when people ask 'how do you look so great?' they are usually looking for a quick answer. They don't want to hear 'Continual effort, hard-work, etc'

That is so true! If something is worth doing, it's worth the effort. It seems like people just want a magic pill for every problem they have rather than changing their habits and lifestyle to improve things.