My Little Buns of Steel (Help!)

[Genisis]

Okie Dokie,
My work out regimen is insanely long and I need to trim it up a bit and add more punch to it. I started dancing with a weight belt (10lbs) but I can still go for 2 hours a day plus my normal shimmy time and not feel a darn thing. I know it's still a good exercise but I need something more challenging and hopefully dance related. I was thinking of buying a 20lb belt and putting 5lb weights on each ankle with 2lb weights on my wrists. If that doesn't make me feel it then I just have no idea what to do next. Does anybody have any suggestions on things I can do to make this tougher and keep it in the sphere of dance?

~*Genisis*~

[Lauren_]

I think using such a heavy belt and weights on the wrists and ankles could lead to an injury. When we lift weights, dumbbells, etc. we use specially designed movements to isolate certain muscles and protect the joints. Some movements become dangerous when bearing extra weight -- for instance, lifting the arms overhead with the arm externally rotated could damage your rotator cuff, you would never do that during a workout but it might happen during dance.

I think cross-training might be a better choice, replacing part of your rehearsal time with exercises specifically chosen to complement/improve your dance.

First, what's your goal? Cardio, for improved energy/stamina/health and calorie burning, or muscle development for strength/tone/power? Or a bit of both?

[antimony]

Originally Posted by Genisis

Okie Dokie,
I was thinking of buying a 20lb belt and putting 5lb weights on each ankle with 2lb weights on my wrists. If that doesn't make me feel it then I just have no idea what to do next. Does anybody have any suggestions on things I can do to make this tougher and keep it in the sphere of dance?

That is a giant recipe for injury right there. Put the weights away. And if you are using your 10lb weight belt for two hours a day, then you need to re-think that too.

It sounds like you feel like you are not getting enough of a cardio workout from your practice, which makes sense, since on the whole, bellydance is less effective for cardio than things like running or aerobics.

If you really want to work up a sweat while doing something bellydance related, I would say that you need to develop a deep love for saiidi Otherwise, it sounds like it's time to pick up some cross training.

[Genisis]

I'm doing strength and stamina training. I'm actually working up to 30lbs, thats my goal. I don't do cardio at all. I would really like to cut down the amount of time that I'm at it but I can't see what more that I can do and still keep dancing. The Saidi sounds like a good idea so I'll give that a shot. My greatest concern is for the cartilige in my knees. I have been extreeeeemly careful with how I move to keep the pressure off my knees and spine. I do also do weight training but in order to increase dance speed I have to actually dance with resistance. I need it to be challenging enough for my body but not go over the line. With what I'm doing now I don't feel a thing. I'll try Saidi for a couple days and report back.

Thanks for you Input,
~*Genisis*~

[Michelle75]

I would think that strenght training would hurt your spine and knees which is are areas you said you were trying to protect. Have you concidered swimming laps. That is probably one of the safest and best exercises for the human body. It great cardio and it builds arms and shoulder strength while toning our legs, thighs and butt.

*Edited* Sorry, just saw the part about keeping it related to dance. I skim and scan when reading alot of times. I MUST stop doing that. Bad habit.

[Lauren_]

I think dancing with a weight belt on is extremely dangerous for your knees. Saiidi, even without a hip belt, is questionable for bad knees, depending on the surface you're working on.

If you're looking for more cardio, for endurance, I'd do more traveling. Don't dance in one room, dance through the whole house, visit every room during a song. And keep your arms at or above heart level.

If you're looking for a workout for your muscles, I'd use workout activities.

I'm not sure I understand why you want to increase dance speed?

In my mind, I work out with crosstraining activities (yoga, weights, cardio) in order to build the stamina, strength and flexibility so my body doesn't get in the way of creating the dances I can imagine.

Dancing is not really meant to be a conditioning activity in itself (unless you're a sedentary person just beginning to do cardio, it's certainly better than couch-sitting and more fun than walking in place).

It's not safe to build your body by dancing. Build your body for dancing instead!

(I'm starting to lecture, thanks for letting me say my piece. I promise not to repeat myself again on this thread.)

FWIW, I'm an ACE certified fitness instructor, and a senior in a university kinesiology program. And a Yoga Alliance 200-hour RYT. There are other certified fitness individuals on the board, I hope they'll check in with their opinions.

[Genisis]

Hey I'll take advice from the fitness pros. Thats why I asked. I'll do my best to incorporate whatever ideas you guys come up with but if at all possible I need to at least keep the present weight added when I dance. What do you guys think of the weight vests they carry at sporting goods stores? Do you think it would help if I transferred the weight from my hips to my torso? Or from the hips to the ankles? (Reminder: I am not in this for Cardio.)

Also have you ever heard of the "Shovelglove" technique? If so what do the fitness pros think about that? This is the first womens list that I've been on where anyone has given me the "Nono" on the weights. Compared to some of the women that I've posted about this topic with I am really not doing a lot. Would it be too much to ask what the negative and positive impacts would be on a female body? And is this a "nono" for everybody or just a "nono" for people in fair to moderate condition?

I hope you don't think that I'm over here just ripping my body to shreds. I dance and stretch for hours every day but lately I'm just not feeling like I'm getting anything out of it. No muscle fatigue or joint pain or really any sensation that lets me know that I'm doing anything at all. Maybe that means that I'm doing it right? Or maybe I have reached the point where dance and weight training won't do it anymore. I have absolutely no idea where to go from here because I can't do serious cardio.

I eagerly await your reponses. (I still like the Saidi idea...)

~*Genisis*~

[*Shira*]

Originally Posted by Genisis

I dance and stretch for hours every day but lately I'm just not feeling like I'm getting anything out of it. No muscle fatigue or joint pain or really any sensation that lets me know that I'm doing anything at all. Maybe that means that I'm doing it right? Or maybe I have reached the point where dance and weight training won't do it anymore. I have absolutely no idea where to go from here because I can't do serious cardio.

Hi Genisis! I think the reason you're not feeling sensation feedback is that you've reached a plateau. Doing what you're doing maintains your existing level, but doesn't move you beyond. This is normal body behavior - if the only exercise that you do is consistently the same thing (ie, always weight lifting, always running on a treadmill, always belly dancing), then a plateau will occur. This is why people do cross-training - weight lifting one day, cardio the next, some sort of flexibility exercise like yoga the next. By shifting focus from one set of muscles to another, and from one type of exercise (strength, cardio, flexibility) to another, the body is kept guessing. And that allows improvements to keep happening.

I'll defer to others on the question of whether the weight belt is potentially harmful, but in order to address your question about your plateau, I'd urge you to alternate different exercise disciplines into your fitness regime.

[gwyncara]

Originally Posted by Genisis

I was thinking of buying a 20lb belt and putting 5lb weights on each ankle with 2lb weights on my wrists.

Good goddess woman!! ARE YOU INSANE????? I know you want to build strength and stamina, but I agree with Lauren and Antimony... put the weights down. You need to be doing other exercises, including cardio (low or no impact is best if you're worried about your joints). Your body is too used to doing the "same old thing". By changing the routine completely, you force your body to work in different ways and you develop different muscles. I'm not saying that you shouldn't dance and stretch, but you've got to have variety. (oh, BTW - no joint pain is a good thing!) Don't make me drive over to your house and throttle you...
Much love and hugs!

[Lauren_]

Joint pain = always bad.

Muscle fatigue, if you're actively trying to build muscle tissue, is normal. At some point, when you're reasonably happy with your body fat % and your strength, you're done building muscle tissue and only want to sustain it, so unless you're body building for competition it becomes unnecessary to work to the point of fatigue and it's OK to work at the 'plateau' level like Shira described.

But if your goal is to build muscle, dancing (even with a barbell or dumbbell!) isn't the safest or most efficient way to do that. Do that with safe, standard exercises that use free weights or on Nautilus-type equipment.

I think the weight belt is probably safe to wear during drills -- hip lifts, shimmies, etc -- if your body is strong and your technique is clean, knees are soft, pelvis level, etc. I wouldn't recommend wearing one to actually dance around in, though. It's too hard to maintain perfect posture, not torque the knees or tip them sideways, etc. while traveling around, improvising or doing choreo.

Regarding weights and the knees: Remember that overweight people nearly always have knee problems. Carrying extra weight is hard on the knees. Period. Doesn't matter whether you're carrying it around your middle or on your wrists or over your head. Ankle weights place a pretty unnatural workload on the knees as well. I'd say it's safe to use them for some exercises, where you're being careful with your alignment, etc. but again, I wouldn't noodle around dancing in them, it's just too unlikely that you'd be able to maintain good form.

So, if you've reached a certain level of fitness, dancing just isn't going to build muscle or lead you to muscle fatigue any more. Adding weights to your dancing isn't a safe (or very effective) way to build muscle at that point. I recommend using your weight training to build muscle, and your dance practice to build dance skills, musical interpretation, and technique.

[Genisis]

Hahaha just so you know...I am not trying to achieve joint pain. I meant that as an example to illustrate that good or bad I'm not feeling anything. I'm odd but I'm not crazy. ;-)
~*Genisis*~

[Lauren_]

Originally Posted by Genisis

Hahaha just so you know...I am not trying to achieve joint pain. I meant that as an example to illustrate that good or bad I'm not feeling anything. I'm odd but I'm not crazy. ;-)
~*Genisis*~

Good to know!

[kina]

Another fitness professional putting in my two cents. What you describe is a body that is accostumed to the demands that you routinely place on it. When that happens your only choice is to change the routine.

You can do this very simply, even by varying the repetitions, speed or intensity of the work that you are doing, even in dance. For example, if you are doing a 5 part routine, and you practice the same way every time, your body gets used to it. If you change the order, your body will respond because it's not accustomed to that routine.

That having been said, you alluded to not being able to do any other cardio. If you'd like, pm me and we can talk about specifics and what might be useful for your particular situation.


OK, STOP WEARING THE WEIGHTS WHEN YOU PRACTICE!!!!!

Yes, I'm yelling. I have knee issues, I'm firmly convinced that they were caused by wearing a weighted hip belt to practice. You are doing nothing to help your body and are wearing the cartilege in your joints out by asking them to absorb the additional weight. If you want to add resistance, do the routine in a swimming pool.

Not in costume.

:-)

[Lauren_]

Yay, Kina, I was hoping you'd come. (Kina is a lot more active in the field than I am -- I hold my cert only to teach BD & yoga)

I didn't know that about your knees, but it doesn't surprise me.

The routine in the swimming pool is brilliant. LOL@ not in a costume.

[Genisis]

Oooh great ideas guys! Thanks for the input. I'll try a couple different things and see if I can get "the burn" back. It was getting really weird not feeling any kind of body feedback no matter what I did.

Yours,
~*Genisis*~

[zumarrad]

Chiming in for the swimming pool routine. OMG that would be awesome! Except for the veil bits obviously.

[ssipes]

Originally Posted by Genisis

Hey I'll take advice from the fitness pros. Thats why I asked. I'll do my best to incorporate whatever ideas you guys come up with but if at all possible I need to at least keep the present weight added when I dance.

Genesis, I guess the question of the hour is "Why?" Why do you have to combine weights and dance movements?

If you want to gain strength, do proper strength-training. A 20 min routine of free weight exercises hitting major combinations of muscles (squats, bench press, lat pulldowns, rowing, etc) will be more efficient and much less prone to cause injury than weighted dance movements. See www.strumptuous.com for some really good advice.

If tennis players need to gain strength for their game, they don't go swinging a 50lb racket 100's of times -- what a recipe for disaster that would be. They go into a weight room and do a proper cross-training regimine for their sport. If baseball pitchers need more strength for their game, they don't run around the field with body weights, or throw big heavy lead balls, they go into the weight room and....you get the picture.

Strength training good.

Crazy shimmying with 30 lbs belts on your hips bad.

Sedonia

[Souzan]

What I don't understand is why you aren't doing cardio if what you are trying to do is improve endurance and dance speed.

Souzan

[tahiradancer]

Do Power Yoga 3 times a week. It will help with cardio (at least the way we do it here) flexibility and stamina. And even if you only do it in 30 min. sessions, it helps.

Rodney Yee has some great tapes if no one in your area teaches it. I think Max Storm does also, but I would have to double check.

{{{HUGS}}}

[sumayasaahir]

I like back in the day when the belly covers matched the bedlah (Suheir Zaki wore a lot of those in the 70's). Somehow I think the nude ones look like panty hose for the belly...and can seem grandma-ish.

http://www.reyhan.de/Start/Photogale...ant-byblos.htm