Help with perm!!!

Michelle75 · 12-28-2007, 11:13 AM

I have thick hair that lays just a skosh below my shoulders. It is VERY straight. My delima is I want to get a perm but I haven't had one since I was 12 and my hair never held them. I'm now reaching 33 and wonder if I should do it or not.
I DO NOT want a tight curl but a medium size loose ring. Do any of you know about rod sizes and stuff? Anyone have expierence with having perms and care to share?!?!

Michelle

Lauren_ · 12-28-2007, 11:58 AM

I've never had a good perm. I saw one once, so I believe they exist....

suzyq52 · 12-28-2007, 12:08 PM

I used to get perms all the time when my boys were young. And, I hated the way it looked for the first few weeks - always way too tight and made me look like I had stuck my finger in a light socket!!!! Ever since then, I've let my straight hair be straight and if I want curl, I use a curling iron. I know there are perms out there that will give you the body or the loose curl that you are looking for. Try booking time with a stylist that has a good recommendation from your friends and talk to her about it. The stylist is really the best individual to talk to you regarding your hair - I would never colour or perm my own. They are the specialists in this area and have taken extensive training to practice this trade.

Michelle75 · 12-28-2007, 12:27 PM

I would not attempt this myself. I'm to chicken. I just wanted a little info. from someone who is expierenced in this area. There are just so many conflicting stories I don't know what to do.

Bellydancefanatic · 12-28-2007, 02:40 PM

My hair is the opposite (because I'm mixed with African), so my perm straightens the hair. But my friends who want the opposite type perm, the one that curls and adds volume, have not had that much luck. I would suggest using huge curlers, volumnizing shampoo and conditioner, and some mousee. Or have you tried this already? Extensions never hurt either (human hair, though, not synthetic). That can help to add volume to your hair.

Azhia · 12-28-2007, 05:04 PM

Hello lovelies...
Michelle, what is the texture and condition of your hair? You mentioned thick and straight...tell me more: coarse, dry, oily? Do you get split ends a lot? When you say your hair never held them, what do you mean? You'd get the perm and then it would come out a day later or so? What do you do now to attempt to get curl?
There are 2 routes: perm and no perm...
1) PERM
Aveda has a gentle line of perm products that will not damage the hair as much. Any perming (for straightening or curling) will incur some type of damage, as the chemicals open the cuticle to allow the chemicals to go into the cortex and restructure the hair, often irreversibly).
You can opt for a large, straight rod. Convex rods will create a curl that is tighter at one end than the other. It sounds like you want a uniform sized curl.
You can also get a perm that imparts body and not necessarily a curl so that when you do curl it (heat, rods, whatever), it holds better. I believe these are called non-thio perms. Don't quote me. I don't remember the terminology. The important thing is the practical implication of getting a perm.
If you are prone to split ends, the perm will dry out the hair considerably so you'll have to use more product to protect and nourish/hydrate the hair.

2) NO PERM
If you go with no perm, you can choose to go curly or straight w/ the least amount of chemical damage. Sometimes it's nice to emphasize thick, straight hair, or if you feel like it, beautiful rich curls.
If you want your hair to hold curl, start by using a curl enhancing product before styling. If you want to stay more "natural" and the least amount of chemicals, stick with Aveda. They have this volumizing powder called "Potion" that lifts at the root and helps enhance curls because the hair is fuller and not lying flat, which weighs it down and drags out the curl. They also have Be Curly products for use before, during, and after styling. You can throw these products in your hair and if you know ahead of time, perhaps the morning of a performance, throw small sections into pin curls or rollers, making sure the curl ends right on top of the scalp, very close to the root for that lift (don't leave room for the curl to "flop"). The long-term type of curling, either wet or dry, is safest b/c you're not subjecting the hair to high heat and it will last longer. AFTER you take it out, you can separate the curls with the curl-enhancing product and then spray the shit out of it (excuse my French). Keep bunching the curls with your hands so that they don't drop/flop/drag down.
If you decide to use a heat implement, Big Sexy or Bumble and Bumble (highly recommended product line!) or Fudge (another GOOD one!) has products to spray or swipe through the hair before heat treatment to hold/enhance the curl. Also before using a heat implement, spray a protectant on it, like Aveda's Damage Control.
Hope this helps! :0)

Michelle75 · 12-28-2007, 06:30 PM

Hi Azhiadancer,

Thanks for you great reply.

I suppose I would say that my hair is soft and normal. It's not coarse or oily. If I don't wash it every two days it gets oily but I think that is probably normal. Isn't it? I do get split ends though. I DON'T use curling irons, straighting irons or anything else like that EXCEPT maybe two or three times a year.

I do use Aveda products already. I keep my hair colored (I color my hair about 5 times a year) so I use the Black Malva shampoo and condtioner. I also have the Aveda "Be Curly" curl enhancing lotion. I don't like it b/c it makes my hair oily even using just a small amount.

When I was small my mom had me wear a perm in third or fourth grade and it was gone in about 2 months. I had a tight spiral perm for about two weeks and than it started straighting and straighting until I had a very ugly wave at the bottom of my hair. BLAHHHHHH!!!!!!

zumarrad · 12-28-2007, 06:43 PM

Perm technology has changed a lot, I believe, in recent years, but I can tell you this: it sounds like your hair is likely quite resistant, and that means you need a smaller rod - that means a tighter curl - for a perm to work. It will probably then hold a set better - ie, you put your wet curly-permed hair on large rollers to make the curl larger and looser, every time you wash. Then you have to wait for it to grow out.

To be honest I would never recommend a perm to anybody these days unless they want really curly hair and their hair is straight. They're a pain in the arse to do and to get, and all most people want is big loose waves anyway and a perm alone will NOT give you those.

You want lasting waves, do a traditional set with wet hair and setting lotion and make sure it's bone dry before you take the rollers out. You want pretty waves just for one evening, use tongs or hot rollers. If your hair is layered it will probably wave up better, since the top layers will not be so heavy.

Azhia · 12-28-2007, 07:36 PM

Michelle,

Yes, it is normal for hair of your texture to become oily after several days of not washing.

Stick with setting the hair, as suggested by Zumarrad, as opposed to heat (that's good you normally stay away from it, keeps it healthy) and I also agree with her suggestion to maintain layers, or at least some good texturizing, to keep the weight to a minimum without sacrificing length.

Curl does not stay in my hair either. What I used to do (when I had hair) was keep textured long layers; a few hours before a show I'd wrap my hair in at least 2 tight buns with some product (less is more, actually) and then let it out before performing. I could do this either dry or wet and then let it dry. Try the Bumble and Bumble. They have wonderful curl enhancing products that will not make your hair oily, or cut down on product. Not that much is needed for desired effect.
Regular trims is the only solution for split ends. There is no product that will take them away, unfortunately! And when you do get it cut, make sure the stylist does not do any "slicing" or "channeling", basically anything where the blade (shears or razor) "slides" along the shaft...split end city for sure! I am very prone to split ends and once I knew to tell my stylist to not do any kind of sliding, I have had no split ends and can allow my hair to grow without having to trim it as often.
Let us know how it works!

CurlyBellyGirl · 12-28-2007, 07:56 PM

I have a friend who gets a curly perm and it looks amazing, but she wears her hair shorter in a chin length bob, so that may be why it holds the curl better. I would never suggest attempting any chemical treatment at home yourself.

Good luck!

sabrinabellydancer · 12-28-2007, 09:51 PM

why?!?!?!?!?

curly hair is such a pain in the a$$. why would you want to add all that time getting ready everyday to your day to tame your hair? have you met the beast called frizz?

quick story: i was born with straight hair. loved it. got stupid in the 80's and got a series of terrible damaging perms that took years to grow out.
then my hair decided to become very curly naturally. so i had relaxers until last year. still growing it out.
no matter how high end the salon or product, the chemical processes damage d my hair to the point where it wasn't worth it.

moral: make sure you really want it or you will spend years growing it out.

i would trade you my mess of curls for your straight shiny hair in a heart beat!

Azhia · 12-28-2007, 10:03 PM

Sabrina,
Have you heard of a book called "Curly Girl"? Highly recommend for anybody who has curly hair. A book totally dedicated to women with curly hair and how to live/love/take care/be proud of it!

Azhia · 12-28-2007, 10:04 PM

Michelle,
From the looks of your tiny avatar pic, you appear to have a gorgeous head of hair already! :0)

gypsydanse · 12-28-2007, 10:24 PM

My hair is naturally wavy and frizzy. I use a large barrel curling iron on it every other day when I wash it to straighten it with a slight wave. I don't blow it dry, I let it air dry, but the slightest bit of moisture in the air makes it frizz.

sabrinabellydancer · 12-29-2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhiadancer

Sabrina,
Have you heard of a book called "Curly Girl"? Highly recommend for anybody who has curly hair. A book totally dedicated to women with curly hair and how to live/love/take care/be proud of it!

yeah, i actually follow that protocol. it does help however, i still want to just beat it into submission with the book

i miss my easy straight frizz free hair

and still vote michelle should stay away from chemical processes

Michelle75 · 12-29-2007, 07:49 AM

OK thanks for talking me out of this. It's something that has been on the back of my mind for awhile and now that I've thought it through I am happy to NOT get a perm. I'll just use rags. My grandmother used them on me when I was a small girl. I have pictures of her setting my hair with rag strips. It's very time consuming but it works very nicely.

Azhia · 12-29-2007, 02:55 PM

Girl, rag sets ROCK! They last, too. And yes, it is better to stay away from the chemicals. You'll have more versatility this way and maintain your gorgeous mane. ;0)

zumarrad · 12-29-2007, 05:58 PM

Rags are supposed to be great, though I never tried them myself. They're much more comfy than rollers so you can sleep with your hair in rags quite comfortably, and they can kind of look cool while they're in, too.

Ironically, my mother used to have her hair set in rags as a child, and then as a teen and young adult had her hair short and set or else permed most of the time; only in recent years (in her 60s) has she left it and it turns out that her hair actually has tons of natural movement and can wave up beautifully if she scrunch-dries it.

anala · 12-29-2007, 07:36 PM

I have done the nasty deed 2 times..once in my 30's...hated it...once in my 50's...(one year ago, because, oh yeah...the products are better - my stylist says)....hated it... ended up in short haircuts that make this almost 6 footer feel like a longshoreman...dont do it!!!!!! Maybe I'll try it again when I'm 70...maybe I'll forget all this by then.