Is this the source of my back problems??

danielabellydance · 01-03-2008, 10:59 PM

DISCLAIMER: I'm not knocking Amira Mor at all by asking this question, I really want to make sure I know what is correct and what is not....

I just came across this video on YouTube and it struck me that the way Amira teaches a hip circle in this video is pretty much exactly how I say NOT to do it.

Amira was my first teacher and I studied with her for over two years...this is how I learned to bellydance. And my lower back has been seriously injured ever since (I had no idea I was supposed to tuck my butt under and keep my lower abs engaged for "good posture" until I found another teacher).

So, am I crazy or is the way she teaches a hip circle seriously not good for your back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIIVFhHVdjw

zumarrad · 01-03-2008, 11:22 PM

It does look rather horrifying, but that's pretty much what I would now call an African circle, or ummi with a lot of back, as opposed to the flat horizontal circle we teach as standard.

You could have hurt your lower back doing that, yeah.

khalilaNZ · 01-03-2008, 11:23 PM

I'd say.
Ouch - I just tried it. A reminder that I was shown the same way a thousand years ago. It's almost a big ommi with no ab support at all. We live and learn...

danielabellydance · 01-03-2008, 11:40 PM

Forget what I just typed....I see that Zumarrad said the same thing!

Azhia · 01-03-2008, 11:49 PM

I had same issues with lower back pain. I had bilateral spyndomyelosthesis or some such thing (a/k/a "Gymnast's Back"). Any time the back is in extension you compress that tissue b/t your vertebrae in your (chiropractors/PT's help me out here!) L[fill in the blank with appropriate number].

Engaging lower abdominals helped me tremendously (+ SS Format). I'd taken all kinds of dance forms, including West African and flamenco. Nothing had damaged my back more than inappropriately executed Oriental dance!

Now I don't experience lower back pain at all due to developed strength in the lower abs. I could even study aerial arts with all kinds of back extension type contortions on the corde lisse or trapeze and I wouldn't be in pain.

I couldn't do that move comfortably either. Hurt me just looking at it.

meissoun · 01-03-2008, 11:54 PM

It's one of several ways to do hip circles. We call them hula circles.
They are indeed part of the Oriental dance vocabulary, but one should also be able to do "flat" hip circles.
The important thing with this circle is to always really pull your pelvis up in the front, to give a mini-stretch to your back muscles.

MEISSOUN

Lauren_ · 01-04-2008, 12:15 AM

That is a HUGE umi, pushed waaay to the back. I've never seen an actual Middle Eastern dancer do that movement, so I wouldn't call it part of the Middle Eastern dance vocabulary. Yes, it looks unsafe to me. Very.

mish_mish · 01-04-2008, 12:15 AM

I know I tease you about the video you were in Daniela, but seriously, I think you're right. When I bought her video from Ross, I was thinking that her shimmy style was really not safe for the amount she held that position (booty out).

kashmir · 01-04-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauren_

That is a HUGE umi, pushed waaay to the back. I've never seen an actual Middle Eastern dancer do that movement, so I wouldn't call it part of the Middle Eastern dance vocabulary. Yes, it looks unsafe to me. Very.

Totally agree. Not only over extended in the lower back but jerky as well. This is really likely to damage lumbar discs and ligaments.

And like Lauren I've never seen any dance from over there use this movement (I've seen small fast African circles - but not this big cruncher). However, this was the technique we were taught in jazz dance - along with those over extended lumbar arches with a drop over the toes (hurts just to think about it)

badriya_al_ahmar · 01-04-2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauren_

That is a HUGE umi, pushed waaay to the back. I've never seen an actual Middle Eastern dancer do that movement, so I wouldn't call it part of the Middle Eastern dance vocabulary. Yes, it looks unsafe to me. Very.

It seems almost like an externally driven umi, which, yes, is a contradiction in terms. It looks like the movement is being driven by the legs and spine rather than the abs, and I think that could hurt the lower back quite a bit. Maybe the instructor is providing internal ab support, but that isn't the way she is explaining it here.

laura 2 · 01-04-2008, 03:56 PM

That's the booty-booty-booty ommi that I show students as an
example of the wrong way (as I teach) to do the move. In the clip, she's doing more of an active push to the back, rather than a simple release to neutral when doing the back part of the circle.

vilia · 01-04-2008, 05:19 PM

I was never taught to do hip circles or ummis this way. I was taught a shimmy pushing the pelvis forward and back rapidly, but it's so much smaller as to not even really hyper-extend the lower back. This looks more like an untrained person's idea of how to do a hip circle, like something a member of the g.p. would do to emulate their idea of belly dance. Not to dis Amira ... she looks like she does decent spins. I've not seen her dance before.

danielabellydance · 01-04-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laura 2

That's the booty-booty-booty ommi that I show students as an
example of the wrong way (as I teach) to do the move. In the clip, she's doing more of an active push to the back, rather than a simple release to neutral when doing the back part of the circle.

Yes, I use this type of move as an example of what not to do as well.

Amaryllis · 01-04-2008, 06:14 PM

Ouch! I would be in serious pain for days if I attempted to do a hip circle like that!

dunyah · 01-04-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kashmir

Totally agree. Not only over extended in the lower back but jerky as well. This is really likely to damage lumbar discs and ligaments.

And like Lauren I've never seen any dance from over there use this movement (I've seen small fast African circles - but not this big cruncher). However, this was the technique we were taught in jazz dance - along with those over extended lumbar arches with a drop over the toes (hurts just to think about it)

Amira Mor's style is described as a fusion of jazz and belly dance on the DVD of hers that I have. These don't look like belly dance hip circles to me, or omis.

I just don't like her style or her vibe. And I don't like the scene with all the students randomly dancing in poorly-fitting costumes. I guess it's supposed to look like fun so the viewer will want to take her classes or something.

Melinda77 · 01-04-2008, 10:15 PM

oh wow.....I just watched it. I've never done a hip circle like that before.

leylalanty · 01-06-2008, 05:47 PM

OUCH!!! My back hurts just watching that!! I would not be at all surprised that doing hip circles that way for a while will result in back injury. When I'm teaching hip circles, I specifiy that the back should never be arched at any point around the circle and that, as Meissoun said, "...always really pull your pelvis up in the front, to give a mini-stretch to your back muscles."