Warning-heated debate: Have costumes become too risque?

[danidance]

By the way, on the costumes of the Russian dancers - I can live with them but I hate the "Gentlemen's Club" reclined open lips/mouth photos. Together the combination is pure suggestion and I don't mean dance.

[je_ateek]

I don't think I was "jumping hastily," seeing as how she did clarify it after I posted. It was vague, so now it's more clear. That's really all I wanted.
I'm neither a "housewife" nor am I a "professional".

[danidance]

It wasn't personal as much as a general note - myself included.

Originally Posted by je_ateek

I don't think I was "jumping hastily," seeing as how she did clarify it after I posted. It was vague, so now it's more clear. That's really all I wanted.
I'm neither a "housewife" nor am I a "professional".

[ozma]

Originally Posted by danidance

Don't jump all over that statement to hastily because I think it's fairly accurate, though the term "housewives" in quotes would be more accurate, since the idea is really the hobbyist and non-professional.

I had a chat with Princess Farhana last year about the fact that it was the interested American housewives who kept BD alive in the states through various downturns. So it's not necessarily a pejorative idea or statement...the "housewife" thing.

I don't think she was jumping all over it. Before Laziza edited her comment it was hard to know what she meant. I didn't understand it either.

Before editing it simply read "some people say that bellydancing is for everybody and all kinds of figures. but it is a dance for housekeepers that do it just for fun."

Instead of " some people say that bellydancing is for everybody and all kinds of figures. but in that way it becomes a dance for housekeepers that do it just for fun. they can dance in pijamas or risque costumes as long as nobody can see them.'"

The first paragraph was different as well, one short sentence. After editing and adding to it it now makes more sense.

[Laziza]

Originally Posted by danidance

By the way, on the costumes of the Russian dancers - I can live with them but I hate the "Gentlemen's Club" reclined open lips/mouth photos. Together the combination is pure suggestion and I don't mean dance.

I would say that that open lips thing is more likely Marina's personal thing but not all the Russian dancers'. The same as not all the dancers from Russia dance in Marina's style costumes. Usually they have something traditional from Zaki sisters or Yasser or something like that.
The costumes are good and pretty but I would say more likely the same. And that makes Marina's outfits look even more exotic and unique. I posted these pics here as an example of extremely sexy and opened costumes just to follow the topic. And I have already mentioned that I would not accept her style costumes for myself because of different dance and fashion style.

[Sashy]

As somebody else said,i`m not a housewife nor professional,but since i`m over the obviously wholesome beautiful years ,i would make very sure not to take bdance classes with Laziza,if she`s a teacher . No need to upset her .

[danidance]

I meant the Russian dancer pictures you posted - not all Russian dancers. Bad phrasing on my part.

Originally Posted by Laziza

I would say that that open lips thing is more likely Marina's personal thing but not all the Russian dancers'. The same as not all the dancers from Russia dance in Marina's style costumes. Usually they have something traditional from Zaki sisters or Yasser or something like that.
The costumes are good and pretty but I would say more likely the same. And that makes Marina's outfits look even more exotic and unique. I posted these pics here as an example of extremely sexy and opened costumes just to follow the topic. And I have already mentioned that I would not accept her style costumes for myself because of different dance and fashion style.

[Laziza]

I am really sorry if my opinion hurt somebody's feeling but it is my opinion and I can not change it.
I grew up in a ballet family with all its dance strictness and limitation. I know how dancers loose their job because of 10 pounds or retire at 38.
For me being good - looking and in good shape is one of the biggest part of being professional dancer.

[danidance]

Whether or not you hurt feelings - it's true. Professional dancers do have that commitment, it's part of their job. (Granted various dances require various things).


"For me being good - looking and in good shape is one of the biggest part of being professional dancer."

Originally Posted by Laziza

I am really sorry if my opinion hurt somebody's feeling but it is my opinion and I can not change it.
I grew up in a ballet family with all its dance strictness and limitation. I know how dancers loose their job because of 10 pounds or retire at 38.
For me being good - looking and in good shape is one of the biggest part of being professional dancer.

[kahaz]

Sorry to be the language police here, but we need (again!) to define terms. And then I think I agree with everyone.

There is a huge difference in being a hobbyist, a professional dancer that makes her living as an entertainer, a semi-professional that works part-time as a teacher, a primarily hafli dancer, a professional internationally known workshop instructor and probably a few other categories.

Yes, I'm 49 and fat. I can change the latter, but not the former. Am I a professional belly dancer (although I prefer the term "Middle Eastern Dancer")? DAMN STRAIGHT! I study, go to and sponsor workshops, take private lessons, check the internet for info, go to shows, choreograph, teach classes, perform where I can and dedicate a large part of my life for the last 26 years to my art.

Can I make it as a professional cabaret performer? NOPE! Too old and fat.

I just had Hadia here this weekend. She's a few years older than me, but has the body of a much younger, toned woman. She's what I expect in a renowned instructor. Would she be as popular if she gained a lot of weight? Probably not.

Unfair? Maybe, maybe not.

Not everyone is cut out to do all types of dancing that's possible. How many women that take a jazz class really expect to make a living by dancing publicly? Not too many, I wouldn't think.

On the other hand, do they have haflis, workshops, local shows, etc. to show off their sparklys?

There's room for all of us. Whatever age, shape, gender, size. But, we're not all going to be able to do the same things.

Kitty

[Sashy]

<On the other hand, do they have haflis, workshops, local shows, etc. to show off their sparklys?>

Sure...and not exactly "at home on their living rooms where nobody can see them....."


.....and i`m not a housewife nor housekeeper,but a career woman.

[Laziza]

Kahaz and Shashy,

There is no need to take my words as an offence. I have already said, it is MY opinion, based on my background and experience.

There is a room for all of us. But as my mother says the STAGE has its own limitations and requirements. Ballet dancers are beautiful and no doubt slim even when they are 45. But there is no 45 years old Juliet or Odette. The stage and by the way the audience would never accept that.
But why do they accept that in the oriental dance(Middle Eastern dance, whatever, I also dance Central Asian -Silk Road dances, so lets call it oriental dance now)? If the costumes are so open and even too risque? Maybe they accept that because they are ready to see fat and not well-shaped bodies of the BELLY-dance? The dance that it seems has a tend to become a dance style with no stage and aesthetic limitations. The dance that does not seems for clients to be even a professional dance at all and they can not understand why they need to pay 150 dollars for 15 minutes of fat-shaking.

I do not say that I am skinny like a model and I am the best example. I am not.

I do not know about the diffinitions and terms you use here to describe the differences in the dance world and thank you, Kahaz, for the explanation.
But I know that dividing:
I. dance business.
1. the stage dancers - professional dancers, that have the education, age, shape and abilities to make a good show. I do not call them professionals just because they make income from dancing business. I call them professionals because the stage accepts them.
2. teachers - former or current dancers, that have enough experience and talant to teach.
3. producers, sponsors or whatever you call them. people that organize and produce shows, festivals, haflas. They might be dancers, former dancers, teachers, but the fact that they work with these events doesn't make the stage dancers.
II. dance hobby

And again. I do not want to hurt anybody's feelings. If I did, I am sorry.


I'll keep posting pictures and will not offtop here. It is already offtopic and just because I dare to say my thoughts here.

[Laziza]

Again Ninadance's costumes .





That one is almost Dina's style.



not risque but really beautiful....

[Laziza]

and realy risque and even questionable costumes....

Nile Group April 2007

[kahaz]

I was going to respond in a different vein than this, but reading over the last two posts I give up. This has gone way off topic and I don't want to be involved in this one.

No, I just changed my mind, again. BUT-BACK TO TOPIC! THE COSTUMES!

Tacky. I don't care that Dina is beautiful, and a fabulous dancer. Those costumes are horrendous. If anyone but Dina was wearing them, they'd be on a UBDC thread.

Yuck!

Kitty

[Laziza]

It is not Dina. I don't remember her name but not Dina.


Fatima


Hanadi





Asmahan
just an amazing costume





Suzy (?)



that costume looks like Orit's one.

[danidance]

Those April 2007 costumes are horrid and well, those photos are extremely unflattering! yikes.

I like the second to last black cossie that you posted (the one w/cane)

[Sashy]

All those costumes from the Ninadance Except the animal print ones and lovely.The Nile Group 2007 are sleaze no matter who wears them,good figure or not.
The cane one could be saved.

[zumarrad]

The Nile Group ones are, indeed, uniformly icky.

I can't help but wonder: everything we hear about the climate in Egypt these days suggests repression, right? Do you think maybe the entertainers who can get away with it (perhaps via great bribes?) are getting more and more transgressive with their costuming, just to push buttons? Often under pressure people will find new ways to rebel.


Only a few months ago we had Caroline Evanoff here and she told us of the pages and pages of rules she has to conform to regarding her costumes (which include random things like, you shouldn't be able to see her legs when she's standing still). So obviously the letter of the law requires coverage.

[mehndidancer]

Originally Posted by ozma

My impression is that America has a lovely little niche of bellydancers who are part of the sci-fi convention circuit. There's probably a time for the quadra-mam.

I did on occasion dance at sci-fi conventions, and there are more bellydancers than you think. Hey I use sci-fi soundtracks on occasion. Not in full bedlah but I've done in it full Klingon regalia. hey if someone in the hotel bar is playing live drum I can't help but get up and dance.

Alrana