how to "take" meaness and personal attacks on bhuz.

[zamora]

first, please let me say that i would never assume i knew someone ..really knew them, from bhuz.if i felt someone was odd, or out of line, i would do as i do in life, or in person.find out what is in a person ..what made them say what they did.something from their past? (i do this with students, to see what might be blocking part of their dance experiance ).
i have never concidered myself better than anyone, and i guess i am a sucker for the golden rule as some call karma.
with all that said.what does one do, when attacked on bhuz?
i certainly would look at a buzzers personal page and not assume i know anything about them untill i had informed myse;lf..we really do not know anyone till a face to face happenes.
i guess the first time this happpened was the guy with the "best bd dvd ever".i was accused of being "jealous"..."oh, i see i guess you dont have any dvd's!" i was embarrassed for this poster, i have 14 dvd's out to date.
yesterday i was attacked again.it was brought up, and seconded that i had never been in anything professional, "a professional project".i tried to let it go, but it kept me awake, such meaness !.
sorry if my responce to 1..one..dancers respect was "strange". i was stunned and shocked that someone, anyone was being nice, or even knew i was alive.
i kept it light with my best southpark eric cartman "voice".
you know ladies ? you can not be mean to someone for years on this bpoard, and then be suprised when they react .
i personally would like to thank the one dancer who refered to me as "the veil queen".bright blessings on you! thank you for being nice.seems hard for some here.it reminds me of the high and mighty group in highschool that kept me in their nasty banter because my clothing did not come from the "right" store. yes, i am old school.and i do know alot ...but we all have more to learn. the first lesson should be in how to be nice, accepting, and inclusive.
i was treated better on a tribal thread when i asked a question about their zill!..
z

[caasious]

I know you're alive!
Either that or I'm imagining the dvd sitting on my shelf...

[SuzanneAzhaar]

First, I am sorry you felt assailed. We all come from different walks of life experiences and what is valued & deemed important by one might be completely invalidated by another.

How to take meaness and personal attacks on Bhuz~ With a big ol' salt lick.

Please understand there is such a infinite range of opinions of what is correct or no about this dance; it's like a bunch of ducks in a quacking pond. Stand there and listen long enough you might learn something or you might think they're just quackers.

[Halima-Dances]

As I watch bhuzzards reveal bits and pieces of themselves and their lives, sometimes I think to myself "wow, *that's* why so-and-so is such a bitchy, mean old trout". It's impossible to really know people in this two-dimensional venue, not that it excuses anyone's asshattery. I wouldn't take it personally, I'd chalk it up to lack of knowledge, mostly. There is a quote about never attributing to malice what you can attribute to ignorance, and I've found it to be true most of the time. Your body of work speaks for itself.

[raqsana]

Corey – I know what you mean. One of my students was recently attacked by someone here on bhuz for something beyond her control. because I knew the other side of the story, I was deeply hurt, to the point that it kept me up a few nights ago.

One thing I realized when I went back over the person’s posts the next day is that most people on here see it for what it really is. This person way over reacted to something and then responded in a classless manner. Her post came across as thoughtless and ignorant, with every other word being “****” and “crap.” She looked like a totally idiot.

It took everything in me not to respond to this person, as I tend to have a strong personality myself (and I hate bullies). Thank god I was able to be the bigger person and let it go. I’ve made a decision to ignore the thread from here on out, which is my advice for you in the future. There will always be these types of people, I find it best to ignore them when possible and work around them.

[Azhia]

Definitely not take it personally, as hurtful as it may make you feel. From your posts I get the sense that you really do know what you're talking about.

Also it is very difficult to intuit inflection and tone online. People bring their own baggage and perceptions to the table and may try to glean everything they think they know about you from 1 or 2 posts that perhaps hit a nerve of some sort.

And it goes both ways. I sometimes find myself getting irritated or feeling insulted by what someone posts but that's what I'm bringing to the table. They could be stating it in a matter-of-fact way, having a bad day, or are just plain bitchy. But I wouldn't attribute how I perceive their post as a total reflection of their personality.

I think it just takes a little bit of time spent on these forums to learn how people write/express their opinions; their writing styles; if they come across warm and fuzzy, terse and opinionated, and everything in between.

I think you have a no-nonsense way of expressing yourself. Some people feel comfortable with that, others not so much.

At the end of the day, respect and integrity should rule.

[BreaMorgiane]

Cory, you are an incredible teacher and a real sweetheart. Learning from you is an experience I will always treasure, and I consider you my mentor. I wish I had more time to spend with you as a student! I highly recommend Cory; she and her dancers make you feel very welcome.

I think part of it is that some of us can feel every sting when we perceive people being rude to us online. I think also that you never know the motives behind what people are saying; what to them may be an offhand remark can cut the recipient to the quick. I know I've read comments here that have stung me. Eventually that painful feeling goes away and we can come back stronger for it.

And really, Cory? You're a living legend of this dance. And believe me, I am certainly interested in what you have to teach.

[indigostars]

I wouldn't take it personally. I know that's really difficult, especially since these people are your peers, but people are crazy complicated. Sometimes they don't think when they type and write nasty stuff that wasn't how it was intended. Sometimes, people are going through bad stuff and take it out on others. Some people are just rotten.

I think probably the quote in Aradia's signature is probably the best way to handle stuff. It's something about the way others treat you affect them, not you.

[Lauren_]

I just read the thread in question. I may have somehow missed a post where someone said you hadn't been involved in any professional projects? If so I would defend you - of course you have. You're a lovely, strong professional dancer as well and I would stand up for you if anyone said you weren't.

I only saw a post where someone said they thought your response to being nominated for this particular professional project was strange. Since your response to being nominated was to complain tbat you hadn't been nominated before then -- and that you wanted to say 'screw you' to us all -- you have to admit that's not a typical response. I can kind of see why the poster said it was 'strange.'

Social rules call for a nominated person to say 'thank you' and, maybe, pretend that they feel they don't deserve such an honor. It *is* unusual to curse at people for not nominating you previously.

[ozma]

I read the thread and I don't think it was implied that you hadn't done anything professional...but that your response to being nominated for this specific professional project was strange (Lauren above explains why it seemed strange and I agree).

I personally would have assumed that it is because you already have 14 DVD's out there already that you haven't been nominated earlier, not because Bhuz is out to slight you. This project seems to be about spotlighting lesser-known dancers who people feel are deserving of a higher level of public exposure. While you may be deserving of even more exposure, you are certainly not an unknown/ lesser known/low profile dancer.

[Fotia]

What's nice about Bhuz is that if I feel slighted, I can go on to another thread. But not being face-to-face with people puts me at a disadvantage because they may mean it one way and it comes off another. God knows I've been guilty of that too.

[Aradia]

Originally Posted by indigostars

I wouldn't take it personally. I know that's really difficult, especially since these people are your peers, but people are crazy complicated. Sometimes they don't think when they type and write nasty stuff that wasn't how it was intended. Sometimes, people are going through bad stuff and take it out on others. Some people are just rotten.

I think probably the quote in Aradia's signature is probably the best way to handle stuff. It's something about the way others treat you affect them, not you.

How you treat me will not change who I am.......but it will change who you are

[Sariah]

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I only saw a post where someone said they thought your response to being nominated for this particular professional project was strange. Since your response to being nominated was to complain tbat you hadn't been nominated before then -- and that you wanted to say 'screw you' to us all -- you have to admit that's not a typical response. I can kind of see why the poster said it was 'strange.'

My thoughts exactly.

[zumarrad]

Cory, I've never once seen anyone have a go at you on Bhuz - quite the opposite. I, too, didn't see the post as saying you "hadn't" done anything professional. Everyone on Bhuz knows you have produced numerous DVDs! And even if they had not, your YouTube clips don't lie - it is obvious you dance in the traditional way extremely well.

[zamora]

wow, ok.so what is going on in ones life sometimes clouds how they see things.i guess i felt they were as you put it,being "snarky"....that my 14 dvd,s were not professional .ok, i get it now.
and i am proud of myself for asking for help on this.i might have let it eat me alive. guess we all need to feel some sorta love sometime!
tjhank you all so much!

[t alexandria]

"I only saw a post where someone said they thought your response to being nominated for this particular professional project was strange. Since your response to being nominated was to complain tbat you hadn't been nominated before then -- and that you wanted to say 'screw you' to us all -- you have to admit that's not a typical response. I can kind of see why the poster said it was 'strange."

I totally agree with this...unless there was a different incident on the board that I missed (in that case, just ignore the mean person or request their removal if they are super offensive). if not, the abovementioned incident *did* seem strange to me...actually, your statement could have been translated two ways: strange because most people would feel flattered after seeing a nomination, or somewhat condescending-as if, you were saying "I deserve more nominations".

again, not sure if its this incident that you are referring to, but if it is--I think you've actually seen the opposite of meanness because your statement seemed to illicit the response of many bhuzzers who enjoy your dancing coming out and saying that they would like to nominate you.

I usually just lurk on bhuz. Although I've seen some very hot debates, I rarely witness downright "meanness" on bhuz. Infact, largely from what I've seen on bhuz, I'm very proud to be part of this dance community. We are quite an intelligent, witty & socially conscious lot.

[zamora]

I personally would have assumed that it is because you already have 14 DVD's out there already that you haven't been nominated earlier, not because Bhuz is out to slight you. This project seems to be about spotlighting lesser-known dancers who people feel are deserving of a higher level of public exposure. While you may be deserving of even more exposure, you are certainly not an unknown/ lesser known/low profile dancer.
*****************************
ah, i am stunned on this one! honored and stunned, because i sit here as an unknown, reading ad's, reviews,praise,workshops,IMED... and the like with the same names over and over and over.i have never thought of myself as you just described, not at all.
it seems to me that FOR DANCERS BY DANCERS means dancers pick who they would like to see.who inspires them, ah her, the dancer watching another dancer.sorta like" a mans man"....they pick who IS the dance!
i never got the impression i was "known".
on another note, some of your posts reminded me of another tip of this iceberg. that even if we do not agree with another on the boards "way of life", we can respect their knowledge and not diss them when they respond to your post out of sincere joy of sharing,and wanting to help.
just because one lives another lifestyle , does not mean they do not care or do not know anything.

[ruta21030]

i think in dealing with 'meanness and attacks' on bhuz is simply to sit back, breath, and then re-read the offending post.....posters above are right about not noting tone or inflection, and often react emotionally and then respond based off the emotional reaction

this is normal, and understandable, but i've found that if we give a couple of moments to walk away, calm down, then re-read before responding, you sometimes find a calmer, less painful reaction and appropriate response...many people who post, don't mean anything bad by a post, they just may not realize how it can be interpreted, which is why i, personally, am pretty careful when i write online....

however, there ARE people that 'snark' and bite, and upon responding, if we do so rationally and calmly, the snarkers and biters only look stupid and petty...

zamora, you're well respected in this community :D, and generous with your knowledge and opinions, even if the poster WAS malicious(i haven't seen it, so can't form and opinion), nothing will change people's opinions of you as a wonderful, valued member of the dance, and bhuz community

[Lauren_]

Originally Posted by zamora

wow, ok.so what is going on in ones life sometimes clouds how they see things.i guess i felt they were as you put it,being "snarky"....that my 14 dvd,s were not professional .ok, i get it now.
and i am proud of myself for asking for help on this.i might have let it eat me alive. guess we all need to feel some sorta love sometime!
tjhank you all so much!

Zamora, this is such a great response!

[zorba]

Originally Posted by zamora

i never got the impression i was "known".

I've always been of the opinion that "Cory Zamora" is pretty well known! And I make no bones about it - I like and admire Cory. Lana and I were discussing her upcoming workshop in Santa Cruz just this morning, and Siwa and my troupe mates were having similar conversations last week.

On-line communications are an artform of themselves that must be learned. What works in person or even on the phone doesn't necessarily work on-line - and we ALL have had to straighten out mis-understandings when someone took something we "said" on-line the wrong way. Cory's like anyone else - she's had to learn this stuff too! She's very well-spoken in person or on her videos - and the fact that she started this thread tells me that she's learning the pitfalls of on-line communication and is asking intelligent questions - she says she's "proud of herself for asking for help on this" - I'm proud of her too! She's learning!

We all have felt bit-up from an on-line debate at one time or another, once we've learned how to deal with it, life is much better!

[zamora]

you guys made me cry.i can really see that the last few months clouded my responce.perhaps something had clouded the day of the two ladies who handed me this stick i put up my butt to begin with..

[gretchendances]

I often wonder... would this person or persons say the same things to you (or I... or anyone here) in person, to your face that they'd post on here in the forums?

I think that whatever you say in person or put out there on the forums or in print can come back to haunt you nd that what we put out there on the forums often can be read one way and meant another way... the vocal tone is lost. So why put out negativity? I know we are not always perfect people and we have bad days, we also can agree to disagree too. However I think it is VERY important to respect one another.

Yay for those who do!

[michellejoyce]

Are you talking about the By Dancers For Dancers nomination thread? Is this the exchange...?

------------------

Vron: Oh, and I vote for Cory Zamora, the veil queen!

Cory: (posted 7 months later): THANK YOU so much, after reading pages and pages of this thread, i pretty much want to say, "screw you, i'm going home" i have felt like leaving bhuz so many times. i do have something to offer, even if no one here wants it.

Me: What a strange response to being nominated for a professional project!

[michellejoyce]

I was just saying it was strange. I don't know enough about you to say if you are in professional DVDs or not. I am just saying that my project is professional and that saying "screw you, I don't get enough attention" is a very strange response to being considered as a participant.

[zamora]

i do not see any point in going on.my last responce was fine, after the kind people who helped me through this, i do not see any point in going backwards.thank you gretchen.just as no one knows what is going on inside me, i made a joke, when i was made uncomfortable.it was a mistake to do so in print. i hold onto the wonderful words that lifted me up.one only has to read to find info on anyone here.
we all need a boost sometimes, life is not the same for all ! i owe you guys now!

[kharis_UK]

Originally Posted by raqsana

One thing I realized when I went back over the person’s posts the next day is that most people on here see it for what it really is. This person way over reacted to something and then responded in a classless manner. Her post came across as thoughtless and ignorant, with every other word being “****” and “crap.” She looked like a totally idiot.

It took everything in me not to respond to this person, as I tend to have a strong personality myself (and I hate bullies). Thank god I was able to be the bigger person and let it go. I’ve made a decision to ignore the thread from here on out, which is my advice for you in the future. There will always be these types of people, I find it best to ignore them when possible and work around them.

I know that this is the right and proper way to respond but sometimes it really gets my goat that people like yourself bite their tongue and do the right thing but the perpetrator of the nastiness then feels perfectly justified in his/her actions simply because nobody put them in their place. I think bullying on boards should be treated with Zero tolerance.

[ruta21030]

Originally Posted by kharis_UK

I know that this is the right and proper way to respond but sometimes it really gets my goat that people like yourself bite their tongue and do the right thing but the perpetrator of the nastiness then feels perfectly justified in his/her actions simply because nobody put them in their place. I think bullying on boards should be treated with Zero tolerance.

i agree.....i've made my opinion known on our local boards, and quite a while ago on this one when someone gets nasty (TRULY nasty, not a perception)...i DO practice what i preach by using tactful language, and hopefully and even tone...i never believed in 'looking the other way', but a good 'high road' by speaking up, but not using the language or tactics of the offender....or i end up on their lower level......there are alot of wonderful, strong folk on this board to keep the biatches in line

granted, even the most benevolent admonition will be viewed as an attack by people looking for, or spoiling for a fight, but at least they, and the board know there aren't shrinking violets and doormats that let them get away with it.....

[jessica]

wow this is wild
I know Cory Z and I think she is a brilliant dancer/teacher that I wish I had the money to bring to my area. She is a wealth of information about this dance that I think is becoming lost.
If presented with the opportunity to take a workshop from Cory please do, your dance will benefit from it.

[raqsana]

Originally Posted by kharis_UK

I know that this is the right and proper way to respond but sometimes it really gets my goat that people like yourself bite their tongue and do the right thing but the perpetrator of the nastiness then feels perfectly justified in his/her actions simply because nobody put them in their place. I think bullying on boards should be treated with Zero tolerance.

Kharis - I love you!

[dinavienna]

"first, please let me say that i would never assume i knew someone ..really knew them, from bhuz.if i felt someone was odd, or out of line, i would do as i do in life, or in person.find out what is in a person"

Ya.