Thread: Vegetarians and Weight Loss?

Originally Posted by amethyst_skyy

I never go up to someone and try to get them to stop eating meat, but too many times I have to defend myself.

That's good but you may find that you actually don't have to defend yourself.

Who cares if they think you should eat meat?

I refuse to let people lead me into those arguments. If they have a real question or are considering a Vegetarian diet themselves, I will talk to them about it. But if they are looking for a fight, I turn the other cheek.

I don't eat the way I do for other people's comfort, I do it for my health and spirituality. So no need to defend my choice, it's personal.

But then again I don't do it for animals so I don't have that same moral argument anyway.

Originally Posted by amethyst_skyy

I know you didn't watch the whole video, but I think the point about colesterol is a very good one if you watch the whole thing.

I don't know if you if you know what role cholesterol plays in the body. Our bodies require cholesterol; it is absolutely an essential chemical in our cell membranes. Our bodies make cholesterol; we don't have to get it from our diets. This means that vegetarians that eat a healthy diet can make plenty of cholesterol. The phenomenon of high cholesterol is not only the result of diet -- diet is just one factor. People with high cholesterol MAKE TOO MUCH. Dietary cholesterol just adds to an already existing problem. Reducing or even eliminating dietary cholesterol often doesn't lead to optimal blood lipid levels.

Why some people make too much cholesterol and have heart disease is much more complex than just whether they eat an omnivorous diet vs. a vegetarian one.

There is mounting evidence that refined fats and refined carbohydrates are playing a central role in all this, as is the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids. Our modern diet contains way too much of these. Also, animals reared by conventional practices and fed corn and soy have fats that differ from free-range animals that eat natural foods. Free range meat and dairy have more omega-3 fatty acids. If you were to look at people who ate only game meats or free-range fed meats, you would probably find they have way less heart and cholesterol problems. The problem isn't meat, its our modern agricultural practices aimed at mass production of cheap food.

The carbohydrate connection is an important one also. While it is not accurate to say that humans are not adapted to eating meat (because we are), it is absolutely accurate to say that we are not adapted to eating a grain-based diet. High carb consumption spikes insulin levels. Do you know what insulin does in the body, besides stabilize blood sugar? It directs the body to turn excess carbohydrate into fat and (drum roll) cholesterol. In some people, depending on their genetic makeup and past dietary history, the body becomes insulin-resistant and basically refined carbs become the major factor in development of metabolic syndrome and heart disease.
I am just one data point, but my cholesterol was at one time 289. I was trying to eat "healthy" -- low fat, limited meat and eggs, etc. By greatly reducing sugar and other refined carbs, increasing my meat and egg intake considerably (trying to use range fed animal products) and exercising, I was able to lower it to 178. My doctor at the time didn't believe I had done this without meds, and by going against the mantras of the american heart association, but I did. I'm not the only one. Meat and greens and fat, minimal grains and sugar is a diet that works very well for alot of people. Google "paleolithic diet" if you want to read more about this.

continued from above

I like the video because to me it shows that maybe were not suppose to be meat eaters (as in we dont have to be).

Amethyst, there is a huge HUGE difference between saying "we don't have to eat meat to be healthy" and "humans were not mean/designed/adapted to eat meat". It isn't right to use the first to justify the logical fallacy of the second.

Way too often I have meat eaters argue with me and try to tell me that were meant to be meat eaters and you cant be healthy without meat.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Just because meat eaters have argued this does not justify or validate that video which is full of all kinds of inaccuracies, pseudoscience, and just plain ridiculous garbage. Why not come up with a logically consistent argument for why a vegetarian diet can be healthy? Why the need to prove that humans didn't evolve eating meat (when scientific evidence of all kinds indicates that they did)?

This had some facts in it that show people that there are things about our bodies that are not meant for eating meat, like our long digestive systems with which we absorb cholesterol.

See my comments above about how dietary cholesterol plays but a small role in high cholesterol and heart disease problems. I'm not sure what you mean by "meant for eating meat". Humans have been omnivores throughout their evolutionary history. Our digestive systems reflect this history.

I'm not trying to say that people are not meant to and cant eat meat. I ate meat most my life and its fine. I did it because of my love for animals and that was the only reason. The health benefits were an extra when I found out about them. I never go up to someone and try to get them to stop eating meat, but too many times I have to defend myself. And i think this video has a couple very good points to say that we dont NEED meat

The video is full of logical inconsistencies, misinformation, and pseudoscience. Really, it doesn't have even a couple of good points (I have since watched it all). Please, everyone, stop circulating this crap.

Find rational and logical argument for your vegetarianism. It shouldn't be that hard. How about this: "although humans evolved as omnimvores, we can achieve good health under different dietary regimes. I choose to be a vegetarian for ethical and ecological reasons." Sounds good to me.

Originally Posted by ssipes

I don't know if you if you know what role cholesterol plays in the body. Our bodies require cholesterol; it is absolutely an essential chemical in our cell membranes. Our bodies make cholesterol; we don't have to get it from our diets. This means that vegetarians that eat a healthy diet can make plenty of cholesterol. The phenomenon of high cholesterol is not only the result of diet -- diet is just one factor. People with high cholesterol MAKE TOO MUCH. Dietary cholesterol just adds to an already existing problem. Reducing or even eliminating dietary cholesterol often doesn't lead to optimal blood lipid levels.

Why some people make too much cholesterol and have heart disease is much more complex than just whether they eat an omnivorous diet vs. a vegetarian one.

There is mounting evidence that refined fats and refined carbohydrates are playing a central role in all this, as is the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids. Our modern diet contains way too much of these. Also, animals reared by conventional practices and fed corn and soy have fats that differ from free-range animals that eat natural foods. Free range meat and dairy have more omega-3 fatty acids. If you were to look at people who ate only game meats or free-range fed meats, you would probably find they have way less heart and cholesterol problems. The problem isn't meat, its our modern agricultural practices aimed at mass production of cheap food.

The carbohydrate connection is an important one also. While it is not accurate to say that humans are not adapted to eating meat (because we are), it is absolutely accurate to say that we are not adapted to eating a grain-based diet. High carb consumption spikes insulin levels. Do you know what insulin does in the body, besides stabilize blood sugar? It directs the body to turn excess carbohydrate into fat and (drum roll) cholesterol. In some people, depending on their genetic makeup and past dietary history, the body becomes insulin-resistant and basically refined carbs become the major factor in development of metabolic syndrome and heart disease.
I am just one data point, but my cholesterol was at one time 289. I was trying to eat "healthy" -- low fat, limited meat and eggs, etc. By greatly reducing sugar and other refined carbs, increasing my meat and egg intake considerably (trying to use range fed animal products) and exercising, I was able to lower it to 178. My doctor at the time didn't believe I had done this without meds, and by going against the mantras of the american heart association, but I did. I'm not the only one. Meat and greens and fat, minimal grains and sugar is a diet that works very well for alot of people. Google "paleolithic diet" if you want to read more about this.

this.

(also there are other theories as to causes of / contributors to heart disease aside from the lipid hypothesis)