Thread: Building flight and lightness in your dancing

I have always found Belly Dancing classes not enough, for fitness and exercise. But more specifically for performance and building a good dance and performance background in my own practice as an artist.

I have - over the years - worked on cycling, circuit fitness, weightlifting, yoga, pilates etc.

I was always considered a bit of a nut from other dancers in class and other professionals/artists, and then again they also admired my performance work.

Since studying at a higher level of dance I have found out that other dance disciplines use other forms of body work, somatic work and fitness to get "better" results in their dancing and performance work.

Why does it get missed by so many Belly Dancers? I am talking about professionals too, I have worked with some very well known ones, and it is as if they are saying this is all you need to know.

I have come across an article, written about 10 years ago, by a well known character in the UK scene who talked about running every other day. She talked very specifically about the lightness and flight that comes from having a physical discipline like running to build a dancer's body awareness of internal bounce, weight shift and using their energy upwards to bring a lightness of foot into their dancing.

I have to say I was pleased to come across this, and I do find Belly Dancers to be heavy footed, and lumbersome in performance. And I know other dance professionals, from other dance genres, who are very disapproving of lack of flight, lightness and therefore musicality in some Belly Dancer's work, I have to agree.

Personally I am working on SPinning, and other cardio workouts like treadmill and cross trainers to build up my lightness of feet for dancing - I am noticing the results in my performance work.

Siouxsie

Running, with its strong weight-bearing and joint-jarring is the very last type of cross-training I'd choose for lightness of foot. For that you need Ballet.

You might find Sahra Saeeda and Farida Fahmy's discussions of high and low center helpful in this as well. I don't know if there is anything online, but it is something Sahra talks about regularly in her adv/pro intensives. She explains it beautifully and it has helped a lot in my own dancing. Our dance form is based on a lot of very low center, weighted movements which is unusual when compared to something like ballet where the movements are largely based in high center and meant to appear weightless. This does give dancers, especially those with strong folkloric backgrounds, a heavier feel to their movements on occasion, but I don't think it is a bad thing.

I agree that cross-training in other fitness and dance forms can be very useful to keep dancers aware of the different capabilities of their bodies. I think that the form of the cross-training is really up to the dancer's intentions. For lightness and quick movement, ballet is a great cross-training discipline and works beautifully in tandem with modern Egyptian stylings.

It may be different in your area, but most of the advanced and professional dancers in my area cross-train in other dance or fitness forms regularly. This is something that I definitely support. I don't think it is required to be a good dancer in our form, but it is always good practice to keep our bodies and brains engaged.

I loath the gym, tried it for years, Escaped boxes and other bounding aerobic activitites by joining belly dance classes. I have no intention of trying to ballet dance at my age and I must have been the only only little girl who didn't want a tutu. I know teachers of this dance who say they spend time "undoing ballet" in the students . I don't agree as ballet gives a dancer grace and power and discipline but I think there are other ways to lightness in belly dance.
Simply listening to music and its' dictates, I believe will help. Confidence helps and the more familiar you become with techique and the music, the more that grows.
Dancers who look cumbersome and awkward are often not used to performing and under-rehearsed or are not really that dedicated to striving for standards. I was amazed to listen to a group of students of some years whose lack of background knowledge meant they really had no base for their dance and they confessed to not practising their technique..that isn't going to make for any kind of quality of performance.
As to running: that's something I do my best to avoid..but walking that's something else. And walking in beautiful scenery or a pleasant park is a very "light" experience.

Originally Posted by supercooper

Since studying at a higher level of dance I have found out that other dance disciplines use other forms of body work, somatic work and fitness to get "better" results in their dancing and performance work.

I assume this is due to the fact that many other dance disciplines have academic and professional career trajectories that demand a high level of physical strength, stamina, precise technique, etc., in order to be competitive. Sometimes all you need to be competitive as a "professional" belly dancer is nerve. If you're a loud enough squeaky wheel, you can dominate in a lot of markets--perhaps not the ones that have traditionally had large, savvy ethnic populations, but those are few and far between in a large place like the US.

Why does it get missed by so many Belly Dancers? I am talking about professionals too, I have worked with some very well known ones, and it is as if they are saying this is all you need to know.

Wishful thinking? Saying what your students want to hear? A rather generous re-envisioning of the truth? The Middle East is full of great dancers who never took a formal lesson, maybe not I-could-hop-up-on-stage-with-the-Reda-Troupe "great," but put-on-a-little-of-that-Adaweyya-and-I'll-mop-the-floor-with-you-turkeys-because-I'm-better-than-99%-of-you-at-this-workshop-show "great." And many of us would be happy to be that kind of raw, mop-the-floor great, so teachers sell us this illusion that loving the music and wanting to dance is enough, while leaving out the part about a lifetime of cultural knowledge and practice being behind the greatness of those native dancers. Teachers want students, and when you look around at what the average student is, it isn't someone who wants to devote the time and effort to being a rigorously trained dancer, assuming they aren't starting so late in life that it's unrealistic to train like that anyway. A teacher who says, "Do you guys ever take an honest look at yourselves? You're lazy and you have a tragically over-inflated sense of your own abilities" isn't going to win a lot of fans. And what would be the point? So you could invest thousands of dollars in cross training on top of your MED training, and Six-Week Suzy could still beat you to that $250 retirement party gig? There's nothing wrong with labors of love and suffering for your art, but you better really, really want to be good at this with your whole heart to sink that kind of cash into what is an economically tenuous career choice.

Most of our top professional dancers have cross trained extensively. Very few haven't. It's a poorly kept secret and a tepidly endorsed strategy.

[Continued...]

I have come across an article, written about 10 years ago, by a well known character in the UK scene who talked about running every other day. She talked very specifically about the lightness and flight that comes from having a physical discipline like running to build a dancer's body awareness of internal bounce, weight shift and using their energy upwards to bring a lightness of foot into their dancing.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Cross-training in any movement discipline (exercise or art), with a knowledgeable mentor can improve your technique, but I don't think you necessarily have to run to be a good dancer, and sometimes too much training in other athletic pursuits works against you. Case in point: If you've ever seen a professional athlete on a reality show where they have to ballroom dance or figure skate, they usually look like Russian circus bears, even though within their sport, they're considered to be quite agile.

I also don't think "lightness and flight" are always essential to this dance. If anything, a lot of students struggle to get organic "heft" into their folk dancing. They're too heavy when they need to be light, and too light when they need to be heavy.

I have to say I was pleased to come across this, and I do find Belly Dancers to be heavy footed, and lumbersome in performance.

Hold on while I put on my flame-retardant jumpsuit... Let's admit what the problem is here: not everybody who wanders into a belly dance class is, or has the potential to be, a good dancer, and very few of the weak get culled from the population. We get a lot of students who couldn't hack it in other dance forms--either got phased out as they aged and the competition got stiffer, or knew they wouldn't have had a chance and didn't even try when they were younger. We also get a lot of students who aren't interested in the hard work behind being good. They just want to play dress up. If we can't get them to practice what they're learning in our classes, how are we going to get them to sign up for ballet classes or gym memberships?

At any rate, to me, being "light on your feet" is something you are born with. This is not a comment on how fat people are or aren't. I've seen women who are very graceful, ethereal dancers and who are closer to size 40 than size 4. I've also seen wee little things who dance like they're wearing magnetic shoes on an iron floor. You've either got it or you don't...

And I know other dance professionals, from other dance genres, who are very disapproving of lack of flight, lightness and therefore musicality in some Belly Dancer's work, I have to agree.

...but if you have a teacher who isn't qualified and isn't capable of instilling good posture in you, you're still going to look like more of a shlump than you need to.

Musicality doesn't always reside in the feet..or arms. There is a reason we call it belly dance. Perhaps other dance professional are not comfortable looking for musicality in other areas of the body.

Originally Posted by anala

Musicality doesn't always reside in the feet..or arms. There is a reason we call it belly dance. Perhaps other dance professional are not comfortable looking for musicality in other areas of the body.

:thumbs_up:

Beautiful example of how to get a point across in a few short words. Perfect. ITA.

I don't type, so I must compress stuff into simple sentences out of sheer necessity! ;-)

I'm all for cross training to improve one's dance. Strengthening, and building cardiovascular fitness I think are great assets to improve control and stamina.

However, "flight" and "lightness" aren't words I typically associate with the virtues of this particular dance form.

I see being grounded in the movement and instigating movements with subtlety and internal motivation as positives.

There is some sluggish dancing out there, I'll admit, but I think there are other desirable alternatives that are more true to the roots of this dance than lightness of foot and flight. I think grace, intention and connection would be words I'd use instead.

There are several ways we can compare Oriental dance to other dance forms. In some ways you can find Oriental Dance lacking, but in others Oriental Dance is totally unmatched.

I'd also like to see Oriental Dancers improve their discipline for the improvement of our craft, but retain what makes this dance unique and wonderful and not strive to make our dance form too much like any other.

Originally Posted by shems

I see being grounded in the movement and instigating movements with subtlety and internal motivation as positives.

I think grace, intention and connection would be words I'd use instead.

THIS!

I agree that being grounded and working from the core are important elements of the dance.

However, I think that being able to move well across the floor is also really important.

I don't think one has to cross train to get that, I do think that strong feet and legs are critical. Strong feet can be built a number of ways, ballet, obviously as long as you don't do toe work of course.

Strong LOWER legs are really vital. You can't get lift off the deck unless your lower legs are strong. That obviously applies to balance. If you can't do figure 8's on one leg your balance isn't good enough. If your balance isn't good enough you can't walk well and if you can't walk well you can't dance well either.

Similarly being strong in relation to your own body makes you dance well.

Tourbeau rightly pointed out that a lot of oriental dancers do not work out in the gym. People who work hard within pastoral or agrarian cultures do not need to work out period, they have to be strong to survive and they will dance lightly because they are strong.

Westerners who sit on the tuchas all day - that's another story.

You know what? I walk a lot, I do practice A LOT and I teach my students to work on their legs and feet, hands and arms because the dance isn't *just* about hips and belly, and being able to turn and travel well is important.

That comes from strength and good balance. That can be improved even if we're born klutzes.

How you get fit though - well there are lots of ways.

Personally I hate anything resembling pain. I am working on a system of envisioning myself as a butterfly.

That way I can sit on the couch and voila!

Lightness!..l;,..l;,..l;,

Westerners who sit on the tuchas all day - that's another story.

Exactly..in other parts of the world people walk...a lot ..and sometimes rather beautifully...

Belly dance really isn't about light feet and flying moves. Some dancers are lighter on their feet - Lucy of Cairo would be one IMO- but in general the whole point is the groundedness. I have to remember to stay down there now after a bit of ballet revision.

Yes agreed, but if someone can't move from point A to point B with some grace it ruins all of the hard work it took to do the other 90% of earthy moves, I think.

Yes to grounded-ness. When I see clunky travelling, often it's that the upper body isn't lifted up off the hips. I've seen the best improvement with that issue in students when they work on core strength. Maybe "float" describes it better than "flight" or "lightness"?

Originally Posted by MahinS

Yes to grounded-ness. When I see clunky travelling, often it's that the upper body isn't lifted up off the hips. I've seen the best improvement with that issue in students when they work on core strength. Maybe "float" describes it better than "flight" or "lightness"?

Right. I like the term "float."

So listen, do you guys think I can patent The Butterfly Visualization? It could avoid a whole lot of agony if only it works. We could have our couch and our lightness too.

..l;,

Originally Posted by supercooper

I have come across an article, written about 10 years ago, by a well known character in the UK scene who talked about running every other day. She talked very specifically about the lightness and flight that comes from having a physical discipline like running to build a dancer's body awareness of internal bounce, weight shift and using their energy upwards to bring a lightness of foot into their dancing.

Personally I am working on SPinning, and other cardio workouts like treadmill and cross trainers to build up my lightness of feet for dancing - I am noticing the results in my performance work.

Siouxsie

Really?
I'm a runner and a dancer. I do think I am floaty dancer rather than an earthier one. But I don't find that comes from running at all. I run for strength and stamina, overall cardio fitness. This certainly helps me in my dancing from an endurance perspective. But I don't think it has anything to do with making me lighter on my feet. The lightness/awareness in feet and legs has come from years of ballet and gymnastics, as well as recently studying Tango.

I actually find running to be a very grounded experience, you want to be connected to the ground, feel the terrain as it changes beneath you. Energy should be low and smooth, you don't want to bounce when your run. I suppose if you want some more cardio-intensive training, I could see jumping rope might help with lightness on the feet.

mmm... this is interesting.

I go running, but that is about not getting 'puffed out' when dancing rather than anything to do with lightness.

I am not sure we should be promoting 'lightness', unless i am misunderstanding this one?

I find that many people dance 'high in the body' and need lowering a little.

The Western aspects of this dance (ala Reda) are about flight, but the Egyptian dance as was.. is about being low in the centre of gravity.

That is not to say people should dance like they are wearing flippers, but I generally find this dance is rising into the chest area more than ever before.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

mmm... this is interesting.

I go running, but that is about not getting 'puffed out' when dancing rather than anything to do with lightness.

I am not sure we should be promoting 'lightness', unless i am misunderstanding this one?

I find that many people dance 'high in the body' and need lowering a little.

The Western aspects of this dance (ala Reda) are about flight, but the Egyptian dance as was.. is about being low in the centre of gravity.

That is not to say people should dance like they are wearing flippers, but I generally find this dance is rising into the chest area more than ever before.

Yes I think that's true, I think it reflects a Western influence although a proud carriage doesn't hurt - but we used to actually lean backwards a lot...l;,

I suspect maybe though this isn't what Souixsie is talking about - I'm guessing and maybe I shouldn't be but the idea would be - why isn't footwork and a strong leg and bottom and a good solid lift off the foot onto the ball of the foot, which creates a smooth travel - and/or smooth weight shifts - ditto - given as much attention as maybe they should be?

Of course I agree with Tourbeau that most of us don't sit around eating bon bons all day. Except me of course, visualizing butterflies

Also travels, "lightness" etc and certainly footwork and transitions are affected by the use of heels. That changes the way the foot and leg and hip connect with the ground (duh).

Personally I am too clumsy to dance in heels so being grounded isn't an issue...l;,..l;,..l;,

I think there are many different ways to go with this.

Dancers from "over there" are varied in their "lightness." Some much more "earthy" than others, some a little more floaty.
The difficult balance that I've seen most often in Westerners is being earthy, without the leg/footwork becoming heavy/clunky.
A challenge for someone with western dance training however can be the tendency to be floaty all the time and to not get earthy enough.
Running really requires one to stretch a lot- the lower legs as well as hamstrings and hip flexors. Diminished flexibility that is SO common in runners could impede the dance, IMO.
I'm all for cross training though. It's good for the body.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

I think there are many different ways to go with this.

Dancers from "over there" are varied in their "lightness." Some much more "earthy" than others, some a little more floaty.
The difficult balance that I've seen most often in Westerners is being earthy, without the leg/footwork becoming heavy/clunky.
A challenge for someone with western dance training however can be the tendency to be floaty all the time and to not get earthy enough.
Running really requires one to stretch a lot- the lower legs as well as hamstrings and hip flexors. Diminished flexibility that is SO common in runners could impede the dance, IMO.
I'm all for cross training though. It's good for the body.

The main problem I see with running over the long haul is possible damage to knees and feet.

As we get older in particular - ouch - fragile.

Wearing good shoes is really important (news from Grandma...l;,..l;,..l;,)

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

The main problem I see with running over the long haul is possible damage to knees and feet.

As we get older in particular - ouch - fragile.

Wearing good shoes is really important (news from Grandma...l;,..l;,..l;,)

Apparently, Grandma's news is out of date. Now they're advocating barefoot running or minimal shoes.
The painful truth about trainers: Are expensive running shoes a waste of money? | Mail Online

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Apparently, Grandma's news is out of date. Now they're advocating barefoot running or minimal shoes.
The painful truth about trainers: Are expensive running shoes a waste of money? | Mail Online

Oh, I wasn't talking about running shoes - just good shoes for daily use - shoes with good arch support.

As to the other - it doesn't surprise me to be out of date (again)..l;,..l;,..l;,

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

The main problem I see with running over the long haul is possible damage to knees and feet.

As we get older in particular - ouch - fragile.

I wasn't advocating running, but cross training in some way.
In Pilates I get tons of runners in- with injuries; knee, foot/ankle, hip- you name it. Or even chronic upper back issues from slumpy running posture and no upper body work. Runners need cross training, too. (and bare feet apparently)

I wouldn't associate running with being a light dancer (unless you are talking about actual poundage of the dancer's body.)

As someone who had a dance career in another dance form (not bellydance) I will tell you the somatic work done for better DANCE ability was cross-training in other dance forms as well as aerobic, flexibility and strength training. The strength training was to maintain posture and body alignment. The flexibility training was to ensure that movement could be carried out and the aerobic training was done for endurance and body weight plain and simple.

I find floor barre, decompression exercises and ideokinesis based exercises to be very helpful to establish a sensation of center - whether it be high or low.

Ideokinetic alignment practices, Knaiseff Floor Barre, Alexander Technique, Feldenkreis, Yoga, breathing exercises all assist with better body alignment, awareness and command.

I find these to have complimentary benefit to my work and my teaching without adding bulk or unnecessary compression or shortening of the muscles along with providing better body awareness and better articulation of movement.

DaVid

Running, I find, is for runners. I can't run bar short bursts. Have you SEEN my body? I'm not built for it. Walk, yeah, I can walk forever and I walk pretty fast. I am quite mercurial in some ways, movement wise. But the repetitive jolting movement of running is not for me and never has been, not even when I was still only a B cup. That's actually one of the things I liked about BD as a movement form, that it was not about jumping up and down.