Thread: Can zills damage your hearing?

I figured this was the most appropriate forum for this question. Does anyone know if playing zills can contribute to hearing loss? I love them, and since I'm learning American Vintage, I figure they are sort of required, but during practice sessions they kind of bother my ears. On the other hand, my zills are pretty cheap and irritating to begin with, haha. :)

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone knew anything about this. Are zills okay for one's hearing?

Like any instrument, finger cymbals have dynamics. Or, to say it in a different way: zills come with a volume control. If a particular set's pitch bothers your ears, try a different model and/or a different maker. My ears are happy with Turquoise zills, and for me, they also lend themselves to playing with dynamics.

im going to have to agree with the pitch comment. it took me 6 diff zill sets till i found one i could tollerate...also using them in a big open airy space helps some too

You could always use zill mufflers or baby socks for practicing. I've never heard that zills are bad for your hearing, but they can be hard on people with hearing aids, so when dancing in a nursing home for folks with hearing aids it's best to use light, quiet zills.

I like my Saroyan Turkish Delights and my Zildjians for best tone. One of my students has a pair of Saroyan Tinker Zills that I covet. They are small and light-sounding.Amazon.com: Brass Tinker Zills/Finger Cymbals/Zils: Musical Instruments

I don't see why there is any reason they couldn't damage one's hearing. Some cymbals can be quite loud, and in the right (wrong) circumstances, they could be problematic. If you are experiencing a buzzing or pain in your ears while--and particularly if it persists after--you stop playing, yes, your body is trying to tell you something is wrong. In my case, I make a distinction between the cheap set I bought as a beginner that has warped out of tune (unpleasant to listen to) and playing my Turquoise Pros in the small, paneled den of our house (which feels like having my head imprisoned in a diving bell full of tuning forks). I'm not sure about the former, but I'd bet the latter would result in some amount of hearing loss over time.

Adding to the suggestions to try a different pair of cymbals and using something to muffle them, try practicing in a different space. Room acoustics can make a difference in how quickly the sound dissipates. It doesn't sound like playing professional-size cymbals in a noisy restaurant with a live band for long periods of time is an issue now, so we can let OSHA worry about occupational hazards, and even if it's really bad, you always have the option of wearing discrete earplugs to take the edge off. Nothing about this dance is worth permanent damage to one of your senses if you can avoid it.

One last thing to consider is technique. If your teacher is only teaching you to play "full ring," you might want to look for a teacher with a larger style palette. Perhaps you would prefer learning more of a clacking or clamshell style of playing.

If you are going to play a full range of dynamics, you have to practice a full range of dynamics. I am still trying to figure out a way to change the accoustics in the studio. At home, I am not kidding you, I practice in the laundry area (we hang our clothes to dry- no electric dryer) where the clothes can deaden the sound, lol!

Earplugs? Hey, if bagpipers wear them, zillers can too! Ain't no shame in that game if you play a loud instrument (unless, of course, you wear earplugs when practicing not because you play a loud instrument but because you're so terrible at it you can't stand to hear yourself. :) )

With, of course, the caveat: if they're too loud for you, they may also be too loud for anyone who lives with you (roommates, significant others, kids, pets) or for your neighbors (if you live in an apartment as I do!), so consider that too.

Off topic, but zills can be unpleasant for those wearing hearing aids.

Thanks for the great suggestions, everyone. :) I'll be experimenting to see what works best. I never really thought about dynamics; I doubt my cheap-o zills have much! I'm going to try the Tinker zills first because they are also supposed to be good for small hands, which I have. I do have some zill mufflers I crocheted, and they work very well, but for practicing different kinds of sounds I need to remove them. If I have to, I can just go outside to practice. If it bothers any of the hundreds of deer around here, they can just move on to the next lawn. ;)

Not great for range of sound, but something as simple as tape on zills will muffle the sound. Handy if you just want to drill for muscle strength.

Originally Posted by Kalaneet

Thanks for the great suggestions, everyone. :) I'll be experimenting to see what works best. I never really thought about dynamics; I doubt my cheap-o zills have much! I'm going to try the Tinker zills first because they are also supposed to be good for small hands, which I have. I do have some zill mufflers I crocheted, and they work very well, but for practicing different kinds of sounds I need to remove them. If I have to, I can just go outside to practice. If it bothers any of the hundreds of deer around here, they can just move on to the next lawn. ;)

I can't in good conscience recommend tinker zills as anything more than a novelty. As for small hands, my 8 year old can handle the Saroyan arabesque, and the heavier zills are actually easier to play, IMO, because you get a bit of assistance in getting a good bounce for a clean sound. The tone is usually better too, and some of the more mellow tones from the heavier zills can be easier on the ear. For different tones with the same diameter as the arabesque, I like the Moorish and Persian styles from Saroyan as well, and I believe his "modern" and "contemporary" are also in that size range, but I can't remember their tone.

Originally Posted by Lara L

I can't in good conscience recommend tinker zills as anything more than a novelty. As for small hands, my 8 year old can handle the Saroyan arabesque, and the heavier zills are actually easier to play, IMO, because you get a bit of assistance in getting a good bounce for a clean sound. The tone is usually better too, and some of the more mellow tones from the heavier zills can be easier on the ear. For different tones with the same diameter as the arabesque, I like the Moorish and Persian styles from Saroyan as well, and I believe his "modern" and "contemporary" are also in that size range, but I can't remember their tone.

You may be right, however I borrowed my student's tinker zills once for a performance when I had forgotten mine, and I liked them a lot.

A lot of students where I am use Saroyan Nefertitis, even past the beginner level. For their size/weight/tone/price, I'd say they're the best starter cymbals on the market. Nefertitis aren't what you want if you play in situations where you need a lot of volume (live band, noisy parties, outdoors, etc.), or if you're aiming for a specific playing style that requires a particular shaped cymbal, but I would recommend them over the tinkers if you're just getting started.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

A lot of students where I am use Saroyan Nefertitis, even past the beginner level. For their size/weight/tone/price, I'd say they're the best starter cymbals on the market. Nefertitis aren't what you want if you play in situations where you need a lot of volume (live band, noisy parties, outdoors, etc.), or if you're aiming for a specific playing style that requires a particular shaped cymbal, but I would recommend them over the tinkers if you're just getting started.

I think the nefertitis are the most widely used student zills, but the arabesque are only a couple dollars more, and I think the tiny bit of extra weight is an advantage when starting to learn. Just my preference.

Dunya, I want to be clear, I actually like both my tinker zills and the mini zills- bought them for my kids but I've used them as well for music. I specifically wanted to address the idea that smaller hands can't handle the heavier zills, and offer up the advantage I see in starting with those slightly heavier sets as food for thought. I'm not talking about the really heavy zills, I think 130-180 grams is a good weight for beginners. More than that and the hands will tire quickly until you are used to them, less than that and it is harder (as in you actually have to work harder, not that the zills themselves are flawed!) to get that good, weighty bouncing strike. There are a lot of choices in that range, for hand size as well as tone and volume. If you want LOUD zills, I'd check out the bronze. For mellow, brass. Silver tends to have a bit of an edge, to me, and is generally higher in pitch. I am such a cymbal geek I will choose my zills based on the specific music, but that's beyond what a beginner needs to worry about! It's hard enough just finding one set you like, and that right there makes a huge difference in actually enjoying learning them at all.

I love hearing everybody's opinions. :) I went to the Saroyan site and checked out the soundfiles before ordering the Tinkerzills; I like the tinkly sound they make. It's not so much that I'm intimidated by the idea of larger zills, but more that I thought it would be fun to try something specifically made for smaller hands. But I think the argument for using heavier zills to start off with makes sense, so I'll listen to some samples and pick out some others as well. I think it's probably a good idea to have a few sets anyway since I don't know my own preferences yet.