Thread: this got out of control....moving...

Ok, putting my grumpy hat on and growling...
<GRUMP>
I don't like kids and I don't apologize for it. I didn't like (most) kids when I was a kid. I expect kids to be seen and not heard. 99% of these brats that are running around wild need to be turned over someone's knee and paddled like I was when I was a PITA as a child (Spare me the politically correct B*LLS**T about non-spanking, I really don't care). Anyone who dares to bring up my childfree status with me gets the above lecture. It usually shuts them the h*ll up.

HOWEVER -

On the rare occasions I encounter a well behaved child, they are indeed a joy and I *always* compliment the parents.
</GRUMP>

lol you should feel NO pressure..you are young and have plenty of ovulation time IF it's what you decide

spend a week with me and you'll be fine not having them :) i couldnt live without my boys and cant believe i want a third (really want a girl) but my god some days i am pulling my hair out ..most days actually :)

Slightly off topic, but this thread made me think of this Bill Bailey sketch . . .

YouTube - speaking as a mother...

Flame away, nobody can touch my love for Bill!!

Zaf

Originally Posted by Adishakti

Eh.... I always say, that if you are ever feeling like you're a bad parent... just go to the grocery store or Walmart. You'll feel like mother of the year. ..l;,

LOL! That is so true.

I've only had to smack my niece twice.
I can't remember the first time, but I do remember the second time (upset me to do it).
I told her to NEVER touch the button for the garbage disposal...she turned it on, and I smacked her hand a little harder than I wanted to, my fingers still hurt just thinking about it.

She's also learned the OTHER hard way, to listen too me.

When she was about 4 years old, she was excited about something, and was jumping up and down in the kitchen.
I told her "You better stop that, you might split your head open."

I walked off, into my bedroom and shut the door. I was barely into my room when I heard a knock on my door, and a friend was saying we have to go to the emergency room, she split her head open...I thought he was kidding!

BTW

Originally Posted by Sonja2

mentioned today to a coworker that I was worried about my (previously mentioned on bhuz) houseguests and their 2 year old around my dog, especially when i'm dancing a party this evening & not able to be home, and he just lit into me! I mean, it will probably be fine, and my worries don't mean that I don't look forward to seeing them, or to spending time with them. I do! I like them all! I just don't want someone to get hurt!

Am I not justified here? Is there something wrong with me for not wanting kids yet? ***deep sigh*** Sorry for the rant, but I've had about enough of people fousting "holier than thou" attitudes my direction lately on a variety of levels! AAAAAAAAAAUUUUGGGGHHH!!! ..cr.:

No, you're not wrong for waiting to have kids. If you feel you're not ready, then it's wise to wait.

Your co-worker is probably one of those guys that never worries about a thing. Does he have dogs, or children? Has he ever had to pick up after someone elses mess? Hopefully the guests will clean up after themselves, but I know there are some that don't.
Here in my house everyone knows NOT to touch my dishes. I'm the only one that cleans my kitchen. I'm picky about how they're done, and where they go.

How's your husband doing?

Originally Posted by Adishakti

Eh.... I always say, that if you are ever feeling like you're a bad parent... just go to the grocery store or Walmart. You'll feel like mother of the year. ..l;,

True! ..g.:

And the other side of the coin is that I've seen kids throwing temper tantrums in the store or generally misbehaving and thought to myself: "been there, done that" and feel empathy for the parents - who might just be very good parents - with a child who is having a "moment." Murphy's Law means if kids are going to misbehave, it's usually in public and in a situation where they show you up BIG TIME! (I think we must be related to Murphy because his law seems to be a big part of our lives! But I can assure you not one of my kids ever got bribed in a store with a candy, toy or treat as a way to get them to stop their inappropriate behaviour).

The most wonderful thing as a parent is seeing your kids reflect all the good, positive things you've tried to instil like hard work, accountability, responsibility, being grateful, kindness, showing sympathy/empathy, giving service, being a contributor as opposed to only being a taker/consumer, etc.

The most devastating thing as a parent is seeing your kids reject some or all of the those positive things. I remember being embarrassed once because I believed that one of my boy's actions would be seen as a reflection of what his father and I were like or had instilled in him.

I now realize that despite our best, mediocre or worst efforts our children will be who they are based on their own choices.

Originally Posted by zorba

Ok, putting my grumpy hat on and growling...
<GRUMP>
I don't like kids and I don't apologize for it. I didn't like (most) kids when I was a kid. I expect kids to be seen and not heard. 99% of these brats that are running around wild need to be turned over someone's knee and paddled like I was when I was a PITA as a child (Spare me the politically correct B*LLS**T about non-spanking, I really don't care). Anyone who dares to bring up my childfree status with me gets the above lecture. It usually shuts them the h*ll up.

HOWEVER -

On the rare occasions I encounter a well behaved child, they are indeed a joy and I *always* compliment the parents.
</GRUMP>

LOVE you, Zorba! You just saved me 5 minutes adding my two cents.......l;,

Originally Posted by jesennia

i couldnt live without my boys and cant believe i want a third (really want a girl) but my god some days i am pulling my hair out ..most days actually :)

I have four boys and I feel the same way. We must have been mad to have any children at all! Or pets for that matter!

But my goodness, they (both kids and pets) have brought the highest of highs as well as the lowest of lows into our lives.

And I have to say that logic has nothing to do with your desire for having either kids or pets. Logic says that we should never have been able to afford either of our two dogs or any of our four children. Logic says that we didn't have the space or time for any of them. Logic said wait until you are established financially, in career, in a house. But a higher power - call it instinct, intuition, emotion, biological clock if you will - said otherwise.

And here we are poorer and wiser! I'll leave you to guess as whether or not we are happy! ..l;,

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I have frankly noticed a disturbing trend of nobody reining their children in. If their kids are insufferable brats, they think it's cute or excusable. I see the kinds of things I would have gotten walloped for in my own childhood.

that is so true!
we were never allowed to act the way many kids do. it can be really shocking to see what some parents accepts as permissible behavior

not saying all kids, but so many act like feral little banshees as though they were never taught how to act in public. and the parents just ignore it or put up with it.

what really gets me is the disrespect with which so many little kids speak to their parents. and the parents tolerate it! if they disrespect their parents, they will disrespect everyone.

kids have always been full of energy. the difference is whether they were taught how to act in public and if there was follow through with the discipline consequence.

I'm 24 and I don't think I'll ever desire kids, for many reasons. I don't think I will change my mind, though everyone keeps trying to convince me so. I don't care. That was your choice this is mine.

A related story-at my wedding reception, a lady runs to me all proud with a picture of her daughter, who was pregnant with twins at the time. I gasped in shock when I saw her stomach, which really did look like a watermelon from all the stretch marks (poor thing). My mom was standing by and yells " Oh my god don't show her that!!!! She'll never have kids!". I was traumatized and headed straight for the bar. I mean come on it was my wedding reception! So anyway-just another reason it probably ain't gonna happen!

[QUOTE=Adishakti;235715]Actually, it's not about restraint. What are the parents supposed to do? Yell at them? Kids are full of energy... they just are.
What this couple needs to do is take their children outside to play. But I don't think it's fair to call them brats.

YES, as a parent, you SHOULD RESTRAIN them if they act up and have no respect for other children, adults, animals, or other people's space or possessions. YOU SHOULD TEACH them what is appropriate behavior and what is not appropriate BEFORE you take them 'OUT' -- whether it's outside to play or any other situation where there is interaction with others.

Just one of so many examples that enrage me: I am vending at an event, or with my BF in his booth. A mom comes along with babies in a stroller, blocking customers who are genuinely interested in buying, another one in the oven, and an undisciplined, screeching, out-of-control child. The child flips over every piece of jewelry on the table, attempts to slap the fragile hanging crystals, turns over the displays, and John is alarmed and (yes, in a loud and worried voice) , "hey, what are you doing, stop that!" The mom is righteous and indignant and YELLS at him, "DON'T YOU DARE TALK TO MY CHILD LIKE THAT". WHAT???????? ,m:: ARE YOU KIDDING ME, Adishakti? They should not be restrained? She is interfering with his making a living, preventing other people from seeing the merchandise, she has no intention of buying anything, and is using the table as entertainment for her kids who have no respect for anything or anybody. They are allowed -- not just to touch -- but to destroy someone else's things, and NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO STOP OR RESTRAIN THEM? That mom is not taking her kids to the park to diffuse their energy, she is letting them loose on other people -- Another example: I was at the Post Office. Long line. Mom comes in with another out of control kid who is poking at everything, pulling, knocking things over and screeching. She looks at me and says, "I guess she could just tear up the place..." AND DOES NOTHING TO RESTRAIN THE CHILD, NOT SO MUCH AS A "NO, DON'T DO THAT!" I didn't want to fight that day, so all I said was, "Yeah, I'll just bet she would..." (with an angry face, of course) ...... and she lit into me -- the whole speech about kids will be kids ....... WHAT??????? And I am sick to death of everything else standing around smiling, "oh, how cute...." EXCUSE ME? Sorry, Adi, but if that mom upstairs can't or won't take the time to be a good parent, why do the people living downstairs have to pay for it?

Having vented, I will post a thread later about the 3 kids I am just doing a special workshop for and their recital last Saturday. I feel like they must be a different species from most other kids I come in contact with.

Another thing I've noticed is that some parents don't realize their kid is a brat. They are often the last to know.

Speaking as a former awful child myself here.

I want to add as well that there is a BIG difference between kids being generally rammy, which doesn't bother me at all, and their being allowed to run rampant, do anything they want, destroy property and behave abusively towards other people or animals.

Partially deleted

Originally Posted by naiyahayal

Just one of so many examples that enrage me: I am vending at an event, or with my BF in his booth. A mom comes along with babies in a stroller, blocking customers who are genuinely interested in buying, another one in the oven, and an undisciplined, screeching, out-of-control child. The child flips over every piece of jewelry on the table, attempts to slap the fragile hanging crystals, turns over the displays, and John is alarmed and (yes, in a loud and worried voice) , "hey, what are you doing, stop that!" The mom is righteous and indignant and YELLS at him, "DON'T YOU DARE TALK TO MY CHILD LIKE THAT". WHAT???????? ,m:: ARE YOU KIDDING ME, Adishakti?

Yep, I hate when parents don't watch their kids, expect everyone else to, and get mad, when someone finally says "Stop That! Don't Do That!, etc"

Sometimes parents learned things the tragic way.

A mom came into the store with a couple of kids, and just goes about shopping, and lets her kids run amuck (for a very long time).

They went into the hardware dept. played with sharp tools (table saw blades), re-arranged things, broke a few things, then went on to the next dept.
My friend that worked in hardware come over to tell me just how bad they were, and what a mess she had to pick up....then we were interupted by terrifying screams.
We looked up, and the assistant store manage had one of the kids in her arms running to the ladies room... trailing blood everywhere, and yelled to me to call 911!
The boys decided to play on the escalator, and one of them put their fingers where the steps go down into the floor, and lost several fingers.
Employees, had to search EVERYWHERE for the mother!!!!
The AMBULANCE got there BEFORE they found her, and this store wasn't that big!!!!
I can't believe she SUED the store!!!
I think she lost, because there were so many employees that wrote reports on what the kids were doing in their departments.
Poor kid!
Oh, and the assistant manager was included in the suit for administering first aid, before the mother was found to give permission.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, putting my grumpy hat on and growling...
<GRUMP>
I don't like kids and I don't apologize for it. I didn't like (most) kids when I was a kid. I expect kids to be seen and not heard. 99% of these brats that are running around wild need to be turned over someone's knee and paddled like I was when I was a PITA as a child (Spare me the politically correct B*LLS**T about non-spanking, I really don't care). Anyone who dares to bring up my childfree status with me gets the above lecture. It usually shuts them the h*ll up.

HOWEVER -

On the rare occasions I encounter a well behaved child, they are indeed a joy and I *always* compliment the parents.
</GRUMP>
oooooooooo you are speaking to ME!

Originally Posted by naiyahayal

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba
Ok, putting my grumpy hat on and growling...
<GRUMP>
I don't like kids and I don't apologize for it. I didn't like (most) kids when I was a kid. I expect kids to be seen and not heard. 99% of these brats that are running around wild need to be turned over someone's knee and paddled like I was when I was a PITA as a child (Spare me the politically correct B*LLS**T about non-spanking, I really don't care). Anyone who dares to bring up my childfree status with me gets the above lecture. It usually shuts them the h*ll up.

HOWEVER -

On the rare occasions I encounter a well behaved child, they are indeed a joy and I *always* compliment the parents.
</GRUMP>

LOVE you, Zorba! You just saved me 5 minutes adding my two cents.......l;,

LOL! Me too!! I have never had a maternal bone in my body for kids. I've never been comfortable around them, and the few times I've had to babysit, I absolutely HATED it! There was one time decades ago when my husband (now my ex) had volunteered me to babysit for his friend's infant, while he was off to work. She was fed & clean but just would NOT stop crying. I was so frustrated I was in tears myself & actually shook her & screamed at her to shut up. Fortunately, my husband came home about 10 minutes later & I said, "Here, YOU take care of her. She won't stop & I can't deal with it anymore!", and I left. I knew right then & there that I had made the right decision never to have kids, and I never babysat again after that. If that makes me a terrible person, so be it. I'd rather be that than to ruin my & a child's life by having babies I'm not emotionally & psychologically equipped to care for properly.

Logic said wait until you are established financially, in career, in a house. But a higher power - call it instinct, intuition, emotion, biological clock if you will - said otherwise.
......OK...i guess i was made without that clock..i certainly do not have an ounce of the feeling !
i love my pug, pugsley...i can shut him in a kennel...i sem to think i would be that woman on the news, "and when the police entered, the child was locked in a dog kennel".lololol
honestly, i have searched within there is nothing in me that gets thse"clock ticking" feelings
i am very content ..i know i am doing what i was put here to do.and it does not include kids.

If birth control pill were available, 100 years ago, half of us probably wouldn't be here.

When most of my friends became pregnant, it was by 'accident'.
(protection broke, missed taking the pill)

Of course most parents wouldn't tell their children that!

Originally Posted by zamora

Logic said wait until you are established financially, in career, in a house. But a higher power - call it instinct, intuition, emotion, biological clock if you will - said otherwise.
......OK...i guess i was made without that clock..i certainly do not have an ounce of the feeling !
i love my pug, pugsley...i can shut him in a kennel...i sem to think i would be that woman on the news, "and when the police entered, the child was locked in a dog kennel".lololol
honestly, i have searched within there is nothing in me that gets thse"clock ticking" feelings
i am very content ..i know i am doing what i was put here to do.and it does not include kids.

Exactly!! I have no maternal feelings or biological clock. On the other hand, I have very strong maternal instincts for any animal, so that's where I focus my caretaking needs.

Originally Posted by Mayliz

So, what did your co-worker say, Sonja?

Well, interestingly, it was a male coworker. I said "I'm really concerned about what my guests are going to do from the time I meet them to let them in the house until I get home. You know, Biscuit (dog) is 11 and grumpy, and doesn't like kids, and he's prone to snap at them"

His response was "Well I'm never bringing (insert grandbaby's name here) over to YOUR house, since you obviously hate kids so much. You should just relax and not worry about it, kids will be kids. Just put Biscuit outside or shut him up in a room or something." and on...and on... and a few things like "just wait until you have kids" thrown in there somewhere....

I later told him it irritate me to no end, and he apologized.

Originally Posted by naiyahayal

YES, as a parent, you SHOULD RESTRAIN them if they act up and have no respect for other children, adults, animals, or other people's space or possessions. YOU SHOULD TEACH them what is appropriate behavior and what is not appropriate BEFORE you take them 'OUT' -- whether it's outside to play or any other situation where there is interaction with others.

Just one of so many examples that enrage me: I am vending at an event, or with my BF in his booth. A mom comes along with babies in a stroller, blocking customers who are genuinely interested in buying, another one in the oven, and an undisciplined, screeching, out-of-control child. The child flips over every piece of jewelry on the table, attempts to slap the fragile hanging crystals, turns over the displays, and John is alarmed and (yes, in a loud and worried voice) , "hey, what are you doing, stop that!" The mom is righteous and indignant and YELLS at him, "DON'T YOU DARE TALK TO MY CHILD LIKE THAT". WHAT???????? ,m:: ARE YOU KIDDING ME, Adishakti? They should not be restrained? She is interfering with his making a living, preventing other people from seeing the merchandise, she has no intention of buying anything, and is using the table as entertainment for her kids who have no respect for anything or anybody. They are allowed -- not just to touch -- but to destroy someone else's things, and NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO STOP OR RESTRAIN THEM? That mom is not taking her kids to the park to diffuse their energy, she is letting them loose on other people -- EXCUSE ME? Sorry, Adi, but if that mom upstairs can't or won't take the time to be a good parent, why do the people living downstairs have to pay for it?

Let's back up the wagon here. There's a concrete difference between allowing your child to put their hand in boiling water or damage someone else's property versus jumping on a sofa and irritating the people below. I never suggested a parent not teach their children right from wrong, merely that I do not believe yanking your children around is an effective or respectful way to deal with things. A parent CAN be firm, AND fair.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with someone's terribly irresponsible parenting (or lack of), but I don't think your response to me here is very nice. It wasn't my child running amok.

My kids are not perfect, but they're pretty darn good. They don't purposely break apart other people's things, because they've learned to respect others. And that didn't take any physical restraint at all.

Along this line, when we have a large group over to our home, we specify quite clearly in the invitation: "No Children, our home isn't setup for them."

On the flip side of my rant, I do sometimes wish I had more of an inclination to have kids. I think maybe one day. But I sometimes feel like I'm looked at like an alien for not having already taken the plunge! Or that could just be my paranoid brain. And, I will fully admit to the "fear of children" phenomenon!

Originally Posted by Sonja2

Well, interestingly, it was a male coworker. I said "I'm really concerned about what my guests are going to do from the time I meet them to let them in the house until I get home. You know, Biscuit (dog) is 11 and grumpy, and doesn't like kids, and he's prone to snap at them"

His response was "Well I'm never bringing (insert grandbaby's name here) over to YOUR house, since you obviously hate kids so much. You should just relax and not worry about it, kids will be kids. Just put Biscuit outside or shut him up in a room or something." and on...and on... and a few things like "just wait until you have kids" thrown in there somewhere....

I later told him it irritate me to no end, and he apologized.

That's such an assy thing to say. That shows no sign of you disliking kids.

Adi, I think you're absolutely right and very reasonable. I bet your kids are a pleasure, too.

I do wish people wouldn't generalize their irritation with ill-behaved kids and irresponsible parents in this way. It's generalizing in the other direction -- everyone should have kids, all children are angels and blessings and sweetness and light -- that prompted the original "rant," I think. Neither one benefits anybody or changes anyone's mind. Why create even more hard feelings?

And Sonja -- I'd be ranting, too. I sympathize. I'm 40 and happily "coupled" for fifteen years with no kids. Might still happen, might not, but I am really tired of those who assume that having children is the only path to real adulthood and fulfillment and feel the need to tell me so. My family isn't after me to have any, fortunately, but my mother-in-law just can't fathom even the possibility that we might choose not to or might even not be able to. The societal pressure has made a difficult decision all the more difficult, and the meddling and lobbying (even from total strangers!) just stress me out.

Originally Posted by gothique

If birth control pill were available, 100 years ago, half of us probably wouldn't be here.

When most of my friends became pregnant, it was by 'accident'.
(protection broke, missed taking the pill)

Of course most parents wouldn't tell their children that!

Not just your friends, I fear.

I think most people get pregnant when they haven't been exactly putting it in their planner.

then well, "I guess it's time to have kids" Ready or not!

I forget who said it, but "Children are usually the result of sex."

I am guilty as well of not having maternal bones. Had my tubes tied long ago to avoid years of "contraceptive follies."

This sounds like something my grandfather (my husband's grandfather, actually, but both of mine are dead) would say.

At least he apologized. The whole "just wait until you have kids" is a default line. Just wait until you own a house. Just wait until you get old. Just wait until you have this or that problem. It's like people trying to get you to empathasize without actually putting any thought into what they're saying. Basically, it's the old I'm right and you're wrong because you've never experienced it.

Originally Posted by Adishakti

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with someone's terribly irresponsible parenting (or lack of), but I don't think your response to me here is very nice. It wasn't my child running amok.

My kids are not perfect, but they're pretty darn good. They don't purposely break apart other people's things, because they've learned to respect others. And that didn't take any physical restraint at all.

Adishakti, I know I sounded harsh and I do apologize for making it sound personal. I don't know your kids--I believe that you've taught them to treat others with respect. I was reacting to what I perceived as a variation on "kids will be kids". I agree that parents should spend time with their kids so that energy doesn't get bottled up. But if they DON'T -- either because they don't have the time (then I don't understand why they have kids, 'tho) or won't, I just don't understand why everyone else has to put up with the consequences. I understood (again, just my perception of your post, it's easy to misinterpret the written word sometimes) that you felt we should put up with bad behavior when the parents don't take responsibility. And by restraint, I meant someone has to tell them it's not right to act in a disrespectful, out of control way. I'm not suggesting someone beat them up. But if the child is being destructive or disrespectful to someone and the parent does not take action, I don't understand why the parent feels the person who has to suffer through the bad behavior doesn't even have the right to say "stop". And at least where I live, my experiences have been truly nightmarish. There is very rarely a day when I don't see and hear absolutely unacceptable public behavior in kids. If I raise my voice, throw something or act in an unacceptable manner as an adult, I WILL be told to leave a public place. Why shouldn't a child be held to the same standard? This is the usual answer I get: Because kids will be kids. It's the kids who are never told "no, you can't" that are the ones who turn over our wares, who talk back with no CONCEPT even of respect for anyone or anything.

My comments were not directed at you personally or your children, they were in reaction to the comment about "no restraints". I reread the post to make sure! I didn't in any way mean to insult you or attack you personally. I apologize if it came across that way. But I feel very, very strongly about the tolerance of intolerant behavior which is becoming more prevalent.

Originally Posted by zamora

Logic said wait until you are established financially, in career, in a house. But a higher power - call it instinct, intuition, emotion, biological clock if you will - said otherwise.
......OK...i guess i was made without that clock..i certainly do not have an ounce of the feeling !
i love my pug, pugsley...i can shut him in a kennel...i sem to think i would be that woman on the news, "and when the police entered, the child was locked in a dog kennel".lololol
honestly, i have searched within there is nothing in me that gets thse"clock ticking" feelings
i am very content ..i know i am doing what i was put here to do.and it does not include kids.

Just to be clear I was talking about me. I didn't mean for anyone to assume that I meant everyone should make the same choices as I/we did or even come to the same choice in the same way.

Children/no children. That's a personal decision and it's nobody else's business but the people involved.

Originally Posted by Mayliz

The whole "just wait until you have kids" is a default line. Just wait until you own a house. Just wait until you get old. Just wait until you have this or that problem. It's like people trying to get you to empathasize without actually putting any thought into what they're saying. Basically, it's the old I'm right and you're wrong because you've never experienced it.

Actually, I would say that if/when I ever use this line it's not when I am trying to prove I am right. More that I am trying to convey that things are not always what they seem no matter which side of the fence you are on.

I bet most people posting to this particular thread who are parents would admit that our perceptions of what it would like to be parents and how we were going to deal with parenthood is quite a bit different than how reality has worked out.

But just to stir the pot a bit (heh heh) I might add that the thing about being parents is that we have actually been on both sides of the fence whereas those who choose not to have children have only been on one side . . .