Thread: Shaabi versus Balady-what is the difference?

Ok, I have been researching music lately and have come across Shaabi references. I am familiar with Balady style, but I'm not sure what constitutes Shaabi-help me out, ya'll! I are confuzzed! I think it is more playful than balady which is more earthy? Is that right? what are some songs that are well known in the Shaabi genre? Thanks for the help! Jamie Lynn

Beledi is more traditional, old-school, folksy, countrified.

Shaabi is modern, urban.

Beledi is bluegrass, Shaabi is hip hop. OK, that's a bit extreme, but...

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Beledi is more traditional, old-school, folksy, countrified.

Shaabi is modern, urban.

Beledi is bluegrass, Shaabi is hip hop. OK, that's a bit extreme, but...

i think this describes it well!
I read somewhere that in shaabi they talk about things that wouldn't be appropriate for the folk music....
It reminds me of what guys would be saying if they were standing on the street corner and whistling at girls etc. lol
It seems to me also that shaabi has more of a modern beat where balady has mostly the balady rhythm, correct me if im wrong.

Originally Posted by mrsnj20

It seems to me also that shaabi has more of a modern beat where balady has mostly the balady rhythm, correct me if im wrong.

No, you'll hear a variety of rhythms in both of them. But sha'abi does tend to have a lot more synthesized instrumentation.

shaabi evolved out of baladi. the lyrics can be quite similar, about the people/country but with a pop/modern feel. the music is similar to western pop, often the songs have a strong beat and "party" feel. personally they make me want to shake my tush.

hakim, saad, and hoda are shaabi artists. saad calling himself the "prince of shaabi" and hoda naming her music "shaabi chic". so cute these lil' shaabi's are ;)

I've taken a workshop with Tito that taught a shaabi choreo but do any of you know of more references? Youtube, other instructors who "specialize" in this? My impression is that lyrics are really important and we sort of mime-d portions of the song (is that even a word?!) I could be wrong...maybe it doesn't even matter, but it definitely had a different feel to it

So the contemporary egyptian "pop" music is often Shaabi? And that's acceptable to dance bellydance to?(Only after one has found out what they are singing about I hope.)

Originally Posted by Safiyah

I but do any of you know of more references? Youtube, other instructors who "specialize" in this?

Tarik Sultan is big on Shabbi choreo. And when he teaches his workshops, he will translate the song lyrics.

Nilaja

Originally Posted by jamielynn

So the contemporary egyptian "pop" music is often Shaabi? And that's acceptable to dance bellydance to?(Only after one has found out what they are singing about I hope.)

Yes, and (depending on the lyrics) yes.

Some shaabi is political in nature, you wouldn't want to dance to that.

So is there a difference between pop and Shaabi? Is Shaabi just the more recent pop? I was under the impression that Shaabi was low-class urban music and often included sexual innuendos.

ETA this link: shaabi: Afropop Style -- Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, North Africa

and oooh, this link from DaVid.

Rhinestone Chronicles: Shaabi and Balady

Shaabi is a form of pop, but all pop isn't shaabi.

Hakim is shaabi (almost shaabi-lite). But Amr Diab isn't.

Like hip hop, you CAN say that it's considered low-class, it's urban, and often includes sexual innuendos. But (as with hip hop) it doesn't HAVE to include sexual innuendo -- and all music with sexual innuendo doesn't fall under it's umbrella.

It's impossible to 'get' different styles of music by analyzing or describing them. Can you write out the differences between rock and blues in a way that would make it easy for someone who wasn't familiar with them to tell them apart? Same instruments, the beats can overlap, some music crosses boundaries, musicians deliberately fuse genres. There are no hard-and-fast rules.

We want ME music to be simple, defined by something as easy to decipher as a specific rhythm. But it's as complicated as 'our' music. The various styles grow out of one another, they overlap, the musicians don't always want to sit nicely in their little boxes. They just want to make music.

The best way to learn what shaabi sounds like is to listen to a lot of it. Saad, Hoda and Hakim are the easiest to get hold of, I think.

I say all this because I'm still learning myself, and it's frustrating.

Thanks Lauren. btw, it was literally described as "low-class" to me by both a Moroccan friend and an Egyptian client. I gather that not everybody enjoys it so you have to be careful where you perform to it.

Originally Posted by nasila

Thanks Lauren. btw, it was literally described as "low-class" to me by both a Moroccan friend and an Egyptian client. I gather that not everybody enjoys it so you have to be careful where you perform to it.

Low class as in the way my parents felt about Elvis Presley, I'd say. Maybe better would be "not fit for polite company" in the same was some rap songs can make some westerners a little squeamish. I think the thrust (no pun intended) would be that the lyrics may be about things that, in an Arabic culture, would not be considered proper for polite conversation: physical love rather than the aesthetic or emotional, politics (similar there to Rai?), social issues, even, I've been told, drugs?

I know I was surprised at how many YouTube clips there are of choreos taught by people like Tito to Eshta Yaba (Mostofa Kamal), which -- on some thread, maybe on another board -- I read had to do with a sort of drug culture ("eshte" which is cream, I think, being slang for drugs?) Guess this is one where, like with so many rock songs, you can interpret it more ways than one? Here are a coupl of sites for that particular song:

Shems Belly Dance Student Resource Page (about half way down on the page)
and here
Eshta Yaba - Translation? - Belly Dance for Life! - tribe.net (where there is an interesting discussion on the song lyrics).

This is a link to Tito's interpretation:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khgm3QSfj1Q&feature=PlayList&p=B28D919DB7D 9B2D5&index=7]YouTube - Tito @ the Las Vegas IBDC 2007-4[/ame]

and another one:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc320B6-97U&feature=PlayList&p=B28D919DB7D9B2D5&index=5]YouTube - "Eshta"[/ame]

both seem pretty innocent . . .

On this topic, I wrote a little article about Middle Eastern music to help my students make good choices about what they decide to dance to. I put in general descriptions of Balady and Shaabi as part of it. It still needs some refining, (I just found a couple spelling errors I need to correct as well) but it helps give the general idea.

I wouldn't mind hearing some of your feedback, especially if you think I'm not really explaining things quite right. It isn't the most detailed reference on the subject, but I do think it can be helpful to those completely unfamiliar with this stuff.

Feel free to take a gander:

Shems Belly Dance Student Resource Page

and just because I build youtube playlist for everything, here is my Egyptian Shaabi playlist:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

And here is my Egyptian Baladi playlist:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

(these are incomplete and there is some overlap in the subject... but there you go...)

first time i ever read anything about dina it was in habibi magazine & was a review of the Cairo scene by shareen al safy. she describe then up & coming dina as a shaabi dancer.

i think shaabi is an urban take on beledi. it does seem to involve lip syncing & acting. the costuming should look more like a party dress.

if you watch early dina you *get* she is different from the other dancers of the time & there is a casual, party girl vib to her performances not a polished performance.

tinah

Shems, thank you for that article, it was very enlightening. That is the jist of what I was trying to figure out-the general breakdown of contemporary and classical arabic dance music.
One thing-Fatem Serehan is a Shaabi singer? I thought she was balady through and through-shows you what I know! Jamie Lynn

Is DaVid still around? Last time this came up he had a great way of explaining it all.

Originally Posted by jamielynn

Shems, thank you for that article, it was very enlightening. That is the jist of what I was trying to figure out-the general breakdown of contemporary and classical arabic dance music.
One thing-Fatem Serehan is a Shaabi singer? I thought she was balady through and through-shows you what I know! Jamie Lynn

Maybe she could be considered balady, I thought shaabi, but more old school shaabi.

Does anyone know any more Shaabi artists other than the ones already mentioned here? I love my Hakim and Saad but am always on the lookout for more! Shaabi rules!

C x

Originally Posted by kat

Low class as in the way my parents felt about Elvis Presley, I'd say. Maybe better would be "not fit for polite company" in the same was some rap songs can make some westerners a little squeamish. I think the thrust (no pun intended) would be that the lyrics may be about things that, in an Arabic culture, would not be considered proper for polite conversation: physical love rather than the aesthetic or emotional, politics (similar there to Rai?), social issues, even, I've been told, drugs?

Actually, because of the class awareness in Egypt, Shaabi IS considered low brow. The lyrics are not just improper for polite company, they are down right explicit, in some cases.

Another issue with Shaabi lyrics is that they are simple. Arabic artists -singers and poets alike- have always prided themselves on the intense, complicated lyric and music composition. The use of simplified, sometimes made up words, is insulting to the Arabic music connoisseur.

Originally Posted by kat

I know I was surprised at how many YouTube clips there are of choreos taught by people like Tito to Eshta Yaba (Mostofa Kamal), which -- on some thread, maybe on another board -- I read had to do with a sort of drug culture ("eshte" which is cream, I think, being slang for drugs?) Guess this is one where, like with so many rock songs, you can interpret it more ways than one? Here are a coupl of sites for that particular song:

This is a link to Tito's interpretation:
YouTube - Tito @ the Las Vegas IBDC 2007-4




both seem pretty innocent . . .

Actually Eshta is one of the most overt songs out there. Mustapha is clearly making direct references to the grooms sexual abilities ( or lack there of) and his brides wedding night expectations. He keeps it throughout the song. This is not shocking to most regular Egyptians, who are not shy about sex. Shaabi street weddings regularly tease the wedding couple in the most direct language.

I will say that within the confines of marriage sex is celebrated. It is still considered impolite to discuss sex so explicitly.

The reference to drugs is made in the movie, Eshta Yaba. Mustapha Kamil did this song in the movie and smoked pot before getting up to perform this song.

Incidentally, his character makes a huge deal about singing this kind of music as he did not want to sell out and give up his art to sing Shaabi.

I for one, really enjoy Shaabi music, but it is much lighter fare than Abdel Wahab, for instance.

Originally Posted by ukcaasi

Does anyone know any more Shaabi artists other than the ones already mentioned here? I love my Hakim and Saad but am always on the lookout for more! Shaabi rules!

C x

check out Esam Karika and Mostafa Kamal

Baladi is your mama's music. Shaabi is what you don't want her to know you listen to.

Originally Posted by shems

I wouldn't mind hearing some of your feedback, especially if you think I'm not really explaining things quite right. It isn't the most detailed reference on the subject, but I do think it can be helpful to those completely unfamiliar with this stuff.

I liked your article Shems. I liked that you made it clear that the context of the lyrics help determine if a song is Shaaby or not. Another thing I want to point out though is that you mention how Egyptian Shaaby is sung in Egyptian colloquial, and although this is true, bear in mind that many other non-shaaby songs are also often sung in Egyptian Colloquial. A lot of Egyptian pop/Arabic pop songs, just like the movies, are done in Egyptian Colloquail, no matter if it is an Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian, or other artist.

And being someone that regularly goes to Egypt to buy music I must add that MOST Egyptian pop is NOT considered shaaby.

And although we don't realize this here but most Egyptians certainly don't classify their music as much as we try to. It cracks me up really. I mentioned shaaby to many of them (some living here (US) some living in Egypt) and they don't know what I mean. They just know what they like and what they don't.

And personally I want to add that if we are going to classify shaaby I think it would be more PC to refer to Shaaby as for the commmon people as opposed to saying it is low class. Not that the people in Egypt are thinking about it much, but for me these are my friends and I don't like to see that people look at them as being low class. They might be poor but have a lot of class!!

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

I liked your article Shems. I liked that you made it clear that the context of the lyrics help determine if a song is Shaaby or not. Another thing I want to point out though is that you mention how Egyptian Shaaby is sung in Egyptian colloquial, and although this is true, bear in mind that many other non-shaaby songs are also often sung in Egyptian Colloquial. A lot of Egyptian pop/Arabic pop songs, just like the movies, are done in Egyptian Colloquial, no matter if it is an Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian, or other artist.

You're right, of course. This is because the Egyptian Dialect is the most widely understood dialect in Arabic.

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

And being someone that regularly goes to Egypt to buy music I must add that MOST Egyptian pop is NOT considered shaaby.

And although we don't realize this here but most Egyptians certainly don't classify their music as much as we try to. It cracks me up really. I mentioned shaaby to many of them (some living here (US) some living in Egypt) and they don't know what I mean. They just know what they like and what they don't.

And personally I want to add that if we are going to classify shaaby I think it would be more PC to refer to Shaaby as for the commmon people as opposed to saying it is low class. Not that the people in Egypt are thinking about it much, but for me these are my friends and I don't like to see that people look at them as being low class. They might be poor but have a lot of class!!

Both good points. Everyday Egyptians may not spend as much time discussing the minutiae of dance styles, but as an Egyptian who also belly dances- serious hobbiest- I do spend a lot of my time having these kinds of musings. ..g.:

I appreciate what you mention about your friends. I only use the class terminology because it is so widely used at home. It is not usually intended with malice or ill will. Even Egyptians from humble origins use these terms. The term bei'a is used frequently with items/people considered low class.

There is, unfortunately, a lot of class awareness and bias in Egypt. Interestingly, we- at least the people I know- are not mean spirited about it.

Originally Posted by princessisabella

I appreciate what you mention about your friends. I only use the class terminology because it is so widely used at home. It is not usually intended with malice or ill will. Even Egyptians from humble origins use these terms. The term bei'a is used frequently with items/people considered low class.

There is, unfortunately, a lot of class awareness and bias in Egypt. Interestingly, we- at least the people I know- are not mean spirited about it.

That explains a lot. Thanks for that input! :)

Originally Posted by princessisabella

I appreciate what you mention about your friends. I only use the class terminology because it is so widely used at home. It is not usually intended with malice or ill will. Even Egyptians from humble origins use these terms. The term bei'a is used frequently with items/people considered low class.

There is, unfortunately, a lot of class awareness and bias in Egypt. Interestingly, we- at least the people I know- are not mean spirited about it.

Yeah I know you don't mean it in any kind of demeaning way towards Egyptians, and they don't see it this way and I appreciate your use of proper terminology. But the term "low-class" itself can have different usages in different cultures, and that is why I am careful how I use it when referring to a different culture. Here in the US it can have a negative connotation because we often don't use it to refer to people of lower socio-economic class, but it is often used with other nouns such as "low-class whore," "low-class thief," etc. And I certainly don't want people to get those kinds of images in their heads about people in Egypt. You know how people are, even if you explain it their association with a word is so strong it is difficult to get them to see it a different way sometimes. So I avoid any possible negative associations people might make and use the term "common people" and find this 'safer' or more 'politically correct' so to speak.

If you want hardcore shaabi check out Shaaban, not really dancable, but shaabi.

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

Yeah I know you don't mean it in any kind of demeaning way towards Egyptians, and they don't see it this way and I appreciate your use of proper terminology. But the term "low-class" itself can have different usages in different cultures, and that is why I am careful how I use it when referring to a different culture. Here in the US it can have a negative connotation because we often don't use it to refer to people of lower socio-economic class, but it is often used with other nouns such as "low-class whore," "low-class thief," etc. And I certainly don't want people to get those kinds of images in their heads about people in Egypt. You know how people are, even if you explain it their association with a word is so strong it is difficult to get them to see it a different way sometimes. So I avoid any possible negative associations people might make and use the term "common people" and find this 'safer' or more 'politically correct' so to speak.

I hear you. I do appreciate the sentiment, but we're just not that hung up on terminology. Political correctness is a Western trait, I presume. I grew up back home in Egypt, for the most part, so the associations with the term low-class do not resonate with me.

Originally Posted by nasila

That explains a lot. Thanks for that input! :)

You're welcome!

Originally Posted by jamielynn

Ok, I have been researching music lately and have come across Shaabi references. I am familiar with Balady style, but I'm not sure what constitutes Shaabi-help me out, ya'll! I are confuzzed! I think it is more playful than balady which is more earthy? Is that right? what are some songs that are well known in the Shaabi genre? Thanks for the help! Jamie Lynn

I feel Shaabi is like street dancing. It's earthy and gutsy with a strong beat and the lyrical content is mostly political. Baladi is like the blues of bellydance for me. Soulful, expressive, gentle and strong, soft and powerful. It comes from inside and from the self. No two people should dance baladi the same way.

Originally Posted by elljay

Is DaVid still around? Last time this came up he had a great way of explaining it all.

There is a difference between:
Balady is traditional folk songs with socially, culturally accepted lyrics reflecting the identity of the culture and people. (kind of like country music type lyrics)

Jeel = "modern pop"...the Egyptian version of "my milkshake" would fit in here.

Shaabi = "traditional pop" the Egyptian version of Elvis (type of lyrics and "social acceptance"), the Beatles (social acceptance) and bluegrass (the sound and type of lyrics)

I think because of the several meanings of Balady and Shaabi - people tend to confuse them with each other both the words and the meanings.

In this context:
Balady - traditional folk music and lyrics and vocal art
Shaabi - folky pop music and vocal art, not so traditional lyrics

"Pop" is therefore a category separate from these two. The same singers will sing Balady, Shaabi AND pop (look at Hakim and Saad). Balady songs do get sung in Shaabi style, Shaabi songs do not get sung in Balady style.

Pop essentially means popular or popularized or widely liked.... it's not necessarily a category of it's own in every country/region like here in the US and Europe. Pop is also relative to each country and region.

What is considered Balady and what is considered Shaabi lyrics will change over time.

When Oum K became famous and set a new standard of "educated" and soulful vocal art (Tarab) and high poetry presented through vocal art - she also defined what was considered the opposite....commonly styled vocalization and common lyrics...Interestingly enough, the Tarab in her voice came from singing religious lyrics in her childhood and youth.

Who do we look at for that standard today? Oum K is considered "old" by the younger generation...And what was considered "common" and "new" back then is considered "folk" or "classic" now....Where as Ana Fi Intizarak was the contrast to Tahtil Shibbak or Arkeb El Hantour back then, now the contrast is between Hakim or Kazem El-Saher (old) and Saad El Sughayyar or Marwa (new).