Thread: music translation services

music translation/transliteration from turkish or arabic into english..email me belly_dancer@rogers.com ;)

turkish:
$15 for the first page
$10 for any additional page of translation

arabic:
$20 for the first page
$10 for any additional page

Translations take ussually a few weeks to complete (we have alot of other things going on at once) so please, allow us enough time :)

TO POST ONLINE: if you want permission to publish the songs in any medium (such as your own website) it will cost $40 on top of the fee for the translation. You must also give credit for the translation to myself and my guy (such as: Translation by Eva (aka Aasiyah) and Sammy, can be reached at belly_dancer@rogers.com)

We retain full rights to the translations - meaning we reserve the right to resell them. If you want to purchase an already done translation the cost is $10.

Ive decided to cut persian since theres no requests for it.

so, a short song 3-4 mins will ussually take only a page worth of translation, but a classic om kolthom song which may be an hour long will cost more - cus it takes sooo much longer to do, were not making a real profit here (any song takes at least 45 mins to complete and I really want to help out the dance community, but we dont want to waste our time either)!

Thanks!!

Someone give me a clue here (or sorry for my ignorance), but doesn't Om Kalthoum generally repeat most of the lyrics in her songs anyway? What do you do other than translate what she is saying? Why does it take nine pages to translate a songs lyrics?

Originally Posted by jasani

Someone give me a clue here (or sorry for my ignorance), but doesn't Om Kalthoum generally repeat most of the lyrics in her songs anyway? What do you do other than translate what she is saying? Why does it take nine pages to translate a songs lyrics?

If translation were simply about changing the words from one language to the other, the simple computer translations programs would be able to handle it.

I can't speak for the original poster, or Turkish/Arabic translation, but a small chunk of my job is translating from Japanese to English. I know that idioms, context, words that have falled from regular use, terms that work on two levels (such as aluding to well known texts) and the desire to have something that works lyrically/in context all eat time.

I assume that aasiyah, as a dancer, is trying to make translations that are easy to contextually understand and feel/grasp as songs....and thus the length/time it takes. I trust her judgement of what it takes and how much she should charge. Often people expect that language translation is fairly easy once you know the language, but the more you know, the more complicated the art side of it gets.

Originally Posted by ozma

Often people expect that language translation is fairly easy once you know the language, but the more you know, the more complicated the art side of it gets.

totally second this.
i translate english/french all the time and people expect it to be easy and quick... not the case. especially when you have to translate the sense of an expression which doesn't exist in the language you're translating to..
Poetry, which is what lots of lyrics are, is extremely hard to translate, considering how precise the words are, all the underlying possible meanings, as well as playing on words...

Originally Posted by jasani

Someone give me a clue here (or sorry for my ignorance), but doesn't Om Kalthoum generally repeat most of the lyrics in her songs anyway? What do you do other than translate what she is saying? Why does it take nine pages to translate a songs lyrics?

Hi Jasani! I've done translations from German and French into English, so maybe I can help with a perspective.

First, the process of transcribing lyrics from listening to paper is time-consuming. When I have transcribed English-language lyrics from a CD to my computer, I have found that if the singer's diction is good, it takes me about 2-3 times as much time as the length of a song. So, for a 5-minute song, it takes me 10-15 minutes just to transcribe the lyrics as is, unchanged. Even though I'm 90-words-a-minute typist, it's not always possible to keep up with the pace of the music. For example, I often find that I have to go back to a certain section of the music, rewind, and listen to it again, maybe as much as 3-4 times, due to the singer's voice being temporarily drowned out by the instruments or due to a momentary lapse in diction.

Now, I don't know whether aasiyah and her boyfriend are delivering both the transliterated Arabic lyrics and the translation, or just the translation, but if they're delivering the transliteration that means that an effort needs to be made to convert the words from the original Arabic into the Roman alphabet in a way that will help someone who doesn't read Arabic alphabet figure out what the words are in the original source language. Even if the original song has a lot of repetition, it takes time to do all that copying and pasting. So if they're doing transliterations, the effort required by those is not trivial.

I concur with what others have said that a translation is not trivial to do. They've already said it well, so I won't repeat it. When I took college courses in translations, it was amazing how much time it took to think about what the words said in the source language, and then pick just the right words to convey the nuances in the target language. And once again, even if the music is repetitious, the copying and pasting is time-consuming and tedious.

Some perspective on pricing: Aasiyah is still offering a tremendous bargain. As someone who makes a living at this, for poetry, song lyrics, or anything similarly literary I'd be charging hourly at $50 per hour, with a one-hour minimum charge, and you'd also be paying that for any time I spent on transcription/transliteration. More conventional commercial texts generally start at 13 cents per English word in the widely-used European languages, also with a $50 minimum, and the per-word rate goes up based on how specialized the material is and how fast a turnaround is required. Expect that to at least double if you go through a translation company rather than working directly with an individual. Professional Arabic and Turkish (and Japanese) translators can generally charge more per word/hour, at least in the US and Canada, because there are far fewer people with the requisite skills and qualifications and demand far outstrips supply in some fields. Linguistic ability and a good general education are entry-level requirements, but really they're just the tip of the iceberg.

For Aasiyah this is clearly a labor of love, but as others have outlined above, it's also one hell of a lot of work. Please respect that.

thank you for explaining that so much better than I could have ladies.

oh for those who are wondering, yes he does transliteration from arabic to latin alphabet - at least he did it for the laylat hob translation above mentioned :)

Thank you, ladies, for clearing that up for me. I have a better understanding of what it takes to be a translator... and after reading my post again, I can see how some would take offense to the questions I posed - for that I'm sorry Aasiyah, didn't mean it any dis-respect.

Even the new rates are a really, really great price ....... I agree, it may take less time to translate word-for-word, but you could end up with something nonsensical. When I was a court reporter, I often had to bite my tongue when recording a translator's verbatim translations in Russian or German.....I knew it didn't translate correctly idiomatically, but it was my job to record what was said and I had no control. The translators were working under the pressure of instant translation, of course, but so much of the essence of the witness' testimony was lost or distorted. Idiomatic translation is very time-consuming and requires more than a basic knowledge of a language, especially literature, music, poetry ..... Jasani, I'm thinking your gut reaction was just that everything in the world now seems to go up in price -- we all seem to have a knee-jerk reaction when the cost of ANYTHING goes up! But honestly, this is an incredibly low price, trust me.....

I'm trying so hard to sit on my hands here, but I just have to say this:

If it's word for word, it ain't translation (the written version) or interpreting (the oral version). It's code-switching, and what you get when you're done isn't meaningful language -- it's a string of words. That's why the "translation" that you get out of Babelfish has as much in common with actual translation as a pile of mismatched beads, velvet, and chiffon does with a Bella. It's probably better than nothing if you're naked, but you wouldn't ever mistake it for a functioning costume.

Think about it just in terms of one language for a moment, leaving aside the idea of translation. If you think about where meaning resides in your own language, it's not the individual words that create it -- we understand language in "meaning units," groups of words (that is, phrases or sentences) that together mean things. Hit a sentence with a hammer and break it up into individual, unconnected words and you take away its meaning altogether. Leave the words connected in larger chunks and those chunks tell you a story. That's why the process of translation isn't "decode a word, decode another word, decode another word," and so on and so on. On its most basic level, the process is "read it in the source language, understand it, write it in the target language," or "hear it in source, understand it, say it in target" for interpreting. Whatever language you're working in -- whether you're translating or whether you're just reading or listening in your own native language -- if you're operating just on the level of individual words, you're not actually understanding the language. (Try it, you'll see.)

The work is in the last two steps: understanding what the source text means (and suggests, and implies, and echoes, and alludes to, and references, and contrasts with and ...) and conveying as much of that meaning (and suggestion and implication and ...) as possible in the target language. If the result doesn't make sense, there was a breakdown in at least one of those three basic steps: you didn't read/hear it correctly, you didn't understand it correctly, or you didn't write/say it correctly. The net result is that you didn't actually translate anything because no meaning was conveyed.

See what I mean?

That is why really good translation is so hard to come by. I know a lot of BDers who have gotten translations from Arabic-speaking friends and they just don't make much sense, because the Arabic speaker's facility with English is not brilliant.

Ironically, though, I have a translation of Enta Omri that my friend's student did for homework once - it is her favourite song and she was thrilled to do it - and even though the English is not quite right it makes more sense, the way she wrote it, than half the translations I've seen out there of a lot of songs.

This sort of thread is why I love bhuz. People ask questions that everyone is perhaps thinking, you leave with more understanding than you arrived with, and it seems to chime with your own internal logic.

Originally Posted by Zana

I'm trying so hard to sit on my hands here, but I just have to say this:

If it's word for word, it ain't translation (the written version) or interpreting (the oral version). It's code-switching, and what you get when you're done isn't meaningful language -- it's a string of words. That's why the "translation" that you get out of Babelfish has as much in common with actual translation as a pile of mismatched beads, velvet, and chiffon does with a Bella. It's probably better than nothing if you're naked, but you wouldn't ever mistake it for a functioning costume.

Think about it just in terms of one language for a moment, leaving aside the idea of translation. If you think about where meaning resides in your own language, it's not the individual words that create it -- we understand language in "meaning units," groups of words (that is, phrases or sentences) that together mean things. Hit a sentence with a hammer and break it up into individual, unconnected words and you take away its meaning altogether. Leave the words connected in larger chunks and those chunks tell you a story. That's why the process of translation isn't "decode a word, decode another word, decode another word," and so on and so on. On its most basic level, the process is "read it in the source language, understand it, write it in the target language," or "hear it in source, understand it, say it in target" for interpreting. Whatever language you're working in -- whether you're translating or whether you're just reading or listening in your own native language -- if you're operating just on the level of individual words, you're not actually understanding the language. (Try it, you'll see.)

The work is in the last two steps: understanding what the source text means (and suggests, and implies, and echoes, and alludes to, and references, and contrasts with and ...) and conveying as much of that meaning (and suggestion and implication and ...) as possible in the target language. If the result doesn't make sense, there was a breakdown in at least one of those three basic steps: you didn't read/hear it correctly, you didn't understand it correctly, or you didn't write/say it correctly. The net result is that you didn't actually translate anything because no meaning was conveyed.

See what I mean?

Zana, this is a perfect description of the translation process. It needs a well-trained brain, and can't be done by machine! That's why I never worried about job security when I was working as a translator. I was also researching machine translation for the government, but there was no machine translation that could beat even a modestly talented trained linguist.

By the way, I'm very happy with the translation I received for Kolo Yoross. I think a pop song is even harder than Um Kulsoum because the words don't necessarily make sense. Oftentimes nonsense words are strung together because of the way they sound.

:) im glad you liked it bintbeled, my guy was so worried about that one cus of the start of the song - hes kept repeating himself " make sure you tell her that this is the style of the song and thats why - its so street"

haha -- tell your guy that I wasn't expecting Abdel Halim Hafez!

ok i added some more details to my original pricing posts re: reselling already translated songs, and posting on websites since I have been getting requests for already done translations, etc.

Ps: sorry I have to keep adding details - I;m learning the best way to do this by trial and error, obviously :)

Originally Posted by aasiyah

ok i added some more details to my original pricing posts re: reselling already translated songs, and posting on websites since I have been getting requests for already done translations, etc.

Aasiyah, maybe you could mention which songs have been translated? Some of us might want to buy a copy of the lyrics.

Originally Posted by bintbeled

Aasiyah, maybe you could mention which songs have been translated? Some of us might want to buy a copy of the lyrics.

I was just going to ask this! I would also love to see a list of what is already available.

so far I have:

Yalla Korros By Hakim
Laylat Hob By Om Koulthom
Uskudara Gideriken by Ertha Kitt
Penceresi Yolla Karsi By Brenda McCrimmon
Yuksek Yuksek Tepeler by unknown (turkish folk song)
Kil Oldum by Tarkan
Seni Sevdim Yine Sevecem by John Bilezikjian
Sallasana Mendilini by unknown
Yine Sensiz By Tarkan

umm I think that's it for now!!

Thanks for the list!

And one other question. Would the translation come with the original lyrics in Arabic, or only with a translation/transliteration?

translation /transliteration only unless we can find the original lyrics written in arabic

Thanks for the info!

bump

Just want to recommend the services of Aasiyah and her fella. I had two songs translated from Arabic to English and am really pleased with the results. Thanks Aasiyah!

just bumping this cus im super bored lately..isnt anyone listening to turkish these days?

Aasiyah, cool service. I have a couple of questions.

Do you give a more elaborate explanation of typical linguistic/cultural expressions that are used if there is a phrase or a fable used in the lyrics? Do you provide the English "equivalent"?

Do you give the dialect characteristics of the lyrics in a song? or certain words used in a song?

Also, you have no rate listed in regard to distribution on paper in classes/workshops? ;) I know you cant control that, but still... a rate would be good for those that want to stay on the right side of integrity and morals and ethics.

Just curious :) I'm glad someone is providing this service to the dance public...now get your website up, girl :)))

hi david, yes its not a word for word literal translation. i will give you the meaning of the expression, not just the meaning of each word.

as for the dialect characteristics, if you want we can. ussually its pretty obvious which dialect is used in arabic (ex if its egyptian, leb, palestinian or syrian my bf has no problem at all with it but it its gulf arabic there are some words he stumbles on sometimes)
as for turkish - there are no dialect differences. i might still be able to give you info on what area of turkey the song originates from due to musical differences though.

oh as for use in class..go ahead..i dont mind. just give me credit :)