Thread: Oum Kalthoum...I really WANT to like her...

But I can't seem to get into the music at all!! Maybe it's the versions I have--crackly sounding, live recordings with people whooting and hollering in the background.. I got these version off of iTunes after making a vow to myself to delve deeper into the ME classics.

Can someone suggest either

1. re-done versions (I have a version of Enta Omri already, but Hossam Ramzy)
2. albums that are NOT live

My favorite re-done versions are on Mahmoud Fadl's Umm Kalthum 7000 CD (I know you can download or listen to long snippets on calabashmusic.com, maybe e-music or itunes, I don't know). They are rich and lush and have a wonderfully throaty female vocalist.

Not The Woman herself, but really nice versions of her music.

Thanks for the tip, I've just bought it from itunes.

I hope you like it! Let me know.

You could check out youtube, to get a better sense of the overall atmosphere at these live recordings? It helped me.

As for good recordings, my favorite is the Mohammed Ali Ensemble, they have CD called Music of the Diva, and they have (on another CD) a most wonderful recording of Inta Omri.

Oh, and then there is Omar Khorshid, who has an album a Tribute to Oum Kalthoum, which is more modernized/electronified. It may not be everybody's cuppa, but I am quite fond of it.

Are you looking for instrumental or vocal versions of her songs?

A serendipitous story;

These week I’ve been watching a dvd of Orit Maftsir dancing to a fantastic version of Enta Omri and I so WANT that music….how to find it? I could email Orit but I’ve already done that several times this month already….one more email and I’d feel like a (music) stalker!!

I just switched on the computer to send an email to a dance friend (also a good friend of Orit)….maybe she knows the version I’m looking for. But I thought I’d first check out Bhuz for new topics (my daily addiction).

Saw this thread, listened to the Enta Omri music file on iTunes…it’s the music I was looking for!!! Howzat for coincidence!!

For instrumentals, I really love the Cairo Orchestra's Tribute to Om Kalthoum.

Another suggestion I would make, if you haven't already seen it, is to get the DVD Umm Kulthum: The Voice of Egypt. Her songs resonate so much more when you can get a real feel for her context as an artist and icon of the ME.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

But I can't seem to get into the music at all!!

Even though you want to like Umm Kalthoum, there's no law that says you have to. Rather than make yourself feel bad because you're not getting whatever you think you're supposed to out of her singing, why not just back away and return to her later? Maybe if you spend some time listening to other major figures in Arabic music, she'll sound different to you down the road...or maybe you'll find that she's never your favorite. Contrary to popular notion, not every Arab loves her, and particularly when it comes to the younger generation, some of them would rather put a metal pan on their heads and bang on it with a spoon until they go deaf than listen to her records.

Keep your mind open, but listen to and dance to what you love. Find singers who resonate with you and pay attention to what they do, how they sing, how the music flows, and look for those things in the singers you don't feel as strong an affinity for. Give your appreciation of the music time and space to grow naturally, and accept that you'll never love everything equally.

The bottom line is that if your heart isn't connecting with the music, you can't fake the love, and it will show in your dance. Personally, I'd rather see a dancer have an emotional connection and really pull a great performance out of a piece of pop garbage by Haifa Wehbe than endure some well-intentioned dancer trying to prove her worth by hopelessly and soullessly flailing through an Umm Kalthoum classic. Good dancing is good dancing--her recordings are not a magical benchmark that validates a dancer and endows her with greatiness.

Maybe it's the versions I have--crackly sounding, live recordings with people whooting and hollering in the background.. I got these version off of iTunes after making a vow to myself to delve deeper into the ME classics.

Can someone suggest either

1. re-done versions (I have a version of Enta Omri already, but Hossam Ramzy)
2. albums that are NOT live

Umm Kalthoum's live performances are what makes her who she is (was). Trying to avoid the crowd's enjoyment of her singing or skipping the lyrics to go for shorter instrumental versions of the songs misses the point of why she's so beloved. Instead of taking this approach, I think you'd be better off looking for translations of the lyrics of the songs!

Torbeau, that's a fantastic post!

Originally Posted by laura 2

For instrumentals, I really love the Cairo Orchestra's Tribute to Om Kalthoum.

Another suggestion I would make, if you haven't already seen it, is to get the DVD Umm Kulthum: The Voice of Egypt. Her songs resonate so much m
ore when you can get a real feel for her context as an artist and icon of the ME.

Ditto recommends from me. I also Strongly recommend The Zamalek Musicians Tribute to Um Kulthum. It's my favorite.

The thing that helped me learn to like Oum Kalthoum was the realization that there were certain songs of hers that I'd already heard the instrumental portions of and liked. For example, I've always loved the song Leilet Hob. So I focused first on songs that I already knew I liked, before I started exploring songs that were new to me.

I would suggest also looking at Yasmina Ramzy's CD's. In 2007, at the Intl Bellydance Conference of Canada, her dance company did a performance to Enta Omri that mesmerized me. I've always thought of that particular song as ok but not one of my favorites, but Arabesque's performance really captivated me. Yasmina's band has a female vocalist whose powerful, beautiful voice so perfectly captured the spirit of Oum Kalthoum that chills ran down my spine as I sat in the audience. Even today, a year and a half later, the memory of that performance still has the power to inspire me. Although the band played live on stage for that performance, I think they have a recording of it on one of the Asala music CD's that Yasmina sells. Yasmina's choreography also suited it perfectly, if you should be interested in seeing it on DVD.

But I'll also echo what Tourbeau said. Maybe you're at a point in your dance journey where your taste in music lies elsewhere. For example, I'd rather dance to Nibtidi Mneen al-Hikaya by Abdel Halim Hafez than to many of the Oum Kalthoum songs I have in my collection. It's all good.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

My favorite re-done versions are on Mahmoud Fadl's Umm Kalthum 7000 CD (I know you can download or listen to long snippets on calabashmusic.com, maybe e-music or itunes, I don't know). They are rich and lush and have a wonderfully throaty female vocalist.

Not The Woman herself, but really nice versions of her music.

Thank you, Lauren--I plan to look it up this evening!

I have ventured into Oum Kalthoum territory just in the past year or so. It has gone hand-in-hand with my interest in the emotional side to the music and my dancing. I watched "A Voice Like Egypt" (as mentioned by Laura) first. Next, Karim Nagi's workshop on musicality, working with Fakkarouni, really inspired me. All along I had been watching the clips of the amazing Orit dancing to many Oum Kalthoum songs - wow. Getting to see her teach and perform live in Orlando this summer was wonderful.

Whether or not you connect with her music, I think it's important to become knowledgeable about her and her music, which it sounds like you've been doing. Even Robert Plant, in "The Rough Guide to Led Zeppelin", is said to love Oum Kalthoum's music!

Download info for Amazon, eMusic, and iTunes for the album Lauren recommended: Umm Kalthum 7000

Cairo Orchestra album, as mentioned by Laura: A Tribute to Om Kalsoum

Nice article and links on NPR: Umm Kulthum: The Voice of Egypt : NPR Music

If you subscribe to Netflix, they have the DVD mentioned above. Here it is on Amazon: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K0YG8M?ie=UTF8&tag=amysfavorit-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeAS IN=B000K0YG8M">Umm Kulthum: A Voice Like Egypt</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=amysfavorit-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B000K0YG8M" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;]Amazon.com: Umm Kulthum: A Voice Like Egypt: Michal Goldman: Movies & TV[/ame]

Oooh, thanks Kiyaana for the NPR link!

watching The Voice of Egypt...i think that was the title and it's available through Netflix...helped me love this song even more and actually get it because it had context


ahhhi should have read the above posts more...ohhh well i'm leaving mine anyway.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Even though you want to like Umm Kalthoum, there's no law that says you have to. Rather than make yourself feel bad because you're not getting whatever you think you're supposed to out of her singing, why not just back away and return to her later? Maybe if you spend some time listening to other major figures in Arabic music, she'll sound different to you down the road...or maybe you'll find that she's never your favorite. Contrary to popular notion, not every Arab loves her, and particularly when it comes to the younger generation, some of them would rather put a metal pan on their heads and bang on it with a spoon until they go deaf than listen to her records.

Keep your mind open, but listen to and dance to what you love. Find singers who resonate with you and pay attention to what they do, how they sing, how the music flows, and look for those things in the singers you don't feel as strong an affinity for. Give your appreciation of the music time and space to grow naturally, and accept that you'll never love everything equally.

The bottom line is that if your heart isn't connecting with the music, you can't fake the love, and it will show in your dance. Personally, I'd rather see a dancer have an emotional connection and really pull a great performance out of a piece of pop garbage by Haifa Wehbe than endure some well-intentioned dancer trying to prove her worth by hopelessly and soullessly flailing through an Umm Kalthoum classic. Good dancing is good dancing--her recordings are not a magical benchmark that validates a dancer and endows her with greatiness.



Umm Kalthoum's live performances are what makes her who she is (was). Trying to avoid the crowd's enjoyment of her singing or skipping the lyrics to go for shorter instrumental versions of the songs misses the point of why she's so beloved. Instead of taking this approach, I think you'd be better off looking for translations of the lyrics of the songs!

Wonderfully said!!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Umm Kalthoum's live performances are what makes her who she is (was). Trying to avoid the crowd's enjoyment of her singing or skipping the lyrics to go for shorter instrumental versions of the songs misses the point of why she's so beloved. Instead of taking this approach, I think you'd be better off looking for translations of the lyrics of the songs!

I second reading translations of Um Kalthoum, those lyrics will take your breath away. Here's a great site for Um Kalthoum translations - Arabic Song Lyrics and Translation: Om Kalthoum

I am in love and listening to Om Kalthoum makes me crazy, to know what she is saying in each song, I understand when the crowd cheers and I cheer too. You start to feel that emotion and it makes more sense.

From Enta Omri -
The sweet nights and the desire and the love
For so long my heart carried them for you
Taste love with me
Taste love with love
From the feeling of my heart whose desire extended to your feeling
Give me your eyes they reflect my eyes in their world
Give me your hands their touch calms my hands
Oh my darling come on forget about that which has passed us

Originally Posted by phillyraqs

I second reading translations of Um Kalthoum, those lyrics will take your breath away. Here's a great site for Um Kalthoum translations -

There are also lyrics for some of her songs on my web site at Translations to Song Lyrics from the Middle East and North Africa

I have to admit that I am not particularly fond of her music even though I know she is a classic. I do agree that she is an original. But I also know that I have changed my views a lot over the years on ME music in general and have come to love a lot of things I didn't in the past. I think one day I will love her music too - I'm going to let it come naturally as I learn more and more about the fantastic layers of ME music.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

The bottom line is that if your heart isn't connecting with the music, you can't fake the love, and it will show in your dance. Personally, I'd rather see a dancer have an emotional connection and really pull a great performance out of a piece of pop garbage by Haifa Wehbe than endure some well-intentioned dancer trying to prove her worth by hopelessly and soullessly flailing through an Umm Kalthoum classic. Good dancing is good dancing--her recordings are not a magical benchmark that validates a dancer and endows her with greatiness.

thank you!

was just gonna add - don't feel like you *have* to like her, it's ok! I don't know how long you've been dancing, but I think Om Kalthoum is often an acquired taste, and one that usually creeps up on you without effort. One certainly doesn't have to force it. And her music may not ever be to your taste, and that's ok too. Good advice about educating yourself about her work, though. But doesn't mean you have to or will fall in love.

Originally Posted by phillyraqs

I am in love

Congratulations!

The deep infatuation stage of love that makes your heart surge with song lyrics is probably life's greatest experience.

You dont have to like Um Khalsoum but realize that those old recordings are the best lesson in understanding the structure of Arabic music (even when you only dance to the insturmentalized snipits of her songs).

It also shows you the parts of the music that are important. When the audience whoops and hollers at a certain point, then you know that that is a moment in the music that you as a dancer can capitalize on. This is the point that drives the Arabic audience wild!! Even if you are not dancing for Arabs, its good information that will make you a better dancer!!

I always suggest to my students that they get a copy of these old recordings to study:)

I found that every time I heard a new instrumental piece that was a)too hard for me and b) so delicious, it was an Om Khalsoum number. So I determined that I must like OK. I was a bit shocked the first time I heard her sing because until that point, the only female Arabic singing I'd heard was more in the Warda and even Natasha Atlas line - a higher, sweeter voice - whereas OK can actually sound like a man sometimes, her voice is so deep. For me coming to like her was a mixture of loving many of the songs as instrumentals, loving the lyrics in translation, and, well, practice. I decided I had to like her so I worked at it! I don't love her but I recognise her importance and love the emotionality in those songs. There are versions of songs of hers that I think are by other singers - similar but not quite as syrupy deep - that I really enjoy now.

I have a couple of CDs of non-dance OK music, along with one that is vintage vocal recordings of female singers of her time and earlier (an entire culture of women with deep and creaky voices, who'd have thought?) and listening to them is helping me get a more nuanced understanding of the music.

There are some Arabs who actually don't like Oum Kalthoum. Not many but some! Usually the criticism you hear from her detractors is that her music is depressing and there's enough depressing things happen in the Middle East already!

Don't feel bad. You're not the only one :)

Edward Said didn't like her singing, which he cheerfully admits in his article about Tahia Carioca (the first one).

I know one Arabic woman who says that as far as she is concerned the songs are beautiful but they go on far too long, and who has the time for them? She also said that listening to her sing was a real release for MEN rather than women, which was interesting.

She also says the lyrics are properly classical, 14th century (or something) poems reset to modern music.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

She also says the lyrics are properly classical, 14th century (or something) poems reset to modern music.

Some of them are...like Al Atlal, for example. But I believe most of her songs were in Egyptian colloquial.