Thread: It's all in the (musical) details... things that bug me

I've been listening to a LOT of my music collection over again lately and I've concluded there are some things that pop up in bd music that make me just nuts! Maybe you have some too... but here are mine...

1. Using a trap set instead of traditional percussion. Okay, maybe it's possible to play a trap set (drum kit, whatever, with the bass drum, toms, snare, and crash cymbals) so that it SOUNDS traditional... but man, I hate those cymbal crashes and "standard rock drumming" going on behind the ME melodies! Sounds weird!

2. Using a reeeeeeally 80s-synthesizer instead of an organ. Sounds kind of like Flock of Seagulls took over your band.

3. Using electronic drum sounds set to one, steady, totally monotonous drum pattern through an entire 5 or 6 minute song. It just seems so sterile!

4. There are a few tracks floating around out there that sound, I SWEAR, like somebody is playing a banjo rather than an oud on them. I hate to tell ya, but it's rather comical! Is that what you meant to happen?

5. Songs with absolutely no intro music. Melody starts on beat 1. I just find those really hard to dance to.

Right! Rant over! Got any other thoughts on this subject?

2) i couldn't agree more!!! i can't even listen to those songs, i skip and generally delete from my playlist it annoys me so much. shame, cos some have nice melodies..

5) not a factor on whether i like a song or not, but yes, it is hard when you have to start dancing on the first beat (we're learning a choreo like that now, mehh!

Originally Posted by tigerb

4. There are a few tracks floating around out there that sound, I SWEAR, like somebody is playing a banjo rather than an oud on them. I hate to tell ya, but it's rather comical! Is that what you meant to happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cümbüş

Originally Posted by steffib

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cümbüş

Well, that's good to know... but the tunes that sound humorous to me sound like they are tuned like an American banjo.

The electronic zagareet is hilarious and totally canned sounding (esp. when the keyboardist/dj goes nuts on that button).

I'm not fond of CD's that were recorded in front of a live audience rather than in a studio. I don't like hearing audience applause at the beginning or ending of a track, and the sound fidelity is usually not very good due to the acoustics of the room in which it was recorded.

Originally Posted by Azhia

The electronic zagareet is hilarious and totally canned sounding (esp. when the keyboardist/dj goes nuts on that button).

like when they just lean on it for ever :)

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I'm not fond of CD's that were recorded in front of a live audience rather than in a studio. I don't like hearing audience applause at the beginning or ending of a track, and the sound fidelity is usually not very good due to the acoustics of the room in which it was recorded.

i don't generally like live recordings for performance for the same reasons. however, i really like them for listening. it helps me get the flavor of the concert. also, live music just has a different synergy and often once in a lifetime arrangements or variants. like that live version of alf leyla where after an exquisite heart felt phrase wraps, a guy in the audience goes nuts with praise and you can hear everyone crack up. then she just regains her composure and continues to sing. to me, stuff like that is priceless.

i'm not particularly fond of the simulated zill triplets that just run through a whole song.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

like when they just lean on it for ever :)

Or he presses it over and over like a replayed sample.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

i'm not particularly fond of the simulated zill triplets that just run through a whole song.

This is normally paired with aforementioned canned zagareet. .p::
..l;,

Originally Posted by Azhia

The electronic zagareet is hilarious and totally canned sounding (esp. when the keyboardist/dj goes nuts on that button).

Rofl! Reminds me of an over enthusiastic keyboard player we had a resturant once, who, even if you were dancing to cd, would still give you random electronic zagareet... and yes he did go nuts on occasion ..l;,

I'm not a fan of the obviously keyboard drum solos... ick

Originally Posted by tigerb

I've been listening to a LOT of my music collection over again lately and I've concluded there are some things that pop up in bd music that make me just nuts! Maybe you have some too... but here are mine...

1. Using a trap set instead of traditional percussion. Okay, maybe it's possible to play a trap set (drum kit, whatever, with the bass drum, toms, snare, and crash cymbals) so that it SOUNDS traditional... but man, I hate those cymbal crashes and "standard rock drumming" going on behind the ME melodies! Sounds weird!

2. Using a reeeeeeally 80s-synthesizer instead of an organ. Sounds kind of like Flock of Seagulls took over your band.

3. Using electronic drum sounds set to one, steady, totally monotonous drum pattern through an entire 5 or 6 minute song. It just seems so sterile!

4. There are a few tracks floating around out there that sound, I SWEAR, like somebody is playing a banjo rather than an oud on them. I hate to tell ya, but it's rather comical! Is that what you meant to happen?

5. Songs with absolutely no intro music. Melody starts on beat 1. I just find those really hard to dance to.

Right! Rant over! Got any other thoughts on this subject?

1.) Greek bands seem to use trap sets a lot.

2.) Cheesey!..l;, Can't stand those, either.

3.) Just say no to electronic drum tracks.

4.) Cumbus sounds banjo-like and is very popular in Turkish music, even eclipsing the oud. Side note: banjos originally came from instruments made by African slaves.

5.) Wait two or four counts, make it look deliberate?

Re: live recordings. It depends. Some of our live recordings are great, (in my humble opinion, lol). We took great pains to eliminate crowd noises during the pieces and to utilize mixing technology to create good sound. There were Arabs from Kuwait at one of our shows and their enthusiastic traditional clapping really adds a lot to a couple of the pieces, imho. A little applause at the end doesn't bother me, but I'm not as much of a purist as some people. I guess I like the feeling of live if I can't get real live.

Years ago, like 10 or 15 years or so, it seemed like Arab musicians were just crazy for those darn synthesizers. I saw Faruk, the fabulous ney player, doing a gig on the keyboard. I was horrified. He can break my heart and give me shivers when he plays the flute, but I just wanted to put a bullet into that keyboard. No nuance or real emotional content in the sound at all. Ugh.

Originally Posted by Azhia

The electronic zagareet is hilarious and totally canned sounding (esp. when the keyboardist/dj goes nuts on that button).

I have never heard one of these before, but now I'm DYING to!

The zaghareet is standard on most keyboards. My brother has one on his and we laugh when we play it. The keyboards have improved over the years. A Korg brand from 1980 doesnt even come close to a Ketron Vega of this year. Unfortunatly to get a musician of Faruk's quality on ney, oud or kanun is near impossible. I will take my brother on his arabic keyboard any day.

S

Originally Posted by laura 2

I have never heard one of these before, but now I'm DYING to!

Check out Walid Toufic's live version of "Sawwah." It's in there!

Can I add TRUMPETS in Arabic music? Any time I hear the trumpets, for some reason I feel like I need to start dancing like the ballet hippos in Fantasia.

ETA: ITA regarding the annoying electro-zaghareet.

The ultimate wisdom on strummy instruments: there is no such thing as a banjo, truth is, that instrument is an Appalachian cumbus; unfortunately, only bellydancers and Middle Eastern musicians are enlightened enough to know ;-) ;-) ;-)

(Sorry, I've been hanging out with musicians with a weird sense of humor.)

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Can I add TRUMPETS in Arabic music? Any time I hear the trumpets, for some reason I feel like I need to start dancing like the ballet hippos in Fantasia.

ETA: ITA regarding the annoying electro-zaghareet.

That always really distracts me... I'm listening to the ME music and suddenly we are listening to Earth Wind and Fire? Wha? There are probably individual tracks where I wouldn't mind it... Latin fusion for example... but sometimes it's like the bugle corps just wandered in from somewhere.

Originally Posted by tigerb

That always really distracts me... I'm listening to the ME music and suddenly we are listening to Earth Wind and Fire? Wha? There are probably individual tracks where I wouldn't mind it... Latin fusion for example... but sometimes it's like the bugle corps just wandered in from somewhere.

..l;,..l;,

Earth Wind and Fire is brilliant in a different context...

Electric bass

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

Electric bass

Shut your mouth! I effing LOVE it when an electric bass player goes crazy and makes what I call "electronic scha-wing" sounds.

Truth be told, I probably like all these cheesy things in the right context.

On Adam Basma's cds there is some electronic zaghareet. It's not that annoying because it's not on every song, but I have one cd, that most of the songs have at least 1, but some 2 or 3 in them. You just can't choose 2 of those songs in one performance, it would sound soooo annoying.

And the drum set just does not go with Arabic music in my opinion. It reminds me of a rock concert.

I wish they sold electronic zagareets on can.......LOL

My personal pet-peeve is when Khaleegi singers use Bhangra drums or (Indian) tabla in their music to make it sound more "exotic" and dancers hear the "Indian sound" and start doing hardcoe Indian dance movements to Khaleegi music....

Originally Posted by david

I wish they sold electronic zagareets on can.......LOL

I'd buy one! ..l;, And push the button during something crazy, like a Sun Ra Arkestra performance. Marshall Allan & the late Sun Ra would probably dig it!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djBKQNVj5Cc"]Space is the Place[/ame]

Songs that don't have a proper ending. They just stop and your left with WTF!

It's not as "good" as the elctronic one, but:
zahghareet ringtone
..l;,

I agree about the electric funk bass, yuck

Originally Posted by steffib

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cümbüş

I have GOT to hear this -- any suggestions on popular CDs?

My mandoliner would love this. He wants to play banjo so bad, but his friends and bandmates are constantly making fun of banjo players.

Originally Posted by aziyade

I have GOT to hear this -- any suggestions on popular CDs?

My mandoliner would love this. He wants to play banjo so bad, but his friends and bandmates are constantly making fun of banjo players.

I usually have a sample of cumbus on my website but the sound files are currently missing, I've been talking with tech support to get that fixed. When it is back up I can post the link here. You hear it a lot in Turkish music but I can't name a track with it off the top of my head.

Hm, from the top of my head: the Djinn CD very prominently features a cumbus.

Synthesized Mizmar.

eeewwwww!

Originally Posted by Veil_Dancer

Synthesized Mizmar.

eeewwwww!

Double eeeeewww.


And regarding a posting earlier in the thread: yep, love me a brass section: earth, wind, and fire, or Tower of Power (of course, I'm a bay area girl).

Good tunes, tight brass section.
Probably wouldn't belly dance to it, though.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Can I add TRUMPETS in Arabic music? Any time I hear the trumpets, for some reason I feel like I need to start dancing like the ballet hippos in Fantasia.

What, you don't like hasaballah bands?

Not even when Fifi Abdo is dancing to one in Concert at al-Esmailia?