Thread: Debke vrs Saiidi - rhythm ?

OK

I have gone and downloaded from emusic a load of 'Nawari' rythmn tracks. I can easily tell how these model examples are very different to Saiidi, but I am having problems with the more pop-y versions

Also . . in a rather timely manner this topic came up in class:

So in the Hossam Ramzy piece 'Faddah' at around 4:50, which rythmn is that? My (Egyptian) teacher says Debke . . I'm sure he can just 'feel' the difference but not articulate it very well. But I can hear it as

1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-|
T-D-__D-D-__T-__|

So I am confused!!! (and worried I may have saiidi-d to debke at some point in the past!!)

Thanks

Z

Originally Posted by zafirah

OK

I have gone and downloaded from emusic a load of 'Nawari' rythmn tracks. I can easily tell how these model examples are very different to Saiidi, but I am having problems with the more pop-y versions

Also . . in a rather timely manner this topic came up in class:

So in the Hossam Ramzy piece 'Faddah' at around 4:50, which rythmn is that? My (Egyptian) teacher says Debke . . I'm sure he can just 'feel' the difference but not articulate it very well. But I can hear it as

1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-|
T-D-__D-D-__T-__|

So I am confused!!! (and worried I may have saiidi-d to debke at some point in the past!!)

Thanks

Z

Z! I think I know what part you are talking about... and if it helps you de-worry any... it's very common for Egyptian style dancers to do Saiidi to Debke-ish rhythms... just like Lebanese dancers automatically react by doing Debke to "heavy rhythms" like Saiidi. ;) I'm at fault for having saiidi-d to that part too and so would 1/2 of the dancers I grew up with as we Saiidi-d to that part even in one of our teacher's choreographies to Faddah.

Doesnt that part go something like:
TD-DD-T
TD-TD-DT
TD-DD-DT

?

Originally Posted by zafirah

OK

I have gone and downloaded from emusic a load of 'Nawari' rythmn tracks. I can easily tell how these model examples are very different to Saiidi, but I am having problems with the more pop-y versions

Also . . in a rather timely manner this topic came up in class:

So in the Hossam Ramzy piece 'Faddah' at around 4:50, which rythmn is that? My (Egyptian) teacher says Debke . . I'm sure he can just 'feel' the difference but not articulate it very well. But I can hear it as

1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-|
T-D-__D-D-__T-__|

So I am confused!!! (and worried I may have saiidi-d to debke at some point in the past!!)

Thanks

Z

Ahh, ok. The rhythm is Saidi,

dd-dd-t
tt-dd-t

But the melody instrument used at around 4:58 sounds like a small mizuit (sp?) which is common in Lebanese dabke music. I can't put my finger down on it but when I also hear the melody instrument I can tell if it is dabke or not.

You can probably email Hossam to confirm this.

Actually I realised I forgot to mention the rule about what makes a rhythm Saidi and Nawari.

In Saidi the group of doums, normally pairs but sometimes in 3s, is in the middle of the rhythm. With Nawari the base accent is just td-td-t

Ahhh, about Faddah, there's a booklet in the CD case that specifies which rhythms are used where.. Went off to look for it yesterday but looks like I lost my booklet. Does anyone here have it perchance? And if so, what does it say?

ETA: worried slightly as well, am planning to dance to Faddah in a competition in a few months and don't want to get my ass kicked because of the dabke/saidi bit ..l;, Also: Shafeek's in the jury! .w.:

Originally Posted by Khalida

Ahhh, about Faddah, there's a booklet in the CD case that specifies which rhythms are used where.. Went off to look for it yesterday but looks like I lost my booklet. Does anyone here have it perchance? And if so, what does it say?

ETA: worried slightly as well, am planning to dance to Faddah in a competition in a few months and don't want to get my ass kicked because of the dabke/saidi bit ..l;, Also: Shafeek's in the jury! .w.:

It's common for Egyptian dancers to use Lebanese songs as if they were "Egyptian" though.... Did you see My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Remember how the father would argument that everything came from Greece? "sooo it is Greek"...can be translated to Indians or Egyptians or Lebanese people as well :) ;)

Faddah is probably not the best example to be using because it's a hyrid of a lot of things. The saidi rhythm in it is also used for the Baladi when the piano accordian comes in. The traditional folk Ashra Baladi peices I've heard generally use masmoudi saghir, maksoum and fellahi.

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

Ahh, ok. The rhythm is Saidi,

dd-dd-t
tt-dd-t

But the melody instrument used at around 4:58 sounds like a small mizuit (sp?) which is common in Lebanese dabke music. I can't put my finger down on it but when I also hear the melody instrument I can tell if it is dabke or not.

You can probably email Hossam to confirm this.

Actually I realised I forgot to mention the rule about what makes a rhythm Saidi and Nawari.

In Saidi the group of doums, normally pairs but sometimes in 3s, is in the middle of the rhythm. With Nawari the base accent is just td-td-t

Thank you for the rule :)

Is it the pitch of the mizmar that triggers you to go "DEBKE" or "SAIIDI"?

Originally Posted by david

Thank you for the rule :)

Is it the pitch of the mizmar that triggers you to go "DEBKE" or "SAIIDI"?

Well it's probably the fact that it isn't a Mizmar sound. It's a higher pitched Mizerwhit played with lots of trills and vibrato.

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

Well it's probably the fact that it isn't a Mizmar sound. It's a higher pitched Mizerwhit played with lots of trills and vibrato.

Thank you for clearing that one up :)