Thread: Masmoudi (sp.?) Rhythm

Can someone break this rhythm down for me? What makes it that rhythm. I am trying to learn all the different rhythms and I don't count to the music, I just listen. I do hear all the different rhythms for all the various types but since I am not a musician nor do I count. I would like to learn the breakdown. My teachers were surprised that I don't count they have said I have a great ear for music. So I want to learn more. I am starting to recognize this rhythm but I want to make sure that I am listening to it right. Post examples please.

Thanks!

on zills,
dum dum
tek tek
then a baladi
rr
ll
rl
rr
rlr r rlr
8 count

Zamora-You Rock. I am at work right now, air zilling.

The way I learned a "big" masmoudi is like this:

D D tktkT D tktkT tktkT - it's an 8-beat-mesure, doums are on 1, 2, and 5.

Yup, slow dramatic uneven rhythm with Dums on 1,2, & 5 (although sometimes there's an extra Dum between 2&3 on the and)

That's Big Masmoudi (masmoudi kebir), which is usually what people mean when they say Masmoudi. Little Masmoudi (masmoudi seghir) is often called Beledi in the US, and it's the same pattern but much faster, over beats instead of 8.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Yup, slow dramatic uneven rhythm with Dums on 1,2, & 5 (although sometimes there's an extra Dum between 1&2 on the and)

I believe that with the 3-beat masmoudi (kebir), the 3rd doum goes on the 3, and the first tktkT becomes a tkT:

D D D tkT D tktkT tktkT

That is a really fun variation, isn't it?

Originally Posted by steffib

I believe that with the 3-beat masmoudi (kebir), the 3rd doum goes on the 3, and the first tktkT becomes a tkT:

D D D tkT D tktkT tktkT

That is a really fun variation, isn't it?

YES! Although I meant to say it's on the 'and' between the 2 and the 3, which is how it's played every other measure on Hossam Ramzy's 'Through the Ankh.' I use that song for warmups and cooldowns a LOT, so that's the variation I'm hearing all the time. (and I'll go correct my error before it confuses things further)

According to Jas's ME rhythm page, my go-to online resource, you're right that it's usually on the 3, but that's not how I'm listening to it every week. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

According to Jas's ME rhythm page, my go-to online resource, you're right that it's usually on the 3, but that's not how I'm listening to it every week. Go figure.

You guys are talking about two different variations on masmoudi kabir. One is with 3 doums on the beats 1-2-3, and the other is with a more syncopated series of 3 doums - on 1 - 2&. The latter I've heard mainly in recordings put out by the Sharifs. In fact, on Nourhan's rhythm CD (vol. 1), she uses the latter variation of masmoudi kabir.

i'm very confused... why are they both masmoudi? why can't they just have a different name? what makes them a masmoudi? are there other variations?

Originally Posted by wingaki

i'm very confused... why are they both masmoudi? why can't they just have a different name? what makes them a masmoudi? are there other variations?

They're both 8 counts, with doums on 1, 2, and 5. There are just variations that have a third doum in the first half of the bar and some slight differences in the "fill" part of the rhythm.

Also...I think most rhythms have as many variations as there are drummers to play them. Like sa'idi...there are soooo many different ways for drummers to play it. I think you have to listen to several bars of a piece before it's possible to accurately pin down a particular rhythm. But once you pick up the count and some tell-tale indicators of a particular rhythm (placement of doums), it becomes easier to say, a-ha, this is masmoudi kabir vs. wahda kabir, or whatever.

Yes, each rhythm is defined by certain accents (in this case, the dums on 1,2 & 3). What happens around that is considered a variation.

If you gave each variation a new name, you'd have HUNDREDS of rhythms each with its own name, it would be impossible to keep track.

Think of it this way... a big hip circle is a big hip circle. It's defined by the hips going around in a big circle. We might do different arm patterns, tap the heels, bounce at the knees, dip through the center, stay hanging over one leg for a while, go partway around and come back again, backbend when the hips come forward, come out of it with some hipdrops or an undulation... but as long as the hips circle partway OR all the way 'round, it's a big hip circle.

thank you nisaasaintlouis and lauren. so all 8 count rhythm with doum on 1.2.5 is masmoudi? that makes a lot of sense. will remember 1,2,5. thank you!

just want to check - any non-8-count rhythm with doum on 1,2,5?

the differences that I was hearing is exactly why I asked this question! Thank you so much! Keep the examples coming please!

Originally Posted by wingaki

thank you nisaasaintlouis and lauren. so all 8 count rhythm with doum on 1.2.5 is masmoudi? that makes a lot of sense. will remember 1,2,5. thank you!

just want to check - any non-8-count rhythm with doum on 1,2,5?

mmmm boy. I hate to ever say 'always' or 'never.'

Rhythms have evolved organically, over time, so they're all interrelated.

But generally if it's a slow 8-count Arabic rhythm with dums on 1, 2 & 5 I think yes, it's Masmoudi. If it sounds & feels like Masmoudi, of course.....g.:

The best way to learn is to get a rhythm CD and listen, listen, listen. (I like Uncle Mafufo's 25 rhythms the best, but Jalilah's and Nourhan's and Hossam Ramzy's are all good, too).

thanks again Lauren

yes i have Nourhan's first rhythm cd that includes one variation of masmoudi. however she doesn't explain how to recognize the rhythms. does uncle Mafufo's cd gives explaination?

Originally Posted by wingaki

thanks again Lauren

yes i have Nourhan's first rhythm cd that includes one variation of masmoudi. however she doesn't explain how to recognize the rhythms. does uncle Mafufo's cd gives explaination?

Yes and no. Not spelled out the way we just did it here.

But he first counts the rhythm, then speaks it in the 'language of dumtekistan' (Dun dun tek tek Dun tekatekatek) then plays it very simply then building complexity. For my personal learning style (highly verbal!) the speaking of the rhythm REALLY helped me to 'get' it and hear it. There are also some brief but infinitely helpful written notations in the liner.

I used to bang out the drums on a coffee can before I got a dumbek. It *really* helped me to get a feel for them.

Originally Posted by wingaki

thanks again Lauren

yes i have Nourhan's first rhythm cd that includes one variation of masmoudi. however she doesn't explain how to recognize the rhythms. does uncle Mafufo's cd gives explaination?

Karim Nagi's Rhythms cd's also talks out the rhythms, then plays, then has a song that incorporates the rhythms, also produced, or in conjunction with Nourhan Sharif

thanks Kina! i'll definitely will try and get some of the rhythm cds.

i was listening to music to find masmoudi rhythm. i found all 1,2,5 and 1,2,2.5,5 and 1,2,3,5 variations that were mentioned! so so so happy!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Think of it this way... a big hip circle is a big hip circle. It's defined by the hips going around in a big circle. We might do different arm patterns, tap the heels, bounce at the knees, dip through the center, stay hanging over one leg for a while, go partway around and come back again, backbend when the hips come forward, come out of it with some hipdrops or an undulation... but as long as the hips circle partway OR all the way 'round, it's a big hip circle.

i'll work on all of these variations of big hip circle tomorrow when i practise!

Originally Posted by kdizzle

can someone break this rhythm down for me? What makes it that rhythm. I am trying to learn all the different rhythms and i don't count to the music, i just listen. I do hear all the different rhythms for all the various types but since i am not a musician nor do i count. I would like to learn the breakdown. My teachers were surprised that i don't count they have said i have a great ear for music. So i want to learn more. I am starting to recognize this rhythm but i want to make sure that i am listening to it right. Post examples please.

Thanks!

The 3 major versions of Masmoudi Kebir are


1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-5-+-6-+-7-+-8-+-|
D---D---____T---D---____T---T---| 2 Doum
D---D---D---T---D---____T---T---| 3 Doum
D---D-D-____T---D---____T---T---| Syncopated




The most common versions are the 2 and 3 doum.

Masmoudi Sagir is the same doum pattern but compressed to a count of 4. Most common is 2 Doum Masmoudi Sagir.


1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-|
D-D-__T-D-__T-__| 2 Doum
DDD-__T-D-__T-__| 3 Doum
D-DD__T-D-__T-__| Syncopated


Then there are variations of the versions. Variations are just tak and ka notes to fill in between the major accented notes.

The cabaret short hand names for Masmoudi Kebir is just Masmoudi, and Masmoudi Sagir is Baladi.

So the rule is, Masmoudi has a group of Doums at the beginning and 1 doum in the middle of the rhythm. Fairly easy to remember.

Originally Posted by wingaki

i'll work on all of these variations of big hip circle tomorrow when i practise!

Oooh, do them to the Masmoudi rhythm!

Did you see the clip of Tahiya Carioca dancing to Masmoudi entrance music on another thread? Awesome clip!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYI8h2gR9x4]YouTube - TAHIA CARIOCA (1915-1999)[/ame]

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

The 3 major versions of Masmoudi Kebir are


1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-5-+-6-+-7-+-8-+-|
D---D---____T---D---____T---T---| 2 Doum
D---D---D---T---D---____T---T---| 3 Doum
D---D-D-____T---D---____T---T---| Syncopated




The most common versions are the 2 and 3 doum.

Masmoudi Sagir is the same doum pattern but compressed to a count of 4. Most common is 2 Doum Masmoudi Sagir.


1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-|
D-D-__T-D-__T-__| 2 Doum
DDD-__T-D-__T-__| 3 Doum
D-DD__T-D-__T-__| Syncopated


Then there are variations of the versions. Variations are just tak and ka notes to fill in between the major accented notes.

The cabaret short hand names for Masmoudi Kebir is just Masmoudi, and Masmoudi Sagir is Baladi.

So the rule is, Masmoudi has a group of Doums at the beginning and 1 doum in the middle of the rhythm. Fairly easy to remember.

Wow! Thank you!

Also remember that IF you are tring to pay attention to rhythms "on the fly" or just mapping your music you MUST pay attention to both the doums and the teks (fillers).
The "small" (2 doum) masmoudi has the same doum accents as the beledi rhythm. Which has a different feel than the masmoudi and should be danced differently.
The difference betweeen the two is that the masmoudi has a whole bunch of stuiff (lots of teks and 'a') happening in beween the doum accents. There is no rigid definement of those so it will vary with the drummer. Wheras Beledi is strictly defined with the exception of some variation on the end.
xoxo,
-NJ

Originally Posted by mmouse1534

Also remember that IF you are tring to pay attention to rhythms "on the fly" or just mapping your music you MUST pay attention to both the doums and the teks (fillers).
The "small" (2 doum) masmoudi has the same doum accents as the beledi rhythm. Which has a different feel than the masmoudi and should be danced differently.
The difference betweeen the two is that the masmoudi has a whole bunch of stuiff (lots of teks and 'a') happening in beween the doum accents. There is no rigid definement of those so it will vary with the drummer. Wheras Beledi is strictly defined with the exception of some variation on the end.
xoxo,
-NJ

Just to add to that, I was drumming in a Masmoudi workshop last weekend where people had trouble recognising between a very fast Masmoudi Kebir and and slow Masmoudi Sagir.

You can generally tell because the second half of Masmoudi Kebir is Wahda and you should hear the 2 tak accents after the doum. Masmoudi Sagir, you only have 1 tak accent after the doum in the middle