Thread: Music wih drum only for conservative gig

Hello, collective bhuz hive mind, I need to draw upon your vast knowledge!

I have a gig coming up, doing a 15 minute performance and 1 hour lesson for a henna party for a group of conservative Muslim women. They follow the hadith that the use of musical instruments is haram. However, percussive instruments, such as drum and zils, are ok.

I have done gigs like this before, using Samasem's drum rhythms for the lesson, and using drum tracks of chiftitelli, beledi, zar, etc to cobble together a routine.

Any other cds or resources that I can add to my collection for this gig, and similar gigs that will come up in the future? Thank you!

I just got one off emusic that was called derbake something (it was from a brazilian producer i believe as the title looked to be in portuguese)... I don't remember the name, but it's entirely drum and seemed promising with some good tracks.

Some of the ATS cd's are pretty much just drums and zills ( for the sake of learning the rhythms ).

i would find it very strange to dance for women who think music is harram.

i dont mean to tell you off! its just that a few years ago i myself had a very unpleasant discussion with a muslim man about this that left a very very taste in my mouth. I didnt enjoy being demonized. what he said about me, but also music and dancing in general was just utterly horrible.

on the other hand, being able to work with these women sounds interesting, a great experience

let us know how it went!

ah, music: i have this cd, tribal drums? and also several of uncle malfufo's cds that are good....

remember now, it's from fat chance bellydance
Music: Tribal Dance - Tribal Drums - Rhapsody Online

i dont remember if it's only drums, but i think so!

"the very cairo" series, you can order at www.sakkara.de has good drumming only tracks that arent just drum solo's

Howabout Uncle Mafufo's "Drumsongs for Dancers"? Thats drum-only.

Adam Basma has a drum solo CD; it may be a little too noisy but I just love this CD for drum solos.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i would find it very strange to dance for women who think music is harram.

i dont mean to tell you off! its just that a few years ago i myself had a very unpleasant discussion with a muslim man about this that left a very very taste in my mouth. I didnt enjoy being demonized. what he said about me, but also music and dancing in general was just utterly horrible.

on the other hand, being able to work with these women sounds interesting, a great experience

let us know how it went!

Thanks for the resources, Artemisia! I've danced for this group before and they are very nice and have a lot of fun dancing. It's like every other gig, but just all drums.

Actually, the woman who booked me had forgotten to mention the drums-only thing at first. I hadn't realized that I'd worked with her friends before - I was really glad she remembered and called me to let me know or I would have shown up with my Hakim and Saad!

I'll keep you guys posted on this one.

Originally Posted by phillyraqs

I hadn't realized that I'd worked with her friends before - I was really glad she remembered and called me to let me know or I would have shown up with my Hakim and Saad!

That would've gone over like a lead balloon!!

I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I'm finding it so hard to understand why musical instruments would be forbidden but drums and dancing would be OK.

However, I'm pretty equal-opportunity when it comes to not being able to understand the sometimes random and hypocritical restrictions of organized religions.

Anyway.. for teaching I love love love the nice long rhythm tracks on Solace's Rhythm of the Dance. One of the beledi tracks starts slow, speeds up to a crescendo, then starts over slowly again -- repeat. It's great for drilling.

There's an album called the Black Drum on iTunes which is very interesting, it's sort of a rhythm CD but sort of not. Does rhythms, but they're usually not straight rhythms, they mix things up a bit. I've used the Shifty Chiftitelli a lot, and the other songs are very interesting as well.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I'm finding it so hard to understand why musical instruments would be forbidden but drums and dancing would be OK.

However, I'm pretty equal-opportunity when it comes to not being able to understand the sometimes random and hypocritical restrictions of organized religions.

Anyway.. for teaching I love love love the nice long rhythm tracks on Solace's Rhythm of the Dance. One of the beledi tracks starts slow, speeds up to a crescendo, then starts over slowly again -- repeat. It's great for drilling.

Just a guess but maybe because the words are offensive? I know this is how some other Christian fundamentals feel about music with words that they find offensive.

This is fascinating to me, and I think it's great that you're doing it. What will you wear? What will you teach?

Originally Posted by Fotia

Just a guess but maybe because the words are offensive? I know this is how some other Christian fundamentals feel about music with words that they find offensive.

No, it has to do with interpretation of the Quran and the Hadiths about whether singing that is not religious recitation and playing of musical instruments except the duff are permissible in Islam. Liberal Muslims tend to believe that anything that isn't too obviously indecent or immoral is okay; more conservative ones prohibit a wider range. American rap music is quite popular in the Middle East, so I have no idea how "good" Muslims justify listening to songs about "pimps and hos" fornicating under the influence of illegal narcotics, but they probably don't understand how the majority of American Catholics can admire the Pope and disregard his stance on birth control.

Google "musical instruments haram" for a huge list of discussions on the matter....

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

No, it has to do with interpretation of the Quran and the Hadiths about whether singing that is not religious recitation and playing of musical instruments except the duff are permissible in Islam. Liberal Muslims tend to believe that anything that isn't too obviously indecent or immoral is okay; more conservative ones prohibit a wider range. American rap music is quite popular in the Middle East, so I have no idea how "good" Muslims justify listening to songs about "pimps and hos" fornicating under the influence of illegal narcotics, but they probably don't understand how the majority of American Catholics can admire the Pope and disregard his stance on birth control.

Google "musical instruments haram" for a huge list of discussions on the matter....

Yup, I am totally confused, especially about listening to rap music being okay

I wear a typical belly dance costume with exposed midriff and teach the same movements - but there are absolutely no men anywhere nearby.

It's very cute usually, these women wear niqab - they come in, we shut the doors, and they throw off their black abayas and have workout clothing underneath. I dance, they cheer, we do a lesson and it builds into a little choreography. Usually everyone is laughing and cracking each other up and joking with this one woman who apparently used to go to tons of dance clubs back in the day and usually starts doing some crazy moves.

At the end, we finish, they put their abayas and niqabs back on and that's it.

I know that these women are Muslim converts, so they did not always veil and did listen to music and dance in public. I don't inquire much further and their beliefs don't bother me, so I haven't given much thought to it. (I mean, hey, I follow a religion which dictates that I fast for almost 160 days out of the year - who am I to judge?)

I'm definitely not an expert on why some Muslims feel that music is haram, I know that scholars disagree on the Prophet's teachings so some people only listen to a capella voice, some only to drum, some to both, some to only tamborine at a wedding, etc. If anyone has more information, I'd be very interested.

Thanks Tourbeau, we were posting at the same time! There is a ton of info on the internet, you are right.

I grew up attending a Christian church that believes only in a capella singing for their services - no organ, no piano, just voices. But I took 10 years of piano lessons, played saxophone and bassoon in band through high school, and sang in choir in school (with instrumental accompaniment - I even did the accompanying occasionally). Interpretation of religious writings can vary widely, obviously!

That aside, the album "Mezdeke Percussion" (yes, one of those with the face veils on the cover!) has many tracks that have no instruments. Some have a tiny bit of instrumentation thrown in (or a ring tone at the beginning) so listen to them in their entirety, but you might find something there. Available on eMusic, Amazon, and probably on itunes.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

American rap music is quite popular in the Middle East, so I have no idea how "good" Muslims justify listening to songs about "pimps and hos" fornicating under the influence of illegal narcotics.

Well, probably for the same reason many mothers and fathers let their teen-agers listen to that stuff - they've probably never paid attention to what all those lyrics are about,and even if htey listen they probably dont knwo what the slang means.

And how many of us liek Middle Eastenr songs even when we dont know what theyre about?

You could use Mary Ellen Donald's extended rhythm cds for dancers. Not sure how interesting it would be though.

I don't see how the rap music in the middle east connects. There are muslims in the middle east who listen to music and there is a minority who takes the hadith about musical instruments a certain way and only allow percussion.
The ones listening to rap music are NOT the ones who think music is haram im sure and im sure they listen to other music as well?
I am finding this odd though.
Maybe the ladies really want to belly dance yet they believe in that interpretation and they are trying to work around it?

But if anyone wants to know, the hadith was one of the Prophet's hadiths where he looks into the future, and says something about it.
Like there was a hadith where he said that one day the bedouins would be building skyscrapers.
This hadith, i dony remember word for word but it was something to the effect of: one day people will be playing instruments and drinking wine or something and it would be widespread, I'm too lazy to dig for that hadith right now sorry.
But he didn't give an opinion about the music.
Now because wine is haram people assumed the instruments were too.
Even though the hadith does not say that explicitly.
And the whole thing about percussion comes from the fact that there was tons of percussion around the prophet and he didn't say a thing about it so it can't be haram. He actually encouraged the playing of the duff. There is also a Quranic mention of singing but I can't remember now and I don't want to type nonsense. lol
It's kind of an extreme interpretation(no music except at percussion).
But im no scholar so don't quote me on any of this btw lol.
I just did a lot of research about 2 years ago and asked a lot of scholars because i consider myself a religious person and I wanted to know the story on the whole "music is haram" thing for myself and my peace of mind.
And I don't think it is haram for the most part.
And I DON'T consider myself "liberal" either (I hate that label anyway).

But I respect religious people that avoid music.
I do see how some music (negative lyrics) can affect spirituality etc.

I also know that most times American converts to Islam are overzealous in the beginning, niqab no music.
Some of them change and get moderate, some don't (shrug).

well have fun at your belly dance lesson! lol

Ohh you live in Philly!!! (I assume from your screenname)
that explains the American niqabi women!!
LOL!!

I like Beat Bazaar from the Hollywood Music Center

"The Tabla is an ancient instrument used throughout the Middle-East. Beat Bazaar is a collaboration of the worlds finest Tabla professionals presenting the art of Arabian percussion. The featured drummers are: Gamal Goma, Sayed Madbouli, Eddie Kochak, Hamdi Al-Khayyat, Khamis Henkish, Seyyid El Masri, Mohamed Bakkar, Sayiid Rakak, Ahmad Al-Tabbal."

Oh, these are awesome ideas, thanks everyone! I am going to have tons of music to pick through!

Sharifeh, thanks so much for the information above, yes, I am in Philly, home of the niqabi converts! LOL!

Originally Posted by sharifeh

I don't see how the rap music in the middle east connects. There are muslims in the middle east who listen to music and there is a minority who takes the hadith about musical instruments a certain way and only allow percussion.
The ones listening to rap music are NOT the ones who think music is haram im sure and im sure they listen to other music as well?

I was merely saying that the spectrum of opinions about the appropriateness of music varies from fervently conservative (no singing except religious recitation, only drum) to a wide moderate band (secular music as long as it isn't too indecent) to hyper-liberals who can find justification for listening to records that would clearly not fit into any standard definition of moral decency under Islam. Islam is no different than any other religion. You have hardliners at both ends, moderates in the middle, and varying degrees of hypocrites mixed in across the board.

I am finding this odd though.
Maybe the ladies really want to belly dance yet they believe in that interpretation and they are trying to work around it?

Maybe it is like the crazy lingerie, and they are seeing it as something special to share with their husbands?

I did a Yemeni wedding that was somewhat like this. There was musical instruments but all the women were separated from the men and we only danced for the women. There were two separate wedding processionals, one for the men and another for the women. They took of their niqabs after the few men in the bridal processional left and we partied it up.

Ultra super duper conservative.... but still music and dancing. So I think its a personal choice as to how far each family goes on the the conservative thing. Its a fine line to balance. They want their guests to have fun... but they also dont want to appear to be doing anything lude or outside the "permissible parameters" or their religious beliefs. Nobody ever completely adheres to EVERY tenant of their religious belief system.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I was merely saying that the spectrum of opinions about the appropriateness of music varies from fervently conservative (no singing except religious recitation, only drum) to a wide moderate band (secular music as long as it isn't too indecent) to hyper-liberals who can find justification for listening to records that would clearly not fit into any standard definition of moral decency under Islam. Islam is no different than any other religion. You have hardliners at both ends, moderates in the middle, and varying degrees of hypocrites mixed in across the board.

oh ok I get it

Maybe it is like the crazy lingerie, and they are seeing it as something special to share with their husbands?

Maybe. lol

Originally Posted by Amber_moon

I did a Yemeni wedding that was somewhat like this. There was musical instruments but all the women were separated from the men and we only danced for the women. There were two separate wedding processionals, one for the men and another for the women. They took of their niqabs after the few men in the bridal processional left and we partied it up.

Ultra super duper conservative.... but still music and dancing. So I think its a personal choice as to how far each family goes on the the conservative thing. Its a fine line to balance. They want their guests to have fun... but they also dont want to appear to be doing anything lude or outside the "permissible parameters" or their religious beliefs. Nobody ever completely adheres to EVERY tenant of their religious belief system.

Yes, I've been to many Yemeni weddings but with them it's a little different because their culture is conservative regardless of religion. There is a Jewish community in Yemen and they wear niqab too, and they separate their weddings as well. With them it's not really a religious thing. But if you tell them that they'll have a fit ..l;,

Originally Posted by mysterywoman

Howabout Uncle Mafufo's "Drumsongs for Dancers"? Thats drum-only.

I second this one. Also the rhythm CD by Khamis Henkish that comes with Nesma's DVD would be great for drills, as would Issam's The Dancing Drum.

The Serpentine drum CD Pulse of the Sphinx (also Henkish) has some great solos, as does the Masters of Arabic Percussion (this one's on either iTunes or eMusic, don't recall which). Oh! and Raquy and the Cavemen have a few of their tracks on iTunes I think (look for the Naked CD).

Sounds like a fun gig! Do tell us how it goes. :)

Originally Posted by sharifeh

There is a Jewish community in Yemen and they wear niqab too, and they separate their weddings as well. With them it's not really a religious thing. But if you tell them that they'll have a fit ..l;,

Actually, it is a religious thing. Yemenite Jews are one of the most observant Jewish communities. Moreover, since they were pretty much isolated from other (Ashkenazi and Sefardi) communities they have observed many of the customs in their original form. For instance, something relevant to this thread, they observed the prohibition of not using musical instruments as a commemoration of the destruction of the temple, the holiest site to the Jewish people . They don't play music neither in worship nor in the circle of life festivities like weddings, bar mitzvas etc. Their musical tradition is only vocal and is accompanied by simple percussion like hand clapping or playing tin drums (usually made from olive oil tins). It has been changing of course in the recent decades, since most of the community immigrated to Israel.