Thread: Learning Percussion

Hey guys!
I want to hear from the BD community what CD's, books and instructional videos you recommend for learning ME percussion?

For me, my fave has always been Uncle Mafufo. (I may have spelled that wrong...)

I still refer back to my tape when I feel I'm getting confused on a rhythm. (Yeah, it's an audio TAPE, not even a CD, that's how long I've had it!)

I recommend Carmine. www.carmine.com I know he does classes and will be teaching at Raks east this year.

Alrana

there is also a dvd, recommended here on bhuz... that not only has the rhythms, explained and played out, but has a dancer demonstrating how to dance to each of hte rhythms, also has a wonderful performance at the end... I'm trying to find it...

aha!

Rhythms of Oriental Dance with Nesma and Kasmis Henkish (DVD with CD)


wonderful dvd

What do people think of "The Art of the Drum Solo" with Sonia and Issam? And there is also a newer DVD through world dance new york.

Originally Posted by resullivan

What do people think of "The Art of the Drum Solo" with Sonia and Issam? And there is also a newer DVD through world dance new york.

Sonia/Issam is a decent beginner dvd, not among the best. netflix carries it, so it can be viewed before purchase. I haven't seen the World Dance NY one.

WorldDance NY has a beginner dumbek DVD with Amir Naoum [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXiCwnmBy58"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXiCwnmBy58[/ame]
Raquy Danziger (of Raquy and the Cavemen) has a book that comes with a DVD and CD http://www.raquy.com
And Carmine is coming out with a beginner Dumbek instructional, I'm not sure of the release date...

I really liked Mary Ellen Donalds' series

http://www.maqam.com/cgi-bin/cdtest....y+ellen+donald

So do you want to actually learn to play the drums or just identify rhythms?

Uncle Malfufo is a great DVD. It's the only one I know that spends at least 5 mins explain technique. With some of the other DVDs you are lucky to get 30 seconds.

Amir Naoum's Doumbek technique is quite good as well. You can also check out Souhail Kasper's DVD.

I'm actually looking to find more resources to recommend to others who want to learn it.

Thanks so far everyone!
~*Genisis*~

I second that! I love this DVD!! I wrote a full review of it on Gilded Serpent:
http://www.gildedserpent.com/art39/LeylaNesmareview.htm

Originally Posted by kina

there is also a dvd, recommended here on bhuz... that not only has the rhythms, explained and played out, but has a dancer demonstrating how to dance to each of hte rhythms, also has a wonderful performance at the end... I'm trying to find it...

aha!

Rhythms of Oriental Dance with Nesma and Kasmis Henkish (DVD with CD)


wonderful dvd

Originally Posted by leylalanty

I second that! I love this DVD!! I wrote a full review of it on Gilded Serpent:
http://www.gildedserpent.com/art39/LeylaNesmareview.htm

Nice review Leyla. I'm thinking about buying it - and you review has brought up other questions.

I'd love to hear other reviews of it.

What was most useful about it? How did it differ from other drum/dance DVDs? I've heard it's very descriptive about the drum but not so much about the dance...did you find this to be the case? How much did she talk about the dance and different moves for different rhythms?
In your review you said you liked the silhouette effect... when I've seen dancers in silhouette it was lovely for arms, hands etc, but not as effective at conveying shimmies - I'd think this would be important in a drum solo video- how did they work around that?
What was it about this DVD that would inspire you to buy from her again?
I LOVE his playing - are there any performance usable tabla solos on the CD? I would certainly love one or two of those.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

Nice review Leyla. I'm thinking about buying it - and you review has brought up other questions.

I'd love to hear other reviews of it.

What was most useful about it? How did it differ from other drum/dance DVDs? I've heard it's very descriptive about the drum but not so much about the dance...did you find this to be the case? How much did she talk about the dance and different moves for different rhythms?
In your review you said you liked the silhouette effect... when I've seen dancers in silhouette it was lovely for arms, hands etc, but not as effective at conveying shimmies - I'd think this would be important in a drum solo video- how did they work around that?
What was it about this DVD that would inspire you to buy from her again?
I LOVE his playing - are there any performance usable tabla solos on the CD? I would certainly love one or two of those.

Well let's open up the can of worms. This review is from a drummer's perspective.

The producer of the DVD said that this was aimed at a broad audience and it does show. A drummer couldn't necessarily learn to drum and a dancer couldn't learn to dance watching it.

However each gets to see how the other relate to it and the historical information on the rhythms in the DVD and booklet can be quite useful. Especially how folk people will name a rhythm differently to someone in an orchestra.

It's a great concept to have a drummer and dance teach rhythms but it needed a lot better execution on the dance side. If you muted the sound and watched the dance section of saidi, you would not recognise the rhythm the dancer is dancing to. How a drummer is suppose to recognise it as saidi is beyond me.

Dumbek Fever (Vol. 1) by Raquy Danziger

http://www.raquy.com/book.htm

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

If you muted the sound and watched the dance section of saidi, you would not recognise the rhythm the dancer is dancing to. How a drummer is suppose to recognise it as saidi is beyond me.

Both a dancer and a drummer here -- and I just gotta ask Why oh Why would you mute it? ..c:: Certainly, a dancer, even if she is doing folkloric steps that are traditionally done to a specific rhythm, is not always exactly mirroring the rhythm pattern, so I'm not sure what your point was. Can you clarify, cause you've got me scratching my head over your review.

BTW -- I'll fess up, I'm a great fan of this dvd!

Originally Posted by kat

Both a dancer and a drummer here -- and I just gotta ask Why oh Why would you mute it? ..c:: Certainly, a dancer, even if she is doing folkloric steps that are traditionally done to a specific rhythm, is not always exactly mirroring the rhythm pattern, so I'm not sure what your point was. Can you clarify, cause you've got me scratching my head over your review.

BTW -- I'll fess up, I'm a great fan of this dvd!

Normally if a dancer wants a Saidi rhythm, she will go into very specific, recognisable Saidi movements like lifting up the leg and kicking. Bit of Trivia, Saidi movements are suppose to resemble a prancing Saidi horse.

A little like this dancer at 50sec and the other dancer at 3:30 and the sliding footwork at 3:40 (Another bit of trivia, the dancer in black was Kaeshi Chai's teacher)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixWJF5nyiVw"]YouTube - Bellydance Ball[/ame]

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

Normally if a dancer wants a Saidi rhythm, she will go into very specific, recognisable Saidi movements like lifting up the leg and kicking. Bit of Trivia, Saidi movements are suppose to resemble a prancing Saidi horse.

Okay -- that's no secret and always good info to know for beginning drummers and dancers. But, I'll have to say in over 30 years of dancing I've never signaled a drummer that I want Saidi rhythm by doing a traditional Saidi step. But then I usually talk to the drummer/band before hand when I dance to live music, so guess I just never thought of that as a "signal" for a specific rhythm, but more of a reaction to a specific rhythm (though I don't think of it as a requisite for a dancer, but as something a knowledgeable dancer might do for a few measures to show she knows the origin of the rhythm, especially when dancing for an ethnic audience.). So, perhaps I just misunderstood your post? I'm still not understanding why anyone watching/listening to a dvd on drumming and dancing to the drumming would mute the sound and then say they couldn't tell what rhythm was being played because the dancer's movements weren't either mirroring the rhythm (ala down on the doum up on the tek) or performing some traditional folkloric step. I haven't watched the dvd in a month or so, but I seem to remember there were shots of his hands, and as a visual and audio learner, those shots would be my hint as to what the drummer was playing and what I (as a drumming student) should mimic -- not the steps the dancer was performing. So guess we were just looking at the overall purpose of the video from two different viewpoints, eh? ..g.:

Originally Posted by kat

I'm still not understanding why anyone watching/listening to a dvd on drumming and dancing to the drumming would mute the sound and then say they couldn't tell what rhythm was being played because the dancer's movements weren't either mirroring the rhythm (ala down on the doum up on the tek) or performing some traditional folkloric step. I haven't watched the dvd in a month or so, but I seem to remember there were shots of his hands, and as a visual and audio learner, those shots would be my hint as to what the drummer was playing and what I (as a drumming student) should mimic -- not the steps the dancer was performing. So guess we were just looking at the overall purpose of the video from two different viewpoints, eh? ..g.:

Ok, I'm not looking at the drummer, I'm looking at the dancer.

As a drummer I already know what the rhythm sounds like. I needed to know what the rhythm looks like, especially if it is a folkloric rhythm attached to a specific folkloric dance.

If a dancer tells me beforehand that she wants malfouf, saidi, fellahi and Ayoub in the drum solo, I need to be able to pick the signal for the rhythm changes. What I'm talking about here is two way improvisation beyond rule of 4s.

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

Ok, I'm not looking at the drummer, I'm looking at the dancer.

As a drummer I already know what the rhythm sounds like. I needed to know what the rhythm looks like, especially if it is a folkloric rhythm attached to a specific folkloric dance.

If a dancer tells me beforehand that she wants malfouf, saidi, fellahi and Ayoub in the drum solo, I need to be able to pick the signal for the rhythm changes. What I'm talking about here is two way improvisation beyond rule of 4s.

Okay, I understand this -- but what you said in your first post was this:

"A drum(sic) couldn't necessarily learn to drum and a dancer couldn't learn to dance watching it."

I think the first part of that statement is truer than the second. While I would want to include Saidi folkloric steps in my performance, another dancer might not (and would not be bound to do so) -- so learning to dance to the Saidi rhythm does not necessarily always mean depiction of traditional Saidi steps. And what if the rhythm were other than Saidi -- would your observation hold as true for other rhythms?

For instance, if you were going from malfouf to masmoudi saghir -- as a drummer, what steps would you expect to see to trigger your rhythm change?

I'm all for two way improvisation and for cues between drummer and dancer. I'm just stuck on doing Saidi steps to malfouf so the drummer(s) might make the change. Seems to me that a manual or even vocal cue would make more sense. In your dvd scenario, might not a beginning dancer/drummer/viewer deduce that the Saidi steps belonged with the malfouf rhythm if a dancer started doing them before the Saidi rhythm actually started -- and be confused when the steps continued into the new rhythm? I guess with all the drummers I worked with as a dancer and with all the dancers I've worked with as a drummer, we've planned cues that did not involve performing the folkloric steps from one rhythm to another rhythm to cue a change from one to the other. We used eye contact, hand signal, vocal cue for the change.

While I see your point if say, a dancer is completely improvising -- out there without even a base plan of what rhythms she wants and when she/he wants them, I guess I just don't know many people who actually perform that way. How many of you out there do? This thread has me curious!

Even in that pure improvisational scenario, most dancers I know would have a preplanned signal for change and would adapt his/her dancing to the change as it is made. While that might be imperfect in practice, I think that might be expected of a performance where there was no set plan for, at the least, which rhythms would be played in what order.

I think Uncle Mafufo's DVD is good for beginning drummers who want to start with going over technique. It's also good for people who are new to the rhythms - he starts out playing a slow, simple version of each rhythm, then he gradually starts adding embellishments. A beginning drummer can stick with playing the simple version throughout, whereas a more experienced drummer can start experimenting with his embellishments.

Mary Ellen Donald's rhythm CD's are a nice resource if you want assistance drilling for 4 minutes at a steady tempo. She also sells a practice music CD that is intended to let a drummer play along.

Mary Ellen's "Gems of the Middle East" family of products is a nice resource for drummers who have mastered basic rhythms and now want assistance learning how to apply that skill to actual songs. Each CD in the family products has an accompanying rhythm book. For each song on the CD, the rhythm book tells you exactly which rhythms are being used where in the song. Using the book for assistance, a drummer can play along with the songs on the CD using rhythms recommended in the book.

For people who know how to read music, Mary Ellen's dumbek book has good information about rhythms and ways to embellish them. It's an old book, which has been around a long time, so the page design and fonts look dated. But the information it contains is still valuable for learning to play percussion.

Originally Posted by kat

Okay, I understand this -- but what you said in your first post was this:

"A drum(sic) couldn't necessarily learn to drum and a dancer couldn't learn to dance watching it."

Ok, let me clarify that first statement. What I meant by it is that an absolute beginner who walked in off the street couldn't watch this video and figure out how to drum or dance. You have to know some basic technique to get any educational value out of watching this dvd.

I think the first part of that statement is truer than the second. While I would want to include Saidi folkloric steps in my performance, another dancer might not (and would not be bound to do so)

You are right in that a dancer might not choose to do the folk steps to Saidi, especially if it is in a modern Arabic pop song.

What I was getting at was a way for the dancer to communicate clearly, using her body, what rhythm she wants when she wants a change. The most universal way to do that is to go into some kind of traditional step if it exists.

For instance, if you were going from malfouf to masmoudi saghir -- as a drummer, what steps would you expect to see to trigger your rhythm change?

Funny enough I did ask this question of several dancers and teachers during the past year. Helena Vlahos was telling me there is a specific Baladi style that she use to train her drummers to recognise. I'm yet to follow her up on that ( I'm suppose to set up a time to give her a call from Sydney, maybe in January when things have slowed down ) I do have Hadia's rhythm DVD and gives me a clue.

The transition from malfouf to masmoudi saghir should be relatively easy to pick up. The 2/4 rhythms are travelling rhythms. If the dancer suddenly stops travel and does hip drops, especially in time to a masmoudi saghir, that's the signal for a change.

I'm all for two way improvisation and for cues between drummer and dancer. I'm just stuck on doing Saidi steps to malfouf so the drummer(s) might make the change. Seems to me that a manual or even vocal cue would make more sense. In your dvd scenario, might not a beginning dancer/drummer/viewer deduce that the Saidi steps belonged with the malfouf rhythm if a dancer started doing them before the Saidi rhythm actually started -- and be confused when the steps continued into the new rhythm? I guess with all the drummers I worked with as a dancer and with all the dancers I've worked with as a drummer, we've planned cues that did not involve performing the folkloric steps from one rhythm to another rhythm to cue a change from one to the other. We used eye contact, hand signal, vocal cue for the change.

You are right, some dancers have pre planned signals to indicate rhythm changes. We normally refer to that as American style because that is a lot more choreographed. The dancer would have to have a fair clear idea of what the routine is going to look like beforehand.

The senario you described with a dancer suddenly dancing another style to indicate a rhythm change is exactly the senario I have to deal with and have been told this is how they do it in the middle eastern. In the youtube clip, what is not shown is that Terezka moves from a Saidi dance to Zaar as we were still playing Saidi. That was the cue to change to Ayoub.

When the band leader, sees that he does an Ayoub call on the drum to let the rest of the band know to change.

While I see your point if say, a dancer is completely improvising -- out there without even a base plan of what rhythms she wants and when she/he wants them, I guess I just don't know many people who actually perform that way. How many of you out there do? This thread has me curious!

That's exactly what I am saying. The teachers I have been asking use to do it this way. Typically these were dancers who performed during the heyday here in the 80s or have worked for years in the middle east. Dancers would train drummers on what to look for.