Thread: Do you keep your old cds after importing them to the computer?

I finally got a new Macbook Pro 13inch!!! After my husband does data transfer---i will be flying!! to try to get rid of "too much stuff"---i want to put all of my music on the computer---how many of you save the discs---maybe in a file w/ just the insert? I now try to just import mp3s to cut down on clutter--but i have all those old ones!!!

It violates the rules of copyright law, and perhaps even more importantly of personal ethics, if one does not delete all digital copies when selling the original media. If you're concerned about clutter, maybe a storage system that does not rely on jewel cases is the way to save shelf space?

I don't think it violates any laws if you throw your CDs out or otherwise destroy the original media after importing to an electronic device. You were within fair use when you made the electronic copy, so as long as nobody else gets involved, it shouldn't be against the copyright laws. The problem is when someone sells or gives those CDs to another person who could have purchased their own legal version (but now no longer has a need to), and there are two independent consumers using one licensed copy.

Legal issues aside, there is still the reality of technology and the advantage of having stable media back ups. System upgrades, file corruptions, etc., may put you in a position in the future where you want or need to re-rip your CDs, and if you have disposed of them, you will have to re-buy all that music. You don't have to save them in a convenient, displayed arrangement, but I'd store them somewhere.

I really like having backups- I use iTunes, and I don't trust all the updates to forever maintain that system- I am paranoid that they are going to find a way to start charging for what I already have legal right to, but I'm okay with knowing I'm weird...

I keep the old CDs in one of those stacked cases that you can buy bulk blank CDs in, and I keep the inserts in a manilla envelope in my filing cabinet- way easier to access than the old jewelcases. The exception are the new, teeny tiny cardboard cases, like Serpentine is using- it's just as easy and space conservative to just keep everything in those cases on my little shelf.

i keep the cases in a bookshelf, but the CDs i upload to my computer for iPod, playlists, editing etc. then i take a sharpie to them and write the track names right on the CD its' self. then i keep them as organized as i can in these babies: http://www.discgear.com/Products/Dis...Staging).aspx?

perfect for a clutz like me. and i have them ready when i need a backup.

i used to get a lot of CDs from iTunes, but i am sick of not getting any of the info from the cd jacket (when there is any) and of having all my cds look the same, being burned copies of things i paid for in iTunes, so i've started paying more to buy actual CDs from amazon etc. downside (other than inc cost) is that sometimes they are damaged in shipping, i've never had a jacked-up CD, but the cases are often broken by the time i get them T_T

First, if you are ripping to MP3 you are ripping to a lossy format. You can definitely hear the difference between compressed files and lossless files. (The last time I made the set CD for a group, the women said "There's more music in the music - how did you do that?" The answer was because I used and converted lossless files for their set CD when they are used to playing crap MP3s that they bought online or ripped poorly using a low and non-variable bit rate.) So if you rip to MP3 and throw the CDs away, you are literally throwing the music away.

2nd, what backup system are you using? There are 2 types of hard drives - hard drives that have failed, and hard drives that haven't failed yet. How are you backing up your rips? What will you do when your computer eventually croaks?

Don't even get me started on how evil iTunes is...

Originally Posted by Annessa

First, if you are ripping to MP3 you are ripping to a lossy format. You can definitely hear the difference between compressed files and lossless files. ... 2nd, what backup system are you using? There are 2 types of hard drives - hard drives that have failed, and hard drives that haven't failed yet. How are you backing up your rips? What will you do when your computer eventually croaks?
Don't even get me started on how evil iTunes is...

Amen to the wise woman. A CD file is how much bigger than an mp3 file? What do you think you loose when you compress the music? The wealth of harmonics. When you crank it up for a show, the missing info is obviously gone and the music sounds hollow.

But I'm old fashioned. I like books too

Keep them. I recently had to deal with a hard drive that croaked. I managed to get the computer expert to "save" all my music and important documents on a backup drive. It took hours and hours and hours. I just recently discovered that all my music (which I saved in Realplayer) saved as realplayer files and not as mp3. I could listen to the music but I couldn't email the file or burn a CD or add the music to a photoslide. So I have to now re-load any CD that I want to work with. Thank goodness I'm old fashioned and keep hard copies of everything.

Two weeks ago, I had a hard disk failure on a computer that was only a year and a half old. Fortunately, I have current backups of the music that was on that drive - but suppose I didn't, and suppose I hadn't kept the CD's?

Hard disks can go bad. In the last 3 years, I've had hard drives in 4 different computers go bad, plus I've had an external drive go bad. It comforts me to know that even though I have made backups of my music files, I also still have the physical CD's they came from.

I've had so many disk failure, that I keep 2 backups of everything - one in the same room where I do all my computing, and the second in a fireproof safe. The time the tornado hammered our house with 150-mile-an-hour winds 4 years ago, I crouched on the basement steps desperately hoping I'd still have not only my house but also all my computer data after it passed.... (Fortunately, I did.)

Another issue, as Annessa and Serpentine have already pointed out, is that of the music quality. I'm in the process of re-doing my ENTIRE iTunes library. I'm re-ripping each and every song from the original CD, storing it on a portable hard drive in WAV (highest music quality) format), and then having iTunes reference that copy on disk instead of making its own mp3 version. That way, I can use the high-quality version on my portable hard disk instead of using the lower-quality mp3 file. Music quality is one dimension of your dance's quality, why not ensure you're using the best? And using the best means using WAV format (if you're a Windows user, not sure what the Mac equivalent is), and NOT using MP3. And yes, I do back up that external hard drive!

You can buy CD disk wallets that hold lots of disks in a compact space, such as this one: http://www.amazon.com/Nylon-320-Disc.../dp/B0002Y6CVA . But if you decide to throw away your jewel cases, be sure to keep the insert booklets because they often contain valuable information that you may want in the future.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

And using the best means using WAV format (if you're a Windows user, not sure what the Mac equivalent is), and NOT using MP3. And yes, I do back up that external hard drive!

WAV works on Mac too- and I don't know why this didn't occur to me- great, you've just given me *another* project to work on!

Originally Posted by taji-dancer

I finally got a new Macbook Pro 13inch!!! After my husband does data transfer---i will be flying!! to try to get rid of "too much stuff"---i want to put all of my music on the computer---how many of you save the discs---maybe in a file w/ just the insert? I now try to just import mp3s to cut down on clutter--but i have all those old ones!!!

I thought about making space as well, but I have lost my entire mp3 library three times. Once, a computer virus made my computer crash - I had to reinstall itunes and it didn't recognize my iPod and had to wipe it. I had to re-upload ALL of my music and it took weeks. But if I hadn't kept my back up CDs I would have lost thousands of dollars worth of music.
So I really really recommend keeping the CDs! Even keeping the files on an external hard drive isn't a safe bet - sometimes the files will get corrupted or misplaced.
Good luck! :)

One more point regarding sound quality: Yes, there are differences between WAV, MP3, RM, WMV, etc. formats. Some compression algorithms produce more detectable audio losses than others, but what this difference means in the real world is largely dependent on the circumstances of playback. Realistically, if you are doing a street fair gig with a boombox and competing with crowd noise, nobody in the audience may be able to tell that your MP3s have clipped some frequencies. It's always a smart idea to use the best quality sound files you can, especially if you're using a professional sound system in a location with good acoustics, but for some low-end gigs and teaching situations, MP3s are adequate--and the advantage of being able to get more files in less disk space may outweigh the disadvantage of audio losses.

i use the liner notes when teaching....thats why i dont buy MP3's. sometimes a student wants more info, plus some CD's have translations to teach too....and no 2 are ever the same!

Originally Posted by Lara L

WAV works on Mac too- and I don't know why this didn't occur to me- great, you've just given me *another* project to work on!

Happy New Year and thanks for all the information. i am going to get some small files for cds and inserts to save my hard original cds.
Now---who knows how to work w/ WAV on a Mac? i'm so used to iTunes(back in 2003 i worked at a restaurant that only used cds--had to learn iTunes in a hurry)i do know that making the burn speed slower helps cd quality when burning w. iTunes.

but for special shows---i would do a higher quality cd. if i knew how to work w/ WAV files.

Originally Posted by taji-dancer

Happy New Year and thanks for all the information. i am going to get some small files for cds and inserts to save my hard original cds.
Now---who knows how to work w/ WAV on a Mac? i'm so used to iTunes(back in 2003 i worked at a restaurant that only used cds--had to learn iTunes in a hurry)i do know that making the burn speed slower helps cd quality when burning w. iTunes.

but for special shows---i would do a higher quality cd. if i knew how to work w/ WAV files.

iTunes can rip to .wav files. Open iTunes, click on "iTunes." Then go to "Preferences." In the "General" tab, you will see something called like "Import Settings." You can create higher quality .mp3 files, use something that I think is an Apple thing (it's called lossless something or other), and create .wav files

but how can we play these higher quality WAV files if all the players play mp3?

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38530?viewlocale=en_US

For 5th Generation iPods:

"As with video, any audio file that you can play in iTunes will play on your iPod, including MP3, AIFF, WAV (uncompressed), AAC, and Audible (.aa) files."

I keep everything I've ever had, not just CDs but costumes, etc. I recently had need of something I did five years ago and I was so glad I kept everything pertaining to it even though I had downloads and copies, partly because the originals of everything I had from beginning to end. Hard to make sense of this, but I am generalizing.

Originally Posted by indigostars

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38530?viewlocale=en_US

For 5th Generation iPods:

"As with video, any audio file that you can play in iTunes will play on your iPod, including MP3, AIFF, WAV (uncompressed), AAC, and Audible (.aa) files."

But can cds w/ WAV files play on CD players?

Originally Posted by taji-dancer

But can cds w/ WAV files play on CD players?

As long as you are specifying that the CD you are burning is an audio CD and not a data CD, WAV files should work fine. It's not impossible to find an older player that might balk at CDs burned from WAV files, but then, that player might not like ones burned from MP3s, either. Standardization in terms of the ability of playback devices to accommodate variations in audio formats has improved over the years, but there are still a few of the older, idiosyncratic players around.

In response to some of the questions that arose on this thread...

Yes, you can tell iTunes to store files on your computer in WAV format instead of its default MP3 format. (See the post from indigostars for instructions.) That way, the original file format remains intact on your computer instead of being saved in the loss-of-data MP3 format. The down side, of course, is that it consumes much more hard disk space. That's why I use a huge external drive, so that I won't be constrained by the space available on my computer's internal hard disk.

Yes, newer iPod versions can use WAV format instead of the loss-of-data MP3 format. Again, doing so will chew up space on your iPod much more swiftly than using MP3, so it's a tradeoff. Ie, which matters more to you - high quality audio output, or ability to store as many songs as possible on your iPod?

Tourbeau is absolutely right that if your USUAL dance environment involves using a boombox at birthday parties, restaurants, hookah bars, informal haflas, or other noisy situations, then your audio quality won't matter much. When you've got loud background music of clattering dishes and silverware, conversation, waiters talking to patrons, etc., then even the most perfect sound quality on your media won't matter much.

However, if you often dance in theater settings with beautiful acoustics, hushed audiences, and top-quality sound systems, then the difference between wav and mp3 will be obvious. This can be the case at some seminar shows, belly dance festivals, etc.

So, as with many things, consider your venue and prepare your music accordingly.

Here's what I do:

• When possible, I buy my music on CD instead of in MP3 format. It costs more, because I have to buy a whole physical medium with a bunch of songs instead of buying just the one song I want, but the benefit is the higher sound quality of the CD.
• I import all the music to my hard disk from CD using WAV format, not MP3. I use Sound Forge Audio Studio to do it - I extract the song I want from CD into Sound Forge, then I normalize the volume (to avoid the problem where some songs in a mix come through so soft that the sound technician needs to turn up the volume and others blast people out of their seats). From there, I save it to WAV.
• I "add file to library" from iTunes instead of ripping directly from CD via iTunes. The negative is that I don't get iTunes downloading/importing album covers and the like, but that's okay. I don't feel the need to have album covers on my iPod anyway.
• I let iTunes put songs on my iPod in MP3 format. I use the iPod in situations where beautiful tonal quality doesn't really matter, such as for teaching in my classroom or dancing in restaurants.
• When I know I'll be dancing in a situation with beautiful acoustics and hushed audience, I burn a CD from the WAV originals on my computer.

(Part 2)

There are two kinds of CD used for playing music: a "music CD" (which is the older format) and a "data CD loaded with MP3 files" (which is much newer). The first uses a variant of WAV files, preserving the full audio quality, and the second sacrifices audio quality in order to fit more files on disk. Back in 1997 when I first started working with digital music, MP3 files did not exist as a format. They came later. For that reason, many older CD players can't play data CD's loaded with MP3 files, they can only play red book CD's (ie, original "music CD's).

Really old CD players (pre mid-1990's) can't play burnable CD's at all, no matter what music format. There are very few of these left out there, but they do exist. Hope that you don't have a gig that expects you to use one. That's why I always take my boombox with me to gigs, even when they claim to have a CD player.

thanks,now i can make some examples to try.

A wonderful post Shira. You about covered everything.

The only other thing I'd add is that if you have the luxury of doing so, it's a good idea to test your performance CDs all the way through after you've burned them--no matter what format or software you've used--on a playback device that isn't the computer you burned them on, and preferably isn't even a computer at all (like a car stereo or a boombox). Computers tend to have smarter and more flexible audio software than playback-only devices, and sometimes you can head off surprises like failure to process track markers correctly or complete failure to read by pre-testing before the gig on non-computer systems.

I keep everything. EVERYTHING. But I have space for it.

One question -- what format is AIFF? I was once told this is the format you want for the highest quality sound reproduction. Is that outdated now?

Originally Posted by aziyade

I keep everything. EVERYTHING. But I have space for it.

One question -- what format is AIFF? I was once told this is the format you want for the highest quality sound reproduction. Is that outdated now?

AIFF is Apple's equivalent to WAV. It is used for their high end music and film production software. It is not obsolete.

Ah, okay! Thank you!!

I keep my Cds I have a lot of out of print stuff you can't find online and if i burn a Cd from the computer for performance i play it in my old cd walkman, my stereo although if i can get kiss-kiss not to skip skip I'd be golden. I'm still behind the times and rather buy a CD than album of mp3s.

i just re-uploaded a song in a .wav format.
the cd recording had some jacked-up changes in volume, so i had to edit it in garage band before i could even add it to the set, but i told it to not compress, and then opened the version of the set i had made last week.

this is a screen shot of the music, the top was imported as an MP3 then edited and exported to iTunes in a compressed .aif.
the bottom is the song imported as a .wav, then edited and exported to iTunes as an UNcompressed .aif. i lined them up and played the two tracks at the same time, they match perfectly as far as alignment, any differences you see are what is missing from the music in the top track. (click the thumbnail to see)
mp3-aif.jpg
i guess being used to bad speakers and MP3 players i didn't notice what i was missing, but after seeing it, im convinced now ^_^