Thread: Samai

Am looking for some nice samai pieces (full songs, not parts of routines)

what is your favourite version of lamma badda?

x
artemisia

Theres a nice version on Jalilah 3 Journey of the gypsy dancer

In Turkey / Egypt there are 2 samaee tracks - one a 10/8 and the other a 6/8. The 10/8 is not Lamma Badda, but just as lovely. Sayyid Darwish wrote one as well, Ya Shadi al-Alhan.

Are you looking for works with Samai Thaqil rhythm or is it Qaleb Samai compositions that you seek?

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

Are you looking for works with Samai Thaqil rhythm or is it Qaleb Samai compositions that you seek?

i started out looking for versions of lamma badda, but now just want to listen to anything new samai-ish.

what's the difference?

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i started out looking for versions of lamma badda, but now just want to listen to anything new samai-ish.

what's the difference?

By 'samai-ish" I suspect it's either the rhythm you're after in particular or the Muwashah genre in general. Either are popular on Bhuz so hopefully you'll receive many good suggestions.

I found a couple of lovely albums on emusic, but I don't have my ipod on me. I'll try to look it up once I'm home this evening. If I don't answer, please bump the thread up, otherwise, I'll forget!

i thought it was "mushawah"?

and what is the difference between the two samais you mentioned? i didnt know there were two?

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i thought it was "mushawah"?

and what is the difference between the two samais you mentioned? i didnt know there were two?

The style of poetry written during the Andalusian period is called muWashah. I guess where you read it got the letters mixed up. Dyslexia maybe?

There are many types of samaee rhythms, developed by the Ottomans according to my research. Samaee thaqil is the 10/8 associated with Lamma Bada. Tourbeau has listed a wonderful web site that explains all the different types. I don't remember the link off hand, but look on some of the other recent threads about samaee. I am not familiar with a song written to the second rhythm Alexandrian mentioned. I do know the Yuruk samaee because I released a piece to it on Egypt / Turkey. But that's 6/8.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

and what is the difference between the two samais you mentioned? i didnt know there were two?

As pointed out by others, Samai (and its various cousins) is a rhythm. Qaleb Samai on the other hand is a compositional format. It originated from the Bashraf and eventually replaced it.

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

As pointed out by others, Samai (and its various cousins) is a rhythm. Qaleb Samai on the other hand is a compositional format. It originated from the Bashraf and eventually replaced it.

Yes, I'm sorry, I should have been more precise. There are two different meanings for the word samaee - one is a type of rhythm and the other is a musical composition based on the muwashahat from Andalusia (700-950s CE). It had 7 parts, usually set to specific rhythms. I wrote about it in the booklet.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

...muwashahat from Andalusia...

How about inspired by?

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Tourbeau has listed a wonderful web site that explains all the different types.

This one? Arabic Music Links

There's a bit of talk about the construction of the samai here Arabic Musical Forms, but I don't see any indication that they talk about the Qaleb Samai form at Maqam World.

Is this an example of Qaleb Samai? I'm going by the (ever-reliable) YouTube description...

looks like I have quite a bit:

album: Classical Arabic Music artist: Afif Alvarez Bulos

album: La Musica de Andalus artist: Ensemble Al Ruzafa

album: Heartbeats from the Middle East artist: Fernando Perez and Mohammed Antar

album: Ahla Andalusi artist: Maher Kamal

album: Marrakesh: Bellydance Percussao

album: Dance from Istanbul

album: Melodies and Rhythms of Arabic Music

album: Oriental Violin - Middle Eastern Instrumental Music

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

This one? Arabic Music Links

There's a bit of talk about the construction of the samai here Arabic Musical Forms, but I don't see any indication that they talk about the Qaleb Samai form at Maqam World.

Is this an example of Qaleb Samai? I'm going by the (ever-reliable) YouTube description...

Yeah. The referenced website's description of Samai is actually that of the Qaleb (Qaleb=Format) not the rhythm.

The "Samai El Erian" clip you reference is one work that is often used to teach the thing since it's one of the earliest and simplest examples of it. It's a bit antiquated however and gives the impression that it is something of a bygone era. It remians an active commpositional format however and is of interest to today's composers. Here is a good modern example:



As you might conclude, this is likely NOT what the OP seeks.

A couple of noted artists who recorded a number of muwashahat are the legendary Lebanese singer Feirouz and the Syrian singer Sabah Fakhri. Not all recordings by these artists are muwashahat though, so be sure to check the description of a given CD to see if it mentions muwashahat in particular.

I have translations for a couple of them on my web site:

• Billadhi Askara. Was recorded by Feirouz. The rhythm is 3/4 or 6/8. Arabic Music: English Translation of Lyrics for Billadhi Askara, a Traditional Arab Mwashaha
• El Bulbul Nagha. Was recorded by Sabah Fakhri. I think this one is maqsoum rhythm, but it's been a long time since I listened to it so I could be remembering wrong. Arabic Music: English Translation of Lyrics for El Bulbul by Sabah Fakhri

Reinforcing what was said earlier on this thread, not all muwashahat are 10/8. So, are you looking for the genre in general, or are you wanting to be more specific to that rhythm?

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

Yeah. The referenced website's description of Samai is actually that of the Qaleb (Qaleb=Format) not the rhythm.

Can you clarify the nomenclature here? The clip I linked is labeled "Samai Bayati-Ibrahim Al Aryan," so al-Aryan/Erian is the composer, with the music being a Samai Qaleb format composition in Maqam Bayati, right? The opening time signature looks like 10/8 (at least as far as the resolution on my monitor), but you're saying it is or isn't a Samia Thaqil rhythm?

Here is a good modern example:

And this is Abdo Dagher's Samai Qaleb format composition in Maqam Kurd then? In Samai Thaqil or something else?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Can you clarify the nomenclature here? The clip I linked is labeled "Samai Bayati-Ibrahim Al Aryan," so al-Aryan/Erian is the composer, with the music being a Samai Qaleb format composition in Maqam Bayati, right? The opening time signature looks like 10/8 (at least as far as the resolution on my monitor), but you're saying it is or isn't a Samia Thaqil rhythm?

You got it all correctly. And, the rhythm Ibrahim Al Eryan employs is indeed Samai Thaqil. Early Qaleb Samai compositions from that period did use Samai Thaqil almost exclusively.

And this is Abdo Dagher's Samai Qaleb format composition in Maqam Kurd then? In Samai Thaqil or something else?

That is also correct. However, as I mentioned above, Samai Thaqil rhythm is no longer paramount with modern Qaleb Samai compositions. Rhythm recedes to the background (rhythm ceases to become a driving force for modern compositions after Sayed Darwish showed that rhythmically driven compositions such as Muwashahat are essentially musically inferior). In this piece by El Dagher, four different rhythms, including Samai Thaqil, are used.