Thread: Student problem

I went out tonight to teach a class. At the beginning of my class I told all the students that if they did not have a choreography down correctly that they would not be able to dance it in the upcoming Gala show. I have several gals who stay after the class to rehearse and get together during the week for rehearsals for our upcoming Annual Gala in March. Some of the gals are doing a wonderful job, putting alot of practice time in. Tonight, the gals were practicing facing away from the mirror and one of the students got real upset and said that she cannot dance that way. She said she learned to dance facing the mirror and that she cannot do the choreography facing another way. It makes her dizzy?????? (Further information - we will be facing South when we dance this at the Gala Show and the mirrors in the studio face North) Last week she gave one of the gals a really rough time about this same matter. Because I stayed this evening during the rehearsal (I do not normally stay until a few weeks before the show and we have several rehearsals with myself present) I spoke up and suggested she try to dance in every direction along with the other gals. She went to the back of the room and got changed to leave the studio. I went to talk with her suggesting that she stay and try to dance with the other gals, that if she did not have the choreography down correctly she would not be able to dance in the Gala show to which she replied "I heard you giving that lecture at the beginning of the class" and "stop treating me like a child". I said "well you are acting like a child making this scene" and she replied "are you happy now" and walked out of the studio. I want to add that this person is a special ed school teacher. Since last September this student has been very moody one week and the next in a good mood. This is affecting other students.
#1. I do not feel that she was treating myself and her bellydance sisters with any respect wanting things to go her way only and
#2. How do you handle someone like this who wants things their way only and passes on negativity to other students??????? And the teacher!!!!!!!
HELP!!!!!

I'm sorry yu were out in this situation, but IMPO just got to put your foot down. I agree she was the one who was acting like a spoiled little...anyway her behavior is rude and disruptive, anyway you can ask her to leave the class?

Thanx for your input. Needless to say I am rather upset as we live in a small City and everyone is always bumping into everyone and we do not need this type of negativity in dance.

How does she expect to be able to perform if she can only dance facing mirrors??

Ah the pleasures of teaching (paying?) adult students.W hen you address then you have to balance that with the fact you want a discplined troupe of dancers.
Of course she's got to realise that she can't always face the mirrors..there'll be an audience out there. Of course you are right to say not good enough...don't perform..that's how we raise standards.
BUT think all day long she is in charge and the roles are reversed.mmmmmm
It's not easy but if you don't mind me saying you made a mistake responding to her outburst with like for like. "Sorry I know it can be nervewracking but this really is best for the group to get it right" She needed reassurance not a slap down. You had made it plain at the start and think on, she was probably getting wound up all the way through the class and rehearsal.
I have a student who had no intentions of performing but she agreed to do so for a fund raiser and it was torture for her..she hated it but didn't want to let us down ( as she saw it) .I think we need to make it plain we don't think less of those who don't perform and they can cop out as well as supporting those who are determined.
yes she was being childish and I bet she knew it without you telling her. Can you contact her and make peace. Tell her about your own hopes and fears for the performance. Let her know you'd like her to perform if she's comfortable but that if she's uneasy you don't think any the less of her.

PS Her job is a very stressful job...I taught SN kids integrated in mainstream and beleive me it's hard work..any teaching is. So after a stressful day at work...those people who come to belly dance classes and attend belly dance functions expect release from that.
I know we aren't social workers/ counsellors.. I refuse to fulfill that role as well...but I think we have to be aware that what goes on in the day is bound to impinge on some folks..they found it very hard to switch off.
I was lucky..I did..the music started and I was in another world but others did bring their stresses into class.

Thank you very much Lizajuk for being the advocate. Makes sense.

Thank you Lizajuk-Kadife for being as we say the "devil's advocate". What you say makes sense.

I understand your frustration! I do agree with this, though:

Originally Posted by lizajuk

It's not easy but if you don't mind me saying you made a mistake responding to her outburst with like for like. "Sorry I know it can be nervewracking but this really is best for the group to get it right"

And the solution:

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Can you contact her and make peace. Tell her about your own hopes and fears for the performance. Let her know you'd like her to perform if she's comfortable but that if she's uneasy you don't think any the less of her.

I'm wondering if she was using things she saw in the mirror (clock, light fixture, etc) as reference points and then got confused when she couldn't do that anymore. (Maybe you can ask her what she meant by dizzy.. did she mean confused or disoriented?) If she has the movements down, that's great - I imagine that with more practice she could work this out. Maybe you can encourage her strengths, but give her the option of not performing if she's not comfortable.

sry, posted same time as you

Years ago, there was a student like this in my class. I was a baby belly but the other students didn't like HER attitude. You didn't do anything wrong - your students reflect your teaching by dancing in your showcase; if you feel a student doesn't know it yet, you are right to not let her perform.

I can't add a lot of advice because I'm not a teacher myself.

But as a student in a troupe, I can say from experience that it is EXTREMELY stressful when you're preparing for a show and it becomes clear that one of the troupe mates isn't prepared to get on stage.

As Taj asked, above: If she can't dance without the mirror, how is she going to handle being on stage?!! Her troupe mates are certain to know she very unprepared.

In my experience, with every week and every rehearsal, students begin to wonder "When is the director going to put her foot down? Are we going to be expected to perform with this person? What happens if she freaks out at the last minute?" It just makes them uncomfortable and anxious!

So I think you did what you had to do. The rest of your students will be relieved.

Originally Posted by veritate

So I think you did what you had to do. The rest of your students will be relieved.

I know we were! And she didn't ever practice outside of class either. The instructor encouraged her to go down a level until she felt more confident in her knowledge.

I just want to say that I know it is important to practice the dance away from the mirrors. I feel that a student relies on the mirrors to watch the other dancers when they are unsure of what move comes next. Plus, I also feel that if you know the dance, you should be able to dance it on any wall - not just the one facing the mirrors. I do like to be well prepared for my dance performances - practice, practice, practice - and not have to rely on someone else to indicate to me the move that comes next.

I also do not feel that a student should be disrespectful to her instructor. We are all there to learn, have fun and enjoy this wonderful dance form. When words are spoken between a student and an instructor, it makes for an uncomfortable situation all the way around. And, I don't feel that an instructor needs to cater to a disrespectful student either. Either the student knows the dance or she doesn't. When a student just ups and leaves a class rather than trying to perform without relying on mirrors, it certainly indicates to me that they do not know that dance well enough to use their own "brain" to remember the steps. That behaviour raises "flags" - obviously they tend to rely on the mirrors to watch the other students to see what part comes next. But, I certainly do not like it when a student is disrespectful to an instructor - it really does put a damper on the remainder of the class and that is not why I go there. I have a lot of stress in my life, (a husband who has been in the hospital due to strokes since Christmas, a pregnant daughter-in-law that is dealing with cancer, another son that is dealing with illness, a sick mother who lives with me), and classes and the sisterhood of bellydance are my release so I want to be able to go and enjoy and learn and not have to listen to the "whiners".

I know, myself, I have a lot of practicing to do before our annual Gala and I've got to buckle down and get to it!!!! So, this is the week to get myself in order! And, I do appreciate my instructor - she is always willing to listen and to help us with any moves that we may be having problems with. She's been a wonderful teacher over the years and I hope she continues teaching for many more years!

Thank you SuzyQ that was very nice.

Kind of shocking - maybe I'm old skool, but there used to be a performing ethic - every choreographer I ever worked with (especially the Modern Dance divas of years ago) expected that every dancer on stage would work until they were able to perform the movements they'd learned facing north, south, east west, backwards, on their head, blindfolded, left right front center and as a soloist. Today I still feel compelled to drill drill drill to make myself, my teacher, and everyone else look as good as possible. Neurotic? Don't know. Maybe. But I think there's something going on with this student that has nothing to do with you or her role as a recital performer. Sorry that you have to deal with this. Perhaps the previous posters have a point, that she needs compassion - see if it works. See if you can quietly coax her to dance away from the mirror, if you have the time and patience. If not, she must be made to see that as a matter of simple logic, she just cannot have a mirror before her in performance.

The relationship between any student and teacher is a complex one. As a teacher you have a responsibilty to inform an individual student to the best of your ability. A student has a responsibility to do their best to take on board what you teach and in a way that they always consider others.
But it is not a High school situation. A BD teacher is teaching adults who have paid a fee and who are not children in compulsory education.
If a student is rude to her teacher or other students,she will need taking aside and asked to co operate preferably in private. I once had to speak to a group of 9 women who had come together obviously for a giggle.."Please listen carefully to me because you could end up harming yourself or others".I played the Heath and Safety card but all the time I am aware that I am a paid employee of an evening college course and I am not still in a class of restless Y9s (the behaviour may not seem so different)
I'm sorry but this is where I think anyone teaching needs to prepare themselves for the job of "teaching" and not just being able to bellydance. Many of us who feel "the calling" are naturally good communicators, the desire to teach spurs us on but it isn't easy and we are not dealing with youngsters but with men and women who have been at work all day,with the kids all day or who have personal issues,health issues: it's a huge responsibility. The student/teacher relationship is complicated by the fact that many will see you, the teacher as doing all the giving/providing and not see their own responsibility to the art form.
We know we have a responsibilty to presenting and promoting the dance. So when it comes to performance,we don't want people there on stage who will not represent well what we do. This is why I downplay performance somewhat these days so people don't feel pressure.I want people to feel there is the option you can learn how to do this dance and use it how you chose be that social bopping or on a stage.
I have a seperate group of more experienced students who get together and we plan together. This is Egyptian style belly dance and the students also go with me to workshops and when we dance it's not just for fun so it should be as good as we can get it.
In the main college course I will carry on mentoring the more dedicated tribal dancers as a troupe through the summer break with a view to a regional platform but this is not an event for our community alone so they have to realise the responsibility to be entertaining and informative.

Contd:
If the college put on an Egyptian course and the students want to dance at a local hafla then I will put together a simple choreo. and make it plain it is about minimal expense and doing your best. But after 12 weeks no one is gonna be BDSS but if they want to show off they deserve a chance. I will polish them as best I can.
I resist being a "social worker" but I do have a responsibility as a teacher to meet the needs of an individual. I have a student with specific health problems I need my First Response training, I have stdents who have been to classes they didn't enjoy:I have damage to undo,I have youngsters who think it's just about being sexee Lexie and need putting right ( in the right way),I have a very talented dancer who is a bundle of unwarrented insecurities, those with no cofidence , those with rather too much..and not much time in which to get to know them

FWIW I can totally relate to the mirror thing - the first class choreography I ever performed had lots of sequences that got repeated only reversed, and when we faced the other way ... eek, disastrous. You think you know it, then suddenly it all goes wrong, and if you are feeling the pressure to perform it soon, be good enough, not let others down, after a bad day...

With me it wasn't actually looking in the mirror, it was the geography - I'd subconsciously pinned it all on here's the mirror, there's the window, the door... I still learn choreo's the same, not being very left-right literate, but I actively try to memorize it in a moveable virtual room (if that makes sense) rather than the real one. Face me the other way and my virtual studio comes too!

Maybe having a chat with her about different learning styles and what works for her would help you both pin down why she feels she needs the mirror (fixed on the room layout? watching herself? other people?...) and focus on strategies to get past it. It might be easily fixable after a bit of analysing, which it won't be in the "I am so useless and I'm letting everyone down and I'm so frustrated - waaaaahh!!!! ..cr.:" phase.

[QUOTE=lizajuk;614834]The relationship between any student and teacher is a complex one. As a teacher you have a responsibilty to inform an individual student to the best of your ability. A student has a responsibility to do their best to take on board what you teach and in a way that they always consider others.
I agree with all of this. Reread Lizajuk's post, very helpful. A teacher has a large burden of responsibility, in any field. I know almost all teachers here study their jobs as teachers and are very conscientious, hence questions and request for input & guidance. That being said, there are many schools of thought on the profession of teaching. Disruptive students are a problem in any class, whether from acting out, talking with friends, arguing, etc. Some students need more coddling, and this is where teachers differ at where they will draw the line in the sand. I try to avoid getting to the place where the OP's description happens- which is basically a student having a mini flounce or whatever, regardless of why. The problem student will get to that place because she feels frustrated and that may be due to her own issues, or perceived issues with teacher. After yrs of experience & certification, I can spot students with issues fairly easily. Everyone has issues of course, and as Lizajuk reminds us, adult students are different from 7th graders for example. lol.
Using the safety concern is a great tool to keep talkers on track!
Yes, the worst thing to do is argue back or go to the prob. student's level of frustration. Do we do this because we are human? I know because I have done this and regretted it! One of the hardest skills for me to learn has been to find the right balance for my type of teaching set between compassion & coddling; and to think before I speak.
If I put my foot in my mouth, "I'm sorry I responded too [quickly, harshly, without thought etc] Let's talk about how to help you proceed." If I need to go to the place of "You can't have a mini tantrum in my class!!" I need to think about how to address that.
But usually if I am going along, in control, firm yet pleasant, setting clear & written guidelines, establishing no overabundance of giggling & chat, and using my powerful sense of fun & humor, I have less issues with students. Sometimes I have one that I know will be trouble and they will leave class at some point & not return. Thank goodness.

PS Isn't this "Problems" topic about problems with the site? This thread belongs in the "Instructors" I believe.

Stick to your guns. As others have said - your other students will thank you for it. It's infuriating when someone "behaving badly" or "not up to par" are catered do. Group performances shouldn't be focused on having everyone performing to the lowest standard, and as a student myself - that is a good way to lose the best dancers.

Also, from many classes in the past, people with this attitude often drop out when confronted about it. But perhaps she was having an off day, and she'll be ok. She might even apologize. But SHE should make the effort, not you. [harsh, but you as the instructor can't be everybody's buddy-buddy, mommy].

Yes, I definitely agree stick to your guns as far as your rules and guidelines go. Working things out with issue-prone students may mean letting them gracefully drop out! [or as I call it in my day job "career counseling"]
Everyone has bad days, but repeat offenders of acting out need not be tolerated. I feel it is up to me as a teacher to utilize the best tools and skill set that I can implement to run a rewarding class, both for myself and the students.

This is a really interesting thread.

While I do think you should stay with your rules, I also agree you should try to make peace... putting myself in the place of that student, I suspect that she doesn't know the choreo as well as she would like and simply feels embarrassed about being "called" on it in front of the group. Could you possibly offer her a private practice session with you... or if she has a particular friend in the class, suggest they practice together off site at a different time? When she is calmer she may decide it's important to her to participate, but she may not know how to make the first move towards a truce.

I want to thank you all for your input. I have read each one with the utmost of respect for all your opinions. I must tell you that this student has been with me for 4 years @ 3 classes per week, comes in late and does not do warmups (bothers other dancers) and does not work on anything that is being performed. This latest stance that has been taken is a new one to me as we always work in a N-S-E-W sequence and I believe it was because I was not there the first time for rehearsals to supervise that this issue happened to be. This was the first evening I stayed after a regular class to watch the rehearsal as it was something students arranged by themselves and I do not involve myself until before the performance. Like a month before. I do believe this is a student that wants EVERYTHING their own way. As I said I have never experienced this before when myself is present during the rehearsals with the exception of all my very dedicated students tell me that this student is always right and they are always wrong.

I

She's not a happy girl and you need a heart to heart with her. She needs to be told she must do warm-up if that's what you want and that she is upsetting other dancers. Sounds like she has been getting away with things for a while.
Give her all the leeway you can,cut her the slack and if she won't play the game then you really do have to consider the comfort of the others.
I really do think she is someone who cannot leave her daytime stresses behind her..she probably operates all day like a coiled spring BUT she cannot spoil things for others.
I now I said I refuse to be some kind of amateur counsellor but if she has been a loyal student for 4 years, you might feel a face to face chat with the chance for her to get things off her chest AND for you to set out is your stall for the best. Whatever you are right to think things cannot continue like this. You have the rest of the class to consider.

Her job is a very stressful job...I taught SN kids integrated in mainstream and beleive me it's hard work..any teaching is. So after a stressful day at work...those people who come to belly dance classes and attend belly dance functions expect release from that.

I'm also a regular ed teacher with integrated special needs students with the special needs teacher running between 2 rooms attempting to help 22 kids with a variety of mental/emotional problems. We have students melting down at least 3 times a day and it is a draining, frustrating job. And when I say meltdown, I mean screaming, crying, throwing objects, pushing us and just generally losing it. Couple that with the others who are reading on a first grade level and are in fifth grade and must pass a standardized test in May on a fifth grade level, well, it makes a whole lot of bad days for teachers.

Ok, I feel better now :))

p.s. she does sound bratty though! Does she think the audience members will be holding up mirrors?

I think you acted appropriately. That class belongs to the class, not to one person. If she's constantly stressing others out and refusing to cooperate, I say she can take a hike.

Personally, I would not want a mealy-mouthed teacher who would rather pander to anyone with an attitude than stand up for the rest of the class. I'm in class because I want to be, and anyone who doesn't want to be can find another class or private lessons that suit her better.

Cut your loses. Ban her from coming back. She just sounds too difficult to have as a student.