Ebay VS Etsy posts on this forum

[invokethegoddess]

My post regarding a few skirt listings on etsy was removed and I am confused as to why. I make very few items 3 or 4 costumes (if that) a year and a few skirts now and then and I do not post them on the swap meet because some people in the past have considered me a vendor and I do not want to step on any toes. The retail swap meet is not the place for me either because I only occasionally take custom orders and I maybe have 1 or 2 items every 6 months to sell...I do not consider myself retail. I have followed the rules and not clogged up the swap meet and instead have posted on the much slower "ebay watch". I don't Bump my items constantly. I feel that I am a pretty considerate Bhuzzer.
I have have started selling on Etsy more than eBay because of so much scamming going on through ebay and I have now been told that my items on Etsy aren't allowed to be posted on the "ebay watch" forum.
I am very confused by this situation.

I would like to know why my post was deleted. I don't feel that it's fair.

[invokethegoddess]

The 4th post on the ebay section is regarding costumes for sale on facebook..http://www.bhuz.com/forum/ebay-watch...ila-cairo.html
..how is this any different than me posting costumes for sale on etsy??

I wrote Rosey a message a while ago asking if we could have the Ebay watch section changed to add Etsy now that many dancers are selling items on etsy and I never received a response.

[Rosette]

I would have no problem with expanding "E-bay watch" to include Etsy. Etsy doesn't allow re-sale of anything not hand-made by the seller except art/craft materials and items old enough to fall into a "vintage" category. I can't remember how old vintage re-sale items have to be, but truly old, not just "second hand". And there are sellers who cheat on Etsy but they do get after people who are reported for re-selling.

So I see Etsy as non-retail or at most "retail on a VERY limited scale", while on E-bay there's a wild mix of retail and non, with lots of what's available being mass-produced or previously purchased wholesale to be re-sold.

I am thinking though that maybe this situation just hasn't come up before -?

Or do we want an "Etsy Watch" forum? There's certainly lots of cool costumery items on Etsy that dancers would be interested in bringing to each other's attention.

If perchance the issue is just that it's the actual seller doing the posting, then I think we get a lot of that going on with E-bay Watch postings about E-bay items, don't we?

Rosette

[amarasdance]

Personally, I love seeing posts for Etsy, because I love shopping Etsy, and I want to see what's out there (and especially would like to support Bhuzzers)

[invokethegoddess]

I am confused to what the actual issue is. I just received a message from Rosey saying "I am terribly sorry, but you are not allowed to post Etsy items on the Ebay forum. Your post has been removed".

It is very confusing because I have posted my etsy items a few times on that forum and have never had my posts removed. In fact there is a post for my costumes on their right now...as well as the post for items for sale of facebook.

I feel like I am unfairly being targeted.

[invokethegoddess]

There has been a discussion before regarding etsy postings...I wish I could find it.

A few minutes ago I could access 3 pages of back posts on the ebay forum....now the settings have been changed and we are only allowed to access the last 30 posts.

[EzmaSiddiqah]

I would love to see an area for etsy, or to combine etsy and ebay. I agree with you Invoke!!! Your items should not have been deleted!

[invokethegoddess]

Thanks for the support Ezma!

I do believe that there is room for Etsy and eBay and have asked Rosey to consider it.

[Rosey]

Sorry for the confusion, you deserve an explanation for why we draw a distinction between Etsy & Ebay.

Why free advertising for Ebay and not Etsy? BHUZ is part of an Ebay affiliate program, and that gives us a little $ from sales made from the Ebay listings. Etsy does not have an affiliate program, and it would be frankly unfair to give Etsy sellers free advertising when everyone else who promotes their things on BHUZ supports the website by paying for advertising (indirectly, in the case of the Ebay listings).

Etsy does not have an affiliate program. Please, all of you Etsy members, beseech Etsy to start an affiliate program, and when it does, we will welcome your listings for free.

You have free ways on BHUZ to promote your businesses - in your profile, in the tags on your signature in every post you make.

Believe me, BHUZ is expensive to run! We need the paid support of advertisers. BHUZ does not make a profit, it charges no membership fees, all our advertising receipts go back into supporting and growing the site. BHUZ has to be run as a business, with an eye to making sure it stays solvent. There has to be a level playing field for advertisers -- if Etsy members can promote their wares for free, why would our dearly beloved paying advertisers want to pay?

:Aohmy:

Regarding why you are not able to see some past posts on the Ebay Forum -- every month or so, I delete very old posts on the Swap Meet and Ebay forums, and I happened to do that this morning. Ebay posts are kept for a month with no activity, and swap meet posts are kept for 90 days with no activity.

[invokethegoddess]

The retail section is not inexpensive for me. Again...I may make items and sell them...but I do it on a very small scale...3 or 4 costumes a year...I am a hobbyist costume designer not a large or even medium scale business. Retail Swap Meet Forum & Shopping - $150 for 6 months, $275 for 12 months would be ridiculous to spend if you only have 1 costume or 3or 4 skirts for sale in 6 months.

I will just re-list my items on ebay rather than etsy. Unfortunately for members of bhuz, I will have to charge more for my items to account for listing on ebay.

[invokethegoddess]

I personally don't think that this posting should be removed but I don't think facebook has an affiliate program

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/ebay-watch...ila-cairo.html

[invokethegoddess]

Rosey, maybe you should consider a monthly retail subscription. I have no problem paying for advertising...but 3 or 4 months can go by that I may not have any items for sale. I would consider paying on a monthly basis.

[Rosey]

That is a good idea, and we have done that occasionally. The charge is $35 per month.

Send me a note via "Contact Us" at the bottom of the page if you want to do that.

[invokethegoddess]

I have sent you a message Rosey

[EzmaSiddiqah]

I would pay a little more for costuming items Invoke so you don't have to eat the monthly charge.

[invokethegoddess]

That's great to know Ezma! I try to keep my items affordable. I try to make items that are unique and hard to find and don't really want or need to advertise to the world. The dancers of Bhuz are my main focus and I would eliminate my selling on ebay and Etsy for an affordable spot on Bhuz where I am not crossing any lines or ruffling any feathers by selling the few items that I have.
Rosey's offer of a monthly subscription is a reasonable solution. I wish it had been offered or that I had known of it sooner and I wouldn't have been so frusterated with the retail vs. ebay forums

[Asra*]

That's great to know Ezma! I try to keep my items affordable. I try to make items that are unique and hard to find and don't really want or need to advertise to the world. The dancers of Bhuz are my main focus and I would eliminate my selling on ebay and Etsy for an affordable spot on Bhuz where I am not crossing any lines or ruffling any feathers by selling the few items that I have.
Rosey's offer of a monthly subscription is a reasonable solution. I wish it had been offered or that I had known of it sooner and I wouldn't have been so frusterated with the retail vs. ebay forums

I'm glad you found a solution to this. You're right, $150 for a 6-month advertising charge would not make sense for occasional sellers and it sucks to have to rely on eBay to post your stuff.

The monthly charge lets each seller choose what works best for them - great idea.

[invokethegoddess]

yes, especially since the rates just went up...in the last few minutes...an hour ago it was $150 for 6 months, $275 for 12 months (copy and pasted from the advertising page.
now it's
$35 for one month, $200 for 6 months, $385 for 12 months

[Lauren_]

It makes sense to me.

Making items for resale is a business -- whether it's a few items a year or a few items a day. It's not the same thing as people unloading used items.

Of course advertising is expensive for a very small business, and not all advertising venues are going to be cost effective. But it's not reasonable to expect someone (Rosey) to cover all the costs of creating a network like Bhuz and then use that network for free to market products.

I can't afford cable TV ads for my studio, although I know they'd bring me lots of business. I just don't have that kind of profit margin or a big enough business. But that doesn't mean that cable TV networks are obligated to let me advertise for free. It means I have to find other ways of promoting myself.

I'm not picking on you, Invoke. I love your designs and in fact I posted your Etsy listings on my Facebook page and was helping you promote them in that way. I have nothing against you. But I want to support Rosey. Most dancers and costumers know that one of the hardest parts of being in business (for many women, anyway) is standing up for our right to be paid for what we do.

Rosey has a right to be paid for what she does, too.

[invokethegoddess]

I think the "rules" of posting aren't that clear sometimes and many others have posted on the eBay forum with links to Etsy and Facebook (or others) not knowing where else to post them. Untill I found out today the reason for Rosey allowing eBay and not Etsy, I thought I was doing nothing wrong...and I'm sure others have thought that as well. Others have posted links on the ebay section that aren't to costumes on ebay ( I have before) and they were never deleted nor was it ever explained to me before today as to why ebay is allowed and Etsy is not. I opened up my Etsy account just for this reason. To post links on Bhuz. I considered Etsy the same as eBay.
When you only sell a couple of items, 6 months subscription would be a waste for me. I have no problem with paying for a one month fee and have already done so. The $ isn't the problem...the options that were offered didn't fit my "business".
Until the option of a monthly Retail subscription was introduced today, I thought that eBay and Etsy were my only options. I pay both companies a listing and item ending fee and would rather pay that to Bhuz. Now I can. I would rather support Bhuz than ebay or etsy.
I was upset at the lack of information and options.

Thanks Lauren for the link on your page!! I appreciate the promotion.

[Lauren_]

I was upset at the lack of information and options.

Yes, I understand. That makes perfect sense.

Thanks Lauren for the link on your page!! I appreciate the promotion.

They are gorgeous costumes! I was drooling all over myself.

[jesennia]

I'm in huge support of a monthly fee..especially since I tend to advertise in spurts and I'm dancing so often right now that I have to slow things down periodically.

I'd be up for a weekly rate too :)

[invokethegoddess]

a monthly rate is fine for me right now because I have 2 costumes and a few skirts but I can't see myself being in this situation very often. A weekly rate would be even better. Especially if I have only 1 costume to sell (which is more typical of my business)

[Sarahamh]

yes, especially since the rates just went up...in the last few minutes...an hour ago it was $150 for 6 months, $275 for 12 months (copy and pasted from the advertising page.
now it's
$35 for one month, $200 for 6 months, $385 for 12 months

I'm sorry but this is leaving a very sour taste in my mouth - I don't think posting Rosey's rates is fair game on this thread. Like Lauren said, she is entitled to be paid for all of the hard work she does to keep a forum of this size up and running. So, you've been away and the rules have changed in your absence; I can understand your confusion, but Rosey has been quick to explain her reasons for not allowing Etsy posts, and has even offered you a monthly rate to advertise. This post is accusatory and qute aggressive in tone. Please, if you have a grievance with Rosey, message her privately.

[invokethegoddess]

Perhaps if you were in my shoes yesterday you might understand. My post was deleted with no explanation when others that were similar were not. I was given no explanation and If I had, there would not have been this thread.
A similar thread on the same forum was not deleted but a post was added by Rosey to on that thread to explain that it was not an appropriate place for it. I did not receive that same courtesy.
The rates are posted on this forum in plain site and are not private business. The change in rates were important to this discussion because we had quoted the rate and discussed it earlier in the thread. The rates changed while the thread was active. simple.
If I am accusing anyone of anything it would be a lack of communication. If my post was not in an appropriate section, I deserved to know why. I was clearly upset and more importantly confused by the way it was handled. Now I know, and so does everyone else.
I had messaged Rosey privately and hadn't received a reply.
I'm sorry you're offended by this discussion
I think this is a positive thread.
A solution was found and this thread incited changes that may benefit others on this forum and draw more advertising business for Rosey now that there is a monthly rate.
I see no harm.

[Sarahamh]

I do understand the confusion, as I said in my original post, I am not taking exception to you raising the issue at all. I was referring solely to the 'Rosey has upped her rates...in the last few minutes' comment. I felt that Rosey had by that point explained herself, and offered a monthly advertising rate at a very reasonable price. It isn't that I was personally offended, I simply felt it an unnecessary comment - the issue had at that point been resolved.

[invokethegoddess]

The issue had been resolved but was still being discussed. I was responding to Asra's comment. We were discussing the dollar amount in relation to a small business...that dollar amount changed and was pertinent to the conversation. Rosey obviously revised her advertising charges...whether this discussion incited those revisions or that was already in the works, the need for small business options was only further re-in-forced by the rates changing.

You are misquoting me and using the words "Rosey has upped her rates".
my exact quote is "yes, especially since the rates just went up...in the last few minutes".

I think that you are reading more into my comment than is there.
The way you quoted me, definitely makes me sound snarky, but it is not an accurate quote.

[jesennia]

well crap. anyways..weekly postings would be devilishly cool too..say when we are having a sale or have a few custom order spots open that fill up quick. I'd rather pay by need than a standard flat rate for time I'm not using. Invoke I love your stuff

[Sarahamh]

Invoke, I wasn't trying to quote you, thats why I chose the inverted comma's instead of quoting you directly, I was summarising how the comment read to me. I appreciate that its difficult to convey tone on a forum, but honestly your post did read snarky to me, and it made me uncomfortable. I was simply expressing that perhaps if you still had a grievance with Rosey it would be best to sort it out privately- after all, without Rosey's Trojan effort there wouldn't be a Bhuz for any of us to enjoy :) If there was no snark intended on your part then all is good :) Good luck with your Retail Swap Meet ads!

[invokethegoddess]

The undertone of my comment was that of surprise rather than snark... I'm sorry if it read that way to you.

Jesennia, I agree that weekly posting would be cool with me too. I think that there may be more small bellydance business that shy away from the Retail section because of the options. I mostly make full costumes and I complete 1 costume every 6 weeks or so somtimes faster if I'm on a roll. I make skirts to clear out fabulous fabric every once in a while and a weekly rate would work for me too.
I can't see myself paying a monthly rate ($35.00) to sell 1 costume when I can list it on ebay for around $20.00 listing and closing fees, and then post it for free on Bhuz in the ebay section.
I would have to choose the ebay route. I would rather give the money to bhuz for a weekly rate. I hope Rosey will consider a weekly rate as well.