Thread: RESOLVED! Bad costume, need advice

UPDATE! THIS HAS BEEN RESOLVED. SEE POST #30 BELOW FOR DETAILS.
Bhuzzers,
I am in a terrible dispute over a trade gone wrong. I traded a brand new hanan bedlah for a costume described as "barely worn", and "like new". Well when I got it, it reeked of perfume, was held together with safety pins, and covered in stains. I have been trying to work with the other party to resolve this but she keeps accusing me of lying, and now she says I stained the costume in an attempt at fraud. I emailed her within 12 hours of getting the costume to discuss the damage with her and in each subsequent attempt, she has grown more accusatory against me and refuses to work towards a resolution.
Just tell me, does the costume pictured here look "like new" to you?
If you have sold me a costume or bought/ traded a costume with me in the past, please vouch for my honesty and integrity.
I have had dozens of successful transactions here and am aghast that I am in this situation.
I have opened a claim on paypal and will also be filing a claim with the postal service.

Do you have a link to pictures of the costume?

I'm so sorry you've had this experience. I can't understand why people wouldn't think that their "as new" comment wouldn't be disputed when the item is received by it's new owner. Misrepresentation is certainly grounds for return and refund, so I certainly hope Paypal will help you out if that's the case here.



ETA: I didn't see the link there - the purpley link colour isn't different enough from the black text sorry!

I've had a look through the photos, and I have to say some of the stains are kind of hard to see. I'm assuming that the pictures of the inside-out fabric are just to make the picture clearer rather than the stain only being visible on the underside? The ones on the outside surface of the material would definitely bother me if perhaps it's just a shine/reflect thing making them seem lighter in the pictures.

The bra lining is in a bit of a shocking state, though. That's going to need repaired before the costume can be worn, and therefore should DEFINITELY have been mentioned in the costume listing, to my mind.

I wish you well on your claims. This does not look like a new or barely worn costume to me. It's so sad to read about swaps/sales gone bad on Bhuz. I hope everything can be resolved soon.

costume

Originally Posted by nayastrance

Bhuzzers,
I am in a terrible dispute over a trade gone wrong. I traded a brand new hanan bedlah for a costume described as "barely worn", and "like new". Well when I got it, it reeked of perfume, was held together with safety pins, and covered in stains. I have been trying to work with the other party to resolve this but she keeps accusing me of lying, and now she says I stained the costume in an attempt at fraud. I emailed her within 12 hours of getting the costume to discuss the damage with her and in each subsequent attempt, she has grown more accusatory against me and refuses to work towards a resolution.
Just tell me, does the costume pictured here look "like new" to you?
If you have sold me a costume or bought/ traded a costume with me in the past, please vouch for my honesty and integrity.
I have had dozens of successful transactions here and am aghast that I am in this situation.
I have opened a claim on paypal and will also be filing a claim with the postal service.

Yes those stains are clearly visible, they look like water or tea/coffee stains to me and it wouldn't matter if they are on the inside of the costume or out, they should have been pointed out when listed for sale. The bra is in a sad state as well.I would not be happy with a costume in that state either if these things had not been pointed out and it was stated as new. I believe the seller should take the costume back & refund your money in full, as you will have to pay to ship it back. I know I wouldn't buy a costume in the first place if the condition was clearly stated to be like that.

Sure hope you can work this out or that paypal will refund your money.

That is one tatty bra. The stains, well, they should come out, but the bra..oh, please!

Shame, it looks like a cute costume...I'd be interested in it but ONLY if it were at "fixer-upper" prices.


I've never sold you a costume but I do know that you are a regular on the swap meet, have been for a while, I haven't heard anything bad about you as a customer or a buyer.

I feel better just being supported. What upsets me beyond everything else is that I keep suggesting resolutions and the other party keeps coming up with false statements about my character and has accused me of staining the costume to fraud her.
I have kept copies of all the emails, I have the box the costume was shipped in (she's saying that I stained it or the box did), I posted the pictures on photobucket win 24 hours of getting the costume so there is a date & time stamp on all the pictures & emails. If I had to send the costume to paypal to resolve the dispute you can see that there are not only several different stains, but that there are several different types of stains ---it would be hard to have 1 person do that to purposefully damage a costume.
I hope she realizes we could resolve this really quickly by just returning and refunding each other. We will have lost shipping expenses but that's minor compared to dragging this dispute out.
We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Originally Posted by ozma

Shame, it looks like a cute costume...I'd be interested in it but ONLY if it were at "fixer-upper" prices.


I've never sold you a costume but I do know that you are a regular on the swap meet, have been for a while, I haven't heard anything bad about you as a customer or a buyer.

Thank you, I appreciate you commenting on my established presence on the swap.

I have personally known and danced with Nayasrance for almost 10 years. She and I have bought and sold each other costumes during that time. I can say with 100% accuracy that she is a completely honest person and there is no way in He** that she damaged this costume for any reason. She loves costumes and takes very good care of hers. I also know she particularly wanted a polka dot costume for a long time and would never never never have damaged this. I know that had this costume been in the condition it was described as that Nayastrance would have loved it and worn it several times.

Such a shame people can't take some personal responsibility and learn from their mistakes. It would not have been the end of the world for the original seller of this costume to have returned Nayastrance's new Hanan costume to her and Nayastrance return the damaged costume to the original seller.

that sucks, so sorry to hear that. hope something gets resolved, and quickly.

and looking back on who sold the costume, the bhuzzer only had like 3 posts total..I remember reading once on bhuz, way long ago, that perhaps it's better to buy and deal with well established bhuzzers, for reasons like this

Originally Posted by nayastrance

Bhuzzers,
I am in a terrible dispute over a trade gone wrong. I traded a brand new hanan bedlah for a costume described as "barely worn", and "like new". Well when I got it, it reeked of perfume, was held together with safety pins, and covered in stains. I have been trying to work with the other party to resolve this but she keeps accusing me of lying, and now she says I stained the costume in an attempt at fraud. I emailed her within 12 hours of getting the costume to discuss the damage with her and in each subsequent attempt, she has grown more accusatory against me and refuses to work towards a resolution.
Just tell me, does the costume pictured here look "like new" to you?
If you have sold me a costume or bought/ traded a costume with me in the past, please vouch for my honesty and integrity.
I have had dozens of successful transactions here and am aghast that I am in this situation.
I have opened a claim on paypal and will also be filing a claim with the postal service.

I'm so sorry this happened to you -this costume is certainly not in 'like new' condition, and this Bhuzzer should return your costume along with the postage fees you incurred in sending the costume to her.

I recently had the same experience with a European Bhuzzer - she sold me a dress that she said was new but when I got it it was smelly, stained, and the shiny lycra had been worn in many places, the type of wear that is caused by sweat. I was disgusted, particularly as I had bought it to wear for my baladi set at a wedding in Cairo... she refused to refund me, and now won't answer any pm's or emails. Paypal wouldn't do anything because it was a private sale. Hopefully she is reading this - if I saw a Bhuzzer showing interest in one of her costumes I would definitely let them know how dishonest she is, but my patience I wearing so thin that I think its time to name and shame her!!

Thanks again everyone. I haven't gotten any more communication from the other party or from paypal but I am trying to keep a positive attitude that is focused on resolving this dispute. I know savvy bhuzzers will be able to track the OP for the costume down on the swapmeet based on my photos of the damage. I have decided not to publicly identify her in order to protect my paypal claim and also to preserve my sense of integrity.
If folks have any advice for how to work with the paypal claims process and or other helpful ideas I would love to hear them.
I know there have been many posts about paypal claims on bhuz so I'm searching the archives to increase my knowledge. I will gladly share what I learn about the process as I go through it in the hope of helping others.

Originally Posted by ZanaRaqs

perhaps it's better to buy and deal with well established bhuzzers, for reasons like this

I know!!! That's what is killing me. I give that advice to others here every time this happens to someone else. Why the heck didn't I listen to myself.

Originally Posted by nayastrance

I know!!! That's what is killing me. I give that advice to others here every time this happens to someone else. Why the heck didn't I listen to myself.

In your own defense we all started at post number 1. I have seen somewhat established Bhuzzers that scammed or were dishonest that had many posts behind them. You take a chance every time more or less. I'm just so sorry that you were burned by this ... I hope it is resolved soon. It's bad belly dance karma.

I have so so much experience with paypal claims because most of my income has come through them for the last 6 years. I have been on both sides of the fence and the best way is to call them directly. Ask for the dispute dept. and explain very concisely what's up. Focus on just trying to resolve things. Don't be angry just say that you really wanted it to work out and you've tried everything and are willing to ship it back blah blah blah. You get the idea. If you talk to someone it will usually get resolved in your favor because it shows you care enough to contact them and explain the situation. Also if you are a higher level member they will side with you more readily.

Originally Posted by nayastrance

Thanks again everyone. I haven't gotten any more communication from the other party or from paypal but I am trying to keep a positive attitude that is focused on resolving this dispute. I know savvy bhuzzers will be able to track the OP for the costume down on the swapmeet based on my photos of the damage. I have decided not to publicly identify her in order to protect my paypal claim and also to preserve my sense of integrity.
If folks have any advice for how to work with the paypal claims process and or other helpful ideas I would love to hear them.
I know there have been many posts about paypal claims on bhuz so I'm searching the archives to increase my knowledge. I will gladly share what I learn about the process as I go through it in the hope of helping others.

Maybe I'm just reactionary - I'd also post all the emails and post her name too.

We need a Wall of Shame. Or maybe something like the FBI's "10 Most Wanted" wall

Just search polka dot....all but one of the photos is down now.

Wow, a $450 costume that is "like new" somehow has rips and stains? Is she also accusing you of ripping the bra and putting safety pins in to hold it together? lol

That's a shame. I also have had issues with incorrectly described sale items (only once via Bhuz, eBay has more sharks), but it really hurts more when it's a swap, doesn't it?

I hope that the Paypal dispute goes in your favor. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

Originally Posted by anala

Just search polka dot....all but one of the photos is down now.

Actually the OP was always like that. Several pictures just wouldn't show up on the forum. I don't think the other party is here much and she never followed up with her OP here on Bhuz.
I did hear from her, she's out of town but will be back in touch with me to discuss a possible resolution midweek. Keeping my finger crossed.

Oh, I hate stories like this!! I really hope you find a fair resolution. I also hope it doesn't give a bad name to all of us starting out on here...after all, we have to start somewhere! I have to believe most of us are honest and reputable. I've bought a couple of costumes and I've sold a couple of costumes here and I always try to describe everything as accurately as possible - I would hate it if someone thought I had tried to cheat them. That bra lining should definitely have been disclosed. Good luck!!

For sure, the costume shouldn't have been described as "like new", but it looks to me like the lining has just been removed in places to add or remove padding from the bra and then safety pinned as a quick fix by someone who didn't bother or didn't have the sewing experience to patch it back up. It sucks to get a costume in a condition you didn't expect but it would take me about 5 minutes to fix that bra...is all of the damage/stains on the inside/bottom? Can you take it to a dry cleaner and seamstress and see if the seller will reimburse you those costs? I'm pretty sure they would be minor.

Originally Posted by Letitia

... it looks to me like the lining has just been removed in places to add or remove padding from the bra and then safety pinned as a quick fix by someone who didn't bother or didn't have the sewing experience to patch it back up... Can you take it to a dry cleaner and seamstress and see if the seller will reimburse you those costs?

Naaaaah, that's a heavily worn bra. You can see how the fabric is kind of worn through from pulling and friction at the side strap near the cup. It's that that annoyed me the most about the costume, because it implies heavy wear and therefore certainly not "as new" or only worn a couple times.

I'm not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK I couldn't find a dry cleaner who was willing to touch my costumes - they were too afraid of damaging them! And they always wanted me to sign a waiver to say that they wouldn't be held responsible for any damage/colour issues, which.. dudes, NO I'M NOT SIGNING THAT.

*sigh*

So at-home steamers and vodka sprays and incense stick burning were it for me. If I were Nayastrance I sure wouldn't want to take the risk of taking the costume into OMG DISASTER territory at the mercy of a dry cleaner, but maybe dry cleaning services are better over there.

Do you like the costume? Does it fit and flatter?
Maybe it's just worth it to replace the lining and try to take out the stains with woolite or oxyclean. And maybe replace the elastic. I'm not sure what your trade/$$ sale involved but if you love it and don't think the claim is going to go well it might be better to turn it into a positive experience somehow.

If she refuses to respond or take any action, post the pictures and alll the information on her Facebook page. I guarantee you that will work. I did that for a NSF check that was written to Scottie for tickets to Bedouin Bazaar. She sent her a note and got no response. The woman didn't have her own FB page, but I put it on the Bazaar FB page, and by some strange way, the money appeared in the bank a few days later.

I am so sorry about your experience. It has happen to me even with reliable BHUZZERS. I have had rips/stains on trades that were meant to be new and I have purchased costumes that were way too big on me because they posted the wronf measurements and adjustments cost time and money. I don't expect everthing to be perfect. I know with ever costume there needs to be adjustments but when it is outragest it is very heartbreaking. Good luck.

oh no... I'm so sorry this happened. I got burned big time once on here too, and I was left with a disgrace of a costume and nothing I could do about it. I hope she makes it right for you!

Commiserations. This is so unfair and as with similar happneings on Swapmeet, I really do think people should be named and shamed. We do have different ideas on what is "good condition"..the odd small spot would faze some and not others but that bra is beyond the pale.
It has been easy to trace her and her website and facebook and it makes you wonder why anyone well established in the community should want to get a poor reputation. How easy is it just to send the swap back or refund money and keep the peace?

Hello,
oh no - I´m so sorry thast this happened to you.
But I ordered some costumes directly from egypt and I can tell you: some of them (brandnew and custom made) were in the same condition. They didn´t look like new, they were sewn with "hot needle", some pearls fell down when I pulled the costume out of the package, they had staind in the fabric, too...
...but the lining of the bra of your costume looks horrible - there´s not enough material. Or did you (or the previous owner) pull out padding? Then it could happen that there´s not enough material for the ling without padding...

Did you hear back from the previous owner? What do you want to do???
Maybe you could find an arrangement an keep the costume (if you like it).

I hope you will find a good solution.

Bye,
Shirin

UPDATE:
The other party and I have reached a resolution. Although I think the experience was frustrating for both of us, we did keep communicating and ultimately reached a compromise. The other party contacted me to offer a resolution and I accepted. It was totally one of those situations where neither one of us was going to get 100% but we did work together to negotiate terms we could live with. In the end, that is the best way to solve a dispute.
If you are someone who tracked the identity of this person, please remember that although I was upset, she did ultimately work with me towards a resolution. I think this swap is more a reflection on her relative inexperience with the swap meet, the expectations of frequent Bhuz traders, and trading costumes online than it is on her professionalism or reputation in her local community.
It was really helpful for me to read each poster's perspective and suggestions here. Thanks again.